Magic Kingdom going FP+ only on 1/14/14

[RSoxNo1]

Why shouldn't guests who stay on site get an advantage. They are giving Disney more money, Disney is giving them more access. I think it makes sense. In any industry and market if you choose to buy a cheaper product, you get less features. So yes, staying off-site means you have to make your selections day of, but you also saved a butt-load of money. What drives me crazy about this discussion is that it seems like everyone wants the system to be designed to benefit their own particular situation the most, and the only one here who gets that privilege is Disney.

Furthermore, to all of those who preferred the old system, I hear you, but it's gone and won't come back and Disney doesn't OWE us anything in that regard. The old system certainly benefited smart guests who did their research and planned ahead, but that isn't the majority of park guests, by a long shot. The new system may not work AS WELL for us in the know, but I think in the long run it will work a LOT better for the general visitor.

Finally, to those who say they hate lines? "Effie, we all got pains." Is there a single person on this board who actually enjoys waiting in line? I don't mean appreciating the details or playing the games or what have you, but is there anyone who would wish for longer waits to get on rides? We all hate lines, EVERYONE hates lines, so keep in mind that one of the goals (whether it will be met or not is to be determined) is that this new system will reduce the total time spent waiting in for EVERYONE, yes individuals may see an increase, but in general the wait time should be reduced.

Don't get me wrong, there are parts of this new system that I like and parts that I don't, but I think the passion some people are exhibiting is a little much.

Does any part of advanced bookings sound like a greater advantage than EMH?

 

[seafoodbuffet]

I just meant I miss the paper passes.

I do too. If the numbers are true and they've spent a billion dollars developing MM+, I wish they put that into the parks themselves. If EE cost $100mil, they could have built 10x EE-like experiences.

Until people get used to FP+ and figure out it's ins and outs, I think there's just going to be a lot of contention and reminiscing about the good 'ole days.

 

[Fractal514]

I wasn't whining or anything, just stating something. No reason to get aggressive.

I just meant I miss the paper passes.

Sorry if my response came off as aggressive. I think that this issue has become heated because of extreme positions on either side driving folks away from the center in response.

 

[Fractal514]

I do too. If the numbers are true and they've spent a billion dollars developing MM+, I wish they put that into the parks themselves. If EE cost $100mil, they could have built 10x EE-like experiences.

Until people get used to FP+ and figure out it's ins and outs, I think there's just going to be a lot of contention and reminiscing about the good 'ole days.

And while I agree with you that will be the tone on the message boards, it certainly isn't what I've encountered with casual fans who have visited. I just spoke with a family this week who visited over the winter break and LOVED the magic bands and MM+ and they didn't know anything about it until they got down there and made all of there picks the day of. The reason they loved it, it came across as an added thing to them, and yes they were aware of the old fastpass system.

 

[ParentsOf4]

The selfishness of this response fascinates me. What you're failing to grasp in this an other posts around the the board where you're expressing the same "Passholders are not worthy" perspective belies Disney's own commitment on this program in April, 2013.

I'm not an AP, but I do understand their concerns. There was a time not that long ago when the locals and AP holders helped Disney through some tough economic times. Now Disney chooses to institute a system that rather than rewarding that loyalty basically thumbs their nose at them. I think I'd be a bit perturbed too.

Well, as you said, no real numbers. But those attending the F&W Festival on the weekend (or the F&G one) are primarily locals, and they're spending plenty.

Expecting companies to have a sense of loyalty to consumers is exactly why people are disappointed. Remember that companies exist to serve their owners and shareholders first, beyond all else.

Corporate Disney is choosing to favor onsite guests not because they've been loyal but exactly because they've been disloyal. Locals are being punished exactly because they've been loyal.

Some basic numbers.

Since 2010, Per Capita Guest Spending (PCGS) is up 25%. That's the amount guests spend at the theme parks. Basically, the theme parks cost 25% more than they did 3 years ago. Yet people keep going. Domestic theme park attendance is up 8% since 2010.

Guests keep coming to the parks no matter what the price.

Conversely, hotel occupancy is down. Since its 2005-2009 peak, the domestic hotel occupancy rate has declined from 89% to 79%. Despite building Art Of Animation, Disney has fewer guests staying onsite today than they did during their peak.

