Look,, if WDW is this crowded.. the OPEN A FIFTH PARK...

[JMcMahonEsq]

well if for political or what ever reason.. my thoughts here still stand.. Disney should break ground on the fifth park NOW.. now is the time to strike .. for what ever reasons.. including you may not be able to in the future.. get the ground open NOW..

Wait, so based upon an uncertain market, potential unfriendly legislation and government, your idea is to rush in and throw billions of dollars of new construction now?

 

[jloucks]

we are all complaining about the disney Greedy and Bob Cheapskate.. and ol' Bob says.. hey if you are gonna come then you are gonna pay for it.. Well if you want to relieve OVER CROWDING. OPEN ANOTHER PARK.. if you start today.. it can be open in a year.. IF YOU WANT TO DO IT.. Epcot was built in just over a year.. Magic Kingdom, in a year.. in the past.. it was we can't build it, its a recession.. we couldn't build it last year. it was covid.. well guess what.. no recession and covid has cut way back, and you have more money then GOD...and they are bringing more in ..in dump trucks each and every day.. BUILD ANOTHER PARK.. No excuse now..

You could add 10 parks to WDW and it would actually make things worse. (research "induced demand", or simply embrace "build it, and they will come". There are 7,888,000,000 people most of which would like to visit the park(s).

Miserable conditions caused by overcrowding are a natural limiter to demand. What happens if you increase supply (parks) for something with almost limitless demand? Yea, just bigger crowds. The world is a big place and WDW is a global destination because of all there is to do.

Maybe, just maybe, more parks in OTHER places might help a little. Someplace in the Central U.S. for example.

The biggest one will always be a problem tho, since global travelers will visit that one.

 

[jloucks]

Building a fifth park won’t aid in crowding.

It would actually make the crowding worse because there would be even more demand.

There are only two ways to alleviate overcrowding, and one of them (raising ticket prices) has been proven ineffective.

The rules of economics say that at some point, price will impact demand. They just haven't raised the prices high enough yet.

We may be seeing this with Starcruiser. ...assuming all the complaining about price is what is actually reducing demand.

Personally, I think it is the lack of "replayability". It is basically a LARP show. ..the same one every time.

 

[jloucks]

How do you plan to staff it?

You pay a LOT to compete with everything else. The cheap labor model just doesn't work anymore.

But your point is totally valid.

 

[jloucks]

WDW wants the parks to always feel crowded, to help keep the perception of very high demand and manipulate guests into buying tons of add-ons like G+, DAH, holiday parties, onsite, deluxe, dessert parties, etc. People typically rationalize these extra costs as a premium to avoid the worst crowds. Sure WDW is actually a high demand destination but I’m convinced they finagle park operations, staff, park hours, and discounts to keep WDW in a very consistent ‘feels crowded‘ pattern.

Very logical hypothesis.

The only counter argument would be that the big spenders (I consider myself one) aren't willing to mess with the crowds to get to any perks.

Maybe if all the add-ons worked easily. Maybe. When we were there last march it was all a hot mess and there was definitely no unlimited pay-to-play option apart from what came with Starcruiser.

 

[Wilbret]

Regarding staffing, if you are building a park from ground-up, you could certainly design around staffing a little bit.
Parking decks instead of parking lots.
Run the gates like self-checkout at retail, one person oversees 6 terminals or more from a device.
Automate foodservice as much as possible.
Trash can compactors like at airports that reduce the need to empty as much
On-site dormitories for college program
On-site hotels to reduce transportation needs
Landscape design that is more hands-free

and so on.

 

[Skibum1970]

Probably already been mentioned but the focus should be on increasing capacity in the current parks before considering a fifth gate. Studio and AK are woefully underutilized at this point and even Epcot could use more rides. Yes, the parks are crowded but I would try to even out the crowds across the parks by adding more rides before needing to begin looking at a new park. Really, all that would happen is you would have one fully developed park (MK), and four parks that are underbuilt.

 

[Ayla]

Regarding staffing, if you are building a park from ground-up, you could certainly design around staffing a little bit.
Parking decks instead of parking lots.
Run the gates like self-checkout at retail, one person oversees 6 terminals or more from a device.
Automate foodservice as much as possible.
Trash can compactors like at airports that reduce the need to empty as much
On-site dormitories for college program
On-site hotels to reduce transportation needs
Landscape design that is more hands-free

and so on.

You mean, keep doing exactly what they're currently doing?

 

[Andrew25]

It's all about attraction capacity and making appropriate changes to accommodate crowds like the hub at MK for firework viewing (which arguably should be expanded).

The parks are also not efficient in the space they use currently. Disneyland is an exception as they use every inch of that park.

