Magic Kingdom losing evening EMHs?

[Brad Bishop]

There are so many ways to look at this subject that it really is fascinating.

For instance, these extra events are a great way to deal with crowding besides just raising standard ticket prices.

I can see a lot of people choosing these events over APs or traditional multi-day options as these are becoming a viable alternative. Especially for long term guests who no longer run from attraction to attraction but rather enjoy the parks at a more leisurely pace.

This has to help with crowding.

I see it as a low-cost/no-cost way of getting more money on the bottom line. By doing nothing (literally) or next to nothing (cupcake party) they can sell something, in this case the parks, and there's little to no capex. It's an easy win.

I mentioned before in a different thread that I thought the "charge by the minute" would be a good way to go. Just charge me for however long I'm in the parks. To me this is far better than a daily ticket, buying the parks three times a day, or even an annual pass. Just charge me for what I use.

I still don't know that I'd go back, as I think the parks have other problems, but I think it's a much better system and, in many ways, it means one less thing you'd have to plan.

It also works for those who would otherwise not be able to take their kids to the parks. Maybe you can't afford a full day but you could afford 6hrs with your kids. That's still a good time.

Everything about charging by the minute seems like a win to me.

 

[Brad Bishop]

So yet another "perk" of staying onsite taken away. Will the onsite hotels really continue to fill up? Parking is no longer free, less (or eventually no) EMH, why in world would anyone continue to pay Disney's ridiculous on-site hotel prices?? How soon till they start offering 60 day fast passes for an extra fee, and 90 day fast passes for an even higher fee? Maybe they can just start holding ebay auctions for the popular fast pass and dining times to see how much they can really get for them??

I think you still have a generation floating out there from the 1990s who'll pay for the nostalgia and nostalgia isn't cheap. The kids who grew up during the 1990s have that "decade of Disney" floating about in their head when all sorts of things were changing and it was all pretty cool. Those people now have kids.

Generationally, I think Disney will hit a few speed bumps as the 2000s weren't great, attendance was down, and there wasn't much going on at the parks (I think we got Mission: Space and Everest). At the same time you have millennials who are an incredibly frugal generation, which is good, unless it's kale or avocado based. Everything else better be free. These are the same people who don't mind living with their parents as long as possible because it's cheaper. This is completely opposite of how it used to be where previous generations couldn't leave their parents soon enough. Still, these aren't going to be huge park-goers.

 

[Brad Bishop]

If a paid Fastpass option is added, that may be the end of me staying onsite. I’m a Hhonors diamond, and the main reason I’ve always stayed onsite has been due to EMH (of which I greatly prefer evenings) and early FP options. It will be far cheaper for me to use points at Bonnet Creek and pay for FP upgrade (if it’s not included with an AP) and a maybe a paid DAH event. I’m not sure Disney is factoring this in, at some point everyone not trapped by DVC is going to go elsewhere and they will lose out on a lot of money. Sure the minimal benifits will keep the moderate and values full but you’re going to lose the deluxe crowd. I can’t believe that 20 years after learning painfully what happens when you yank EMH they are trying to do it again.

I'd bet that the FP gets broken out more.

I think you'll end up with options like:

• Standby line (just normal shmoes waiting in the line)
• FP line with a time window to return - which is really a win for both the guests and the parks
• FP$ which is: You can select the time for your FP for a ride, but at a price. Maybe you pay $5/head to ride Space Mountain between 1PM and 2PM, for example - otherwise it's random. This would allow you to plan your day a little better - it would, but it'd also be a selling point.
• FP$$ - You get a FP for a particular ride that you can ride as many times as you'd like that day - more expensive
• FP$$$ - You get a FP to ride any ride at any time for a sizable sum ($150/head)

All of these would put you in the same FP line as the regular FP but some would make it so you don't have to have your time checked. I could also see "Head of the line" FP$$$ but they already have that with VIP, I think.

Basically they'd slowly build out tiers of FP so that they could charge more for each and because everyone is clamoring to ride a ride on their expensive trip, they'll pay for and defend it.

I have NO inside information so this is all just speculation on my part but, at the same time, it seems like the natural progression of things. I can just imagine WDW execs meeting and discussing new ways to generate no-cost/low-cost revenue and this, too, seems like an easy win.