In Disney management's eyes, "guests" are dumb enough to pay whatever the price for the parks. Yet if they don't offer steep discounts, "guests" don't stay at their hotels. That view hits offsites and locals particularly hard.

MyMagic+ is targeted towards onsite guests exactly because onsite guests have been "disloyal" (in corporate Disney's eyes) or smart with their money (in everyone else's eyes). Disney is hoping that by giving additional benefits to onsite guests, they can stop offering all those room discounts and get their occupancy rates back up.

The net effect is that locals are being punished for their loyalty.

 

[seafoodbuffet]

Corporate Disney is choosing to favor onsite guests not because they've been loyal but exactly because they've been disloyal. Locals are being punished exactly because they've been loyal.

Some basic numbers.

Since 2010, Per Capita Guest Spending (PCGS) is up 25%. That's the amount guests spend at the theme parks. Basically, the theme parks cost 25% more than they did 3 years ago. Yet people keep going. Domestic theme park attendance is up 8% since 2010.

Guests keep coming to the parks no matter what the price.

Conversely, hotel occupancy is down. Since its 2005-2009 peak, the domestic hotel occupancy rate has declined from 89% to 79%. Despite building Art Of Animation, Disney has fewer guests staying onsite today than they did during their peak.

In Disney management's eyes, "guests" are dumb enough to pay whatever the price for the parks. Yet if they don't offer steep discounts, "guests" don't stay at their hotels. That view hits offsites and locals particularly hard.

MyMagic+ is targeted towards onsite guests exactly because onsite guests have been "disloyal" (in corporate Disney's eyes) or smart with their money (in everyone else's eyes). Disney is hoping that by giving additional benefits to onsite guests, they can stop offering all those room discounts and get their occupancy rates back up.

The net effect is that locals are being punished for their loyalty.

I don't know about steep discounts on hotels, if they are offering them, I certainly haven't been able to benefit from them. Disney's own 10k seems to imply that they are charging a higher per room/night price for hotels than ever before.

"Revenue growth of 10% at our domestic operations reflected a 5% increase from higher average guest spending and a 4% increase from volume. Increased guest spending was due to higher average ticket prices, food, beverage and merchandise spending, and average daily hotel room rates."

That aside, I understand your point, that MM+ is making it comparatively more attractive to be an onsite guest than ever before and that Disney is motivated to do so. I completely agree with you and it makes sense if you consider that Disney is more like a hotel business with theme parks attached.

Perhaps when APs have access to MDE with advanced FP+ reservations, comparated to onsite guests it won't seem as bad as it is now. We can only speculate about when that will happen.

 

[Andrew C]

I booked a Disney Cruise for April and included a stay at WDW. I am wondering if I will be able to make my FP+ selections prior to arrival like a typical WDW resort guest.

 

[seafoodbuffet]

I booked a Disney Cruise for April and included a stay at WDW. I am wondering if I will be able to make my FP+ selections prior to arrival like a typical WDW resort guest.

If you already have a reservation number for your resort stay, you can login to MDE and link the reservation to your MDE account. Once complete, you should be able to make magicband selections and advanced FP+ reservations.

 

[Andrew C]

If you already have a reservation number for your resort stay, you can login to MDE and link the reservation to your MDE account. Once complete, you should be able to make magicband selections and advanced FP+ reservations.

Thanks. Just added the resort stay today so no reservation number yet. Will have to wait.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I don't know about steep discounts on hotels, if they are offering them, I certainly haven't been able to benefit from them. Disney's own 10k seems to imply that they are charging a higher per room/night price for hotels than ever before.

Last year, Per Room Guest Spending (PRGS) increased from $257 to $267. Is that "a higher per room/night price for hotels than ever before"? Sure. But that's an increase of $10.

Considering the billions of capital Disney has tied up in its 24,000 WDW rooms and 18 resort hotels, that's just pitiful financial performance.

The goal of MyMagic+ is to transfer what I'll call "theme park value" from everyone who visits the theme parks specifically to hotel guests so that Disney can charge onsite guests more for that perceived value. (And waiting in line hours less each day is incredibly valuable.)