There is no excuse for Animal Kingdom, 25 years old now, to feature fewer attractions than a park that won't be open for another 2 years (Epic Universe). Disney is a very lucky company that can get away with a lot of things.

 

[Wilbret]

You mean, keep doing exactly what they're currently doing?

Which Disney Park has a parking deck?
Which Disney Park has an onsite hotel? (not "on property")
etc etc

Edited to clarify if not clear. Hotels that are connected to a park. Not adjacent, not connected via transportation. Like the kind where you can possibly have a view into the park from your window. ;-) That would be fun.

 

[Lilofan]

My Texas family would disagree, but I guess it depends on where in Texas. They find summers in Georgia and Florida to be unbearable. They prefer a "dry heat," lol.

I do love seeing all the drenched northerners looking miserable at the parks... at the gate. It's gonna be a long day, buddy...

Some are not used to 79 degree weather at 5am. That dry heat in Houston of 105 degrees in August melted me in little time.

 

[bjlc57]

i am just saying ..reading the business sections of some papers.. THIS IS THE WAY FOR DISNEY MANAGEMENT TO GO.. to combat the current takeover of the Reedy Creek board.. this may be something that puts more control for the Disney company for the next 4 years or more.. you have to consider the complete picture ..and that one is that its the GOLDEN RULE.. and he who has the gold MAKES ALL THE RULES.. and right now that is in play.. who's gonna make the rules for WDW in the future.. i would really like to hear some of the board insiders on this one.. and as a stock holder.. i want to know that my investment, is going to be controlled by the Disney company and NOT SOME ONE ELSE..

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Which Disney Park has a parking deck?
Which Disney Park has an onsite hotel? (not "on property")
etc etc

Edited to clarify if not clear. Hotels that are connected to a park. Not adjacent, not connected via transportation. Like the kind where you can possibly have a view into the park from your window. ;-) That would be fun.

If you don't have the staff to properly man the parks you have currently to full capacity, it doesn't matter how well designed your new park is, you're going to have labor problems.

Leaving aside the feasibility of your off the cuff suggestions, it's not like low labor design of a new park is taking what will be the need for hundreds/thousands of new jobs, and reducing it down to a drastically by percentage lower amount. You are in a saturated market, and another competitor is opening up a brand new park which will also be looking for hundreds/thousands of new employees. Finding the bodies you need to man a brand new park isn't going to go away.

As to the hotel ideas, you have plenty of properties that allow you to just walk to the parks. Contemporary comes to mind. If your building a new hotel you need all the support and operation staff for the hotel, for the restaurants and shops in the hotel, for the pool and maintenance and landscaping and garbage service for the hotel. Not having to hire a couple new bus drivers to deal with transport to/from park isn't going to move the needle at all when looking at the labor problems staffing a brand new hotel would bring.

 

[FettFan]

The rules of economics say that at some point, price will impact demand. They just haven't raised the prices high enough yet.

We may be seeing this with Starcruiser. ...assuming all the complaining about price is what is actually reducing demand.

Personally, I think it is the lack of "replayability". It is basically a LARP show. ..the same one every time.

Agreed. The Disney Company dreamed this up as a massive roleplaying simulation where the guest choices and actions would lead to various twists and turns in the narrative....but you just can't do that on a continual basis.

It always falls back to the default performance, and just like Mission Space, all those fancy buttons and switches don't actually *do* anything.

 

[Wilbret]

As to the hotel ideas, you have plenty of properties that allow you to just walk to the parks.

Plenty? I will have to disagree on this one.
Contemporary - deluxe
Boardwalk/BC/YC - deluxe and to the 2nd maybe 3rd tier park
It's a stretch for many to say Poly/GF, but they are also deluxe.
Swan/Dolphin - sort of, ish, but also deluxe-ish

Most people will never stay or even consider those locations. This board isn't most people.

 

[Minthorne]

How do you plan to staff it?

mostly humans

 

[J4546]

First they need to expand DHS and redo the entire NW quadrant. The animation courtyard/launch bay building and everything else behind it gone. Make a massive new expansion with a pathway that loops back to sunset. That would give DHS a much better dual looping layout and such a better experience overall

 

[erasure fan1]

Probably already been mentioned but the focus should be on increasing capacity in the current parks before considering a fifth gate. Studio and AK are woefully underutilized at this point and even Epcot could use more rides.

It has, but in my opinion, is by far the best answer. And to add to this, if Disney can't manage to keep up with the 4 parks they have. How could anyone expect that adding a 5th would make anything better? Build out the 4 parks you have, so they all match the magic kingdom.

 

[BlakeW39]

What would a fifth park even be? Disney+ World?

 

[networkpro]

How do you plan to staff it?

Find out where the Oompa Loompa live and get them visas stat!