Building attractions is risky and expensive. Doing this kind of stuff is an obvious business choice. It's the safe choice that results in increased revenue which gets you bonuses and whatnot.

Again, I think there are long-term implications from this but the current folks getting their bonuses because of these ideas will be long gone. It'll essentially be up to someone else to clean it up.

 

[Brad Bishop]

You can join Club 34... it includes all the hard ticket parties...

AND it's one better!

 

[Brad Bishop]

It doesn't seem like they are taking away the benefit. Just shifting time schedules to mornings.

Evening emh has become a bit out of control. Between overcrowding and people lingering it is a mess.

This is another place where "by the minute" (Heck, you could sell this as, "Buy the minute pricing") would really help. You wouldn't get people lingering to try to overstay into the next party/even because it's costing them money. They'd pretty much leave when done because they're no longer trying to squeeze every ounce out of their day ticket.

Something else, with regards to transportation, I think it's only a matter of time until that's monetized. I'm not saying next week or anything.

I think a few years down the road we'll be having the conversation, "First they charged for parking at the resorts, then they started adding resort fees, NOW they're charging for the buses!," and someone else will chime in, "Yeah, but the buses cost money to operate. The drivers have to be paid, the buses fueled and maintained. Also, there's a history with paying to ride the monorail (way back) so it's not like it hasn't been done before."

Right now the resort eats the cost of the buses but at some point I could see them telling the transportation folks, "You're going to have to make yourselves self-sustaining."

Originally the idea was: "Keep people on-site. They stay in Disney hotels, they eat Disney food, and they visit Disney parks." A large part of that effort was the transportation system (buses) which only went between the parks and resorts (and Downtown Disney). EMH was about that. Free Dining was about that. People are staying on site now. That mission was accomplished and the rest can now be monetized. They can now charge for parking, resort fees, and, eventually, transportation.

It takes something that just looks like an expense on a spreadsheet and turns it into a revenue generator.

I don't think the current management sees or values the indirect benefits/problems of their actions but simply looks at it as: This line item is a cost and doesn't generate revenue. How can we remove that cost AND generate revenue. Charging for buses fixes that.

Resort fees, as much as I hate them, are just an easy win. They can point to other resorts and say, "See! It's a standard practice!" They can use those fees to turn costly daily maintenance into a revenue generator. You'd think that the price of the room would cover that but I think that they can convince themselves otherwise.

This is the future of Disney.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Disney vacation has become more of a headache than a nice getaway from reality. You have to make dining reservations and fastpasses months ahead of your trip, you get down here and everything is crowded (the whole year, no more slow season), wait times are a mess, food quality meh, pay for parking at your hotel, etc....

This isn't my #1 reason for no longer going but it is in the top 3. It used to be that you'd go to WDW and the rest of the world would just fade away. You could enjoy yourself inside the park and forget about work or the stuff that needs to be done at home and just feel like you're in an entirely different place. I think that crossing the lagoon in front of the Magic Kingdom even helped with that. All of your problems where somewhere else.

Now? You have to manage your vacation. You have to make sure that you have dining reservations and that you leave wherever you're at at a specific time to make it to them. Then, later, you're scheduled to ride Space Mountain or something else so you had better finish your meal and get going over to the MK! Every minute feels like it has to be planned now. That doesn't entice me.

 

[jt04]

I see it as a low-cost/no-cost way of getting more money on the bottom line. By doing nothing (literally) or next to nothing (cupcake party) they can sell something, in this case the parks, and there's little to no capex. It's an easy win.

I mentioned before in a different thread that I thought the "charge by the minute" would be a good way to go. Just charge me for however long I'm in the parks. To me this is far better than a daily ticket, buying the parks three times a day, or even an annual pass. Just charge me for what I use.

I still don't know that I'd go back, as I think the parks have other problems, but I think it's a much better system and, in many ways, it means one less thing you'd have to plan.

It also works for those who would otherwise not be able to take their kids to the parks. Maybe you can't afford a full day but you could afford 6hrs with your kids. That's still a good time.

Everything about charging by the minute seems like a win to me.