WDW's most value asset are its rides and shows. It's why the overwhelming number of guests visit WDW. Without these, WDW would not exist.

The FP+ portion of MyMagic+ allows corporate Disney to take control over how these assets are distributed to patrons, allowing Disney to more effectively monetize these assets.

 

[TP2000]

they are treated as day guests. same day access to fp+ via kiosks.

That seems like a good way to work it. CM's getting their friends and family in for free a dozen or more times per year shouldn't have access to FP+ in advance, to scoop up all the good rides the moment they become available.

If CM's are going to continue to be allowed to get friends and family in for free many times per year, they shouldn't have access to the top tier perks of staying on-site at great expense. It seems like an overly generous offer to give the CM's getting in friends/family for free the same FP+ status as off-property day guests, but I'm glad they aren't taking FP+ advance reservations off the system from on-property paying customers.

 

[TP2000]

....WDW's most valued assets are its rides and shows. It's why the overwhelming number of guests visit WDW. Without these, WDW does not exist.

The FP+ portion of MyMagic+ allows corporate Disney to take control over how these assets are distributed to patrons, allowing Disney to more effectively monetize these assets.

What a brilliantly brief summation of this whole thing. Thank you!

 

[asianway]

No, it's not. Disney does plenty to market and place offers for those coming from outside the area, as they do for the holidays and the Star Wars Weekends at DHS.

You're wrong! Disney loves ME! They do these things for ME!

 

[GoofGoof]

Last year, Per Room Guest Spending (PRGS) increased from $257 to $267. Is that "a higher per room/night price for hotels than ever before"? Sure. But that's an increase of 0.4%!

Considering the billions of capital Disney has tied up in its 24,000 WDW rooms and 18 resort hotels, that's just pitiful financial performance.

The goal of MyMagic+ is to transfer what I'll call "theme park value" from everyone who visits the theme parks specifically to hotel guests so that Disney can charge onsite guests more for that perceived value. (And waiting in line hours less each day is incredibly valuable.)

WDW's most value asset are its rides and shows. It's why the overwhelming number of guests visit WDW. Without these, WDW would not exist.

The FP+ portion of MyMagic+ allows corporate Disney to take control over how these assets are distributed to patrons, allowing Disney to more effectively monetize these assets.

Well said.

I think another big factor is that there is so much more competition for hotel stays. International Drive has grown at an insane pace. Not just the flea bag, flop houses of the olden days but actual resorts with nice pools and big rooms. They need something beyond location to sell the rooms. I'm not saying advanced FP alone is going to sell rooms, but it helps when packaged with DME and the monorail/boats and other benefits. I'm surprised they haven't jacked the parking rates up too.

 

[rudyjr13]

I thought you could book Wishes as one of the options. Going 2/6 and it's not there as an option.

 

[jlsHouston]

Why shouldn't guests who stay on site get an advantage. They are giving Disney more money, Disney is giving them more access. I think it makes sense. In any industry and market if you choose to buy a cheaper product, you get less features. So yes, staying off-site means you have to make your selections day of, but you also saved a butt-load of money. What drives me crazy about this discussion is that it seems like everyone wants the system to be designed to benefit their own particular situation the most, and the only one here who gets that privilege is Disney.

Furthermore, to all of those who preferred the old system, I hear you, but it's gone and won't come back and Disney doesn't OWE us anything in that regard. The old system certainly benefited smart guests who did their research and planned ahead, but that isn't the majority of park guests, by a long shot. The new system may not work AS WELL for us in the know, but I think in the long run it will work a LOT better for the general visitor.

Finally, to those who say they hate lines? "Effie, we all got pains." Is there a single person on this board who actually enjoys waiting in line? I don't mean appreciating the details or playing the games or what have you, but is there anyone who would wish for longer waits to get on rides? We all hate lines, EVERYONE hates lines, so keep in mind that one of the goals (whether it will be met or not is to be determined) is that this new system will reduce the total time spent waiting in for EVERYONE, yes individuals may see an increase, but in general the wait time should be reduced.

Don't get me wrong, there are parts of this new system that I like and parts that I don't, but I think the passion some people are exhibiting is a little much.