Interesting but my guess is this would not help with merchandising or food and beverage.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Evening emh has become a bit out of control. Between overcrowding and people lingering it is a mess.

You know this to be a fact... how?

 

[jt04]

You know this to be a fact... how?

Mainly reading the complaints from people on these boards and other comments that evening magic hours aren't as magical as they once were.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Mainly reading the complaints from people on these boards and other comments that evening magic hours aren't as magical as they once were.

What complaints? In order to claim that people lingering is a problem, the complaints would have to be from CMs and management. And if people are saying that evening EMH aren't as magical... well, that has nothing to do with people lingering and causing a mess.

Stop making stuff up to support your theories.

 

[jt04]

What complaints? In order to claim that people lingering is a problem, the complaints would have to be from CMs and management. And if people are saying that evening EMH aren't as magical... well, that has nothing to do with people lingering and causing a mess.

Stop making stuff up to support your theories.

I'm not making it up. And there are definitely complaints of overcrowding due to emh drawing guests to a single park in the evenings on these boards.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I'm not making it up. And there are definitely complaints of overcrowding due to emh drawing guests to a single park in the evenings on these boards.

That has nothing to do with 'lingering.'

 

[Tanna Eros]

This isn't my #1 reason for no longer going but it is in the top 3. It used to be that you'd go to WDW and the rest of the world would just fade away. You could enjoy yourself inside the park and forget about work or the stuff that needs to be done at home and just feel like you're in an entirely different place. I think that crossing the lagoon in front of the Magic Kingdom even helped with that. All of your problems where somewhere else.

Now? You have to manage your vacation. You have to make sure that you have dining reservations and that you leave wherever you're at at a specific time to make it to them. Then, later, you're scheduled to ride Space Mountain or something else so you had better finish your meal and get going over to the MK! Every minute feels like it has to be planned now. That doesn't entice me.

The planning overwhelmed me, I'll be honest. With planning, the more people, the more fubar it gets. Getting 35 people to agree on a presentation or meeting is bad enough, but dealing with a whole park of people put me over the edge.

 

[monothingie]

I'm not making it up. And there are definitely complaints of overcrowding due to emh drawing guests to a single park in the evenings on these boards.

That has nothing to do with 'lingering.'

JT is right about overcrowding on evening EMHs compared how it used to be. But wrong on lingering. Getting people out of the park on an EMH evening is no different from a normal closing, or a hard ticket close. You have about an hour to make it Main Street and then you are politely nudged out.

 

[Touchdown]

I welcome a paid FP option, I love Maxpass at DLR. I just hope they realize it may actually cost them money. Because I have Diamond status with Hilton and usually plenty of points I am biased towards staying with them, and they have some really nice properties near the WDW property. You have to give me a really good reason to not stick with them, Universal gives me Express if I stay at their 3 deluxe hotels so I always stay there when I vacation there, morning EMH is not enough to overcome the higher cost at DLR which is why I rarely stay onsite there. If you take away evening EMH and then provide a premium product that gives me better FP access it’s going to be really hard to justify staying onsite, I can deal with driving to the parks to save hundreds dollars on hotel costs, you’re not going to make back that revenue in FP fees.

Pushing me and other higher spenders do spend less money at Disney just seems really foolish.

 

[jt04]

That has nothing to do with 'lingering.'

Naturally many have figured out they can save their shopping, snacking and sometimes projection shows by lingering with the emh crowd. Not saying everyone does this but I have heard it happens. Maybe they are in error but the concept seems likely to me.

This doesn't happen with morning emh of course.

 

[jt04]

JT is right about overcrowding on evening EMHs compared how it used to be. But wrong on lingering. Getting people out of the park on an EMH evening is no different from a normal closing, or a hard ticket close. You have about an hour to make it Main Street and then you are politely nudged out.

how do they know who is who?

 

[monothingie]

how do they know who is who?

What?

 

[jt04]

What?

I don't believe you need a wrist band to get into emh. So how can they tell a day guest from an emh participant to begin the herding process?

 

[monothingie]

I don't believe you need a wrist band to get into emh. So how can the tell a day guest from an emh participant to begin the herding process?

Regular guests who stay into evening EMH can’t do anything other than walk around and shop. Every attraction scans your magic band or card.