I disagree with your reasons for justifying the new FP system. In general I just don't like it much because the limits outweigh the convenience it offers. I happen to be a person who stays onsite...usually deluxe, the vacations I do at Disney cost some bucks and I think Disney spending these kind of dollars to limit anybodys vacations sucks..Th

Ok, first off, I don't think my response is selfish, I am an AP holder, and so this certainly does affect me. I've never said anything about passholders being worthy, simply that they already receive a benefit from their purchase of an AP, in that we get dramatically reduced entry cost per visit. If they choose to open this up to AP's for advance booking, great, but I don't think they "owe us."

I absolutely understand how much money APers contribute towards WDW and that Disney has a strong motivation to make them happy. But... I don't know about you, but I've noticed a decrease in perks for all sorts of programs from AP to DVC members over the years, so it isn't like they aren't willing to do what's best for the bottom line either.

Btw, that family that spends a week a pop, how often do you think they get to visit? Once in a lifetime (in general). I'm ok with them getting better FP+ access, since I'm going to be visiting twice a year or more and will have lots of opportunities to ride everything. You accuse me of being selfish, but in reality, I'm just grateful for the experiences I've had and will continue to have, and don't understand the vitriol people have. Maybe I'm just trying to put out another way of looking at things that isn't about us not getting what we feel we deserve, and more about looking at it from another perspective. But if that makes me selfish and arbitrary, so be it.

Part of the dismay I personally feel towards this MM+ and FP+ crap is the thinking or mindset or business principle behind what I consider a huge sum of capital and brains for the development and implementation of what ? Technology that is going to enhance the bottom line for Disney but gives so little in return and in fact in its earliest days it feels like it it diminishing my park and resort experience? I don't like it. I stay onsite, usually deluxe when I visit, my vacations run me in the high 4, low 5 figure for my family when we come to Disney including travel costs. I happily pay for the bubble, the experience, the all inclusive resort package and the brand. Is the brand no longer a fun, safe, clean, family time for all? Is the brand now truly going to be a class system of who is onsite at at what onsite resort will determine your accessibility to park attractions?
I don't like it. I think it sucks to turn Disney into that sort of a place. I think it is practically un american.

I too am grateful for the opportunities that my hard work and efforts have allowed me and mine the good fortune to be able to afford several nice trips to disney annually. I never want to be in a space where I casually shrug off another's limited opportunites to do the same. Call me stupid or naive but I would hope a once in lifetime trip to the world would and could be as magical for another family whether they accomplished onsite in value, moderate, or deluxe, or at an off site location.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The FP+ portion of MyMagic+ allows corporate Disney to take control over how these assets are distributed to patrons, allowing Disney to more effectively monetize these assets.

The only thing more effective for monetizing rides and shows is charging admission specifically for them. If FP+ doesn't deliver as expected in this area, a virtual version of the old ticket books sounds like the next logical step. The infrastructure is there, and a "pay-as-you-play" model is easy to market.

 

[jlsHouston]

sorry about the typos and the tirade....I'm actually in a hotel room with only this netbook which has a severe keyboard problem as a result of something wet having been spilled...but for all my lousy typing my moaning about MM+ is because I really do have a distaste for the changes underway. My rather costly Thanksgiving vacation was negatively impacted by MM+. It appears my future trips to Disney will be too with legacy FP no longer available.

 

[jrlbc06]

My thought about having to choose 3 FP+ instead of only 1 or 2 is that it will decrease the amount of FP available to others who might actually want a FP for that attraction. I don't understand why the system forces you to choose 3.

Adds another step but if it really bothers you, you can cancel the third as soon as you confirm your reservations.

 

[Fractal514]

sorry about the typos and the tirade....I'm actually in a hotel room with only this netbook which has a severe keyboard problem as a result of something wet having been spilled...but for all my lousy typing my moaning about MM+ is because I really do have a distaste for the changes underway. My rather costly Thanksgiving vacation was negatively impacted by MM+. It appears my future trips to Disney will be too with legacy FP no longer available.

For clarity, I completely get and appreciate how this system will be a less enjoyable system than the previous system, for some. My argument is that I think the majority of guests, however, will find the new system better. I have to believe that Disney feels this way as well, because in order for it to make money people will have to like using it and use it fully.