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Long live the Eastern Gateway or how I learned to love the Anaheim City Council after the election.
- Thread starter truecoat
- Start date
MoonRakerSCM
Well-Known Member
Kind of a random thought, but related to the eastern gateway... has there been any whispers in dark alleys of Disney snatching up property on Harbor if things go even further south than they already are and businesses begin to falter and walk away?
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Disney has not bought any new Anaheim properties in 2020, unless the sale was not recorded, which can't happen.
Are they watching the market? Of course they are, along with many other investors.
The Newport Beach Marriott just was sold.
Newport Beach Marriott Hotel sells for $216 million
Newport Marriott had an average room rate of $203 last year when it was 79% full.
www.ocregister.com
Sharon&Susan
Well-Known Member
I was excited when that rumor came out of Turtle Talk was moving to Pixar Pier. Was hoping it meant a major renovation for the Animation building or even something completely new (maybe a new C Ticket dark ride or Sci-Fi Drive In).
That never happened like just like the many concepts for Hollywoodland that would strengthen the theme, instead of just another tie-in to next summer's blockbuster.
Oh well.
el_super
Well-Known Member
What would be the point of centralizing parking to the east side of the resort, if they gave up the land for the third gate?
The eastern gateway project made sense in the context of providing more parking, locating parking close to their expansion space, and freeing up expansion space for DCA. If two of those three objectives are removed, they can just figure out a way to move the transportation center to free up expansion space for DCA and save a lot of money.
The Eastern Gateway isn't about the 3rd gate, it's about moving the security checkpoint and guest drop off. It's about replacing parking lost from a Gene Autry extension and keeping guest traffic closer to the highway which I think is very important. You would now have a northern approach parking site and a southern approach parking site.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but it would be a LOT of money to spend, just to increase parking capacity. It makes sense to spend the money if you are achieving multiple goals, and moving parking closer to your southern property is a big part of that if your long term plan includes utilizing that space for a third park. If it's just a matter of moving the bus depot and security, and adding parking capacity, that can all be achieved for far cheaper by utilizing the space on the western side of the resort.
The value of that property to Disney, is contingent on utilizing the property for the third gate. I'd suspect that's also why it has sat mostly unused for decades now, despite Disney's ownership.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
Isn’t any talk of a “third gate” just armchair Imagineering?
At the rate Disney is going, we have about as much chance of getting a third park as we would getting A Bug’s Land back.
At the rate Disney is going, we have about as much chance of getting a third park as we would getting A Bug’s Land back.
SplashGhost
Well-Known Member
After how low the crowds were for Galaxy's Edge opening year and how grim things look for the near future of the parks, they will have no need for the Eastern Gateway for several years, possible even a couple of decades.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Once again, the Security Check HAS to be moved, and you might as well move the Transportation Plaza at the same time.
As I mentioned earlier, the Pummba parking structure can be built at a later date.
But since Disney has a friendly council currently, unlike 2014, they might as well get the approval done through the Planning Commission and City Council.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Disney bought the Strawberry Field with the knowledge it would be used for expansion, but only for parking initially, due to it being zoned for Agricultural use.
They also knew that the City planned to take control of the portion of land needed for the Gene Autry expansion, which would also help Disney get more vehicles off I-5 to the resort area.
Expansion means Hotels and other uses, not just for a Theme Park.
In fact, in the 1990's and early 2000's, there was talk for more Hotels on the land, as DCA had room to spare, and folks talked about using Simba for park use instead of Toy Story, to keep the parks together, and that Hotel Guests could use the WDW model of bus and other transit to the Theme Park area.
In fact, I know of no actual plans for a third park, just very generic thoughts.
And for regional traffic flow, you have to look at both Southbound I-5 traffic, which pours right into the M&F/Pixar Pals Structures.
But Northbound I-5 is a much different matter. The Western side access is very poor. The main option is using the Harbor Blvd. exit, then quickly having to get into the far left lane to turn onto Ball Road, and then a left onto Disneyland Drive to get to the structures.
The cars from South Orange County, San Diego, etc. are sent off on Disney Way, both from the regular lanes, plus the Carpool lanes. The plan was to send them to the Pummba Structure, keeping cars off of the City Streets for the most part. But Disney decided to delay construction of the structure.
You must somehow accommodate that traffic from regions south of the DLR, and Toy Story/Bullseye is the current solution.
Back in 2001, it was to use the Harbor and Disney Way entrance (now the Toy Story Bus entrance), and park vehicles next to DCA or at Simba.
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mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Yeah the eastern gateway expansion in 5 + years is the best we can hope for and if that’s most likely more Marvel then yawn.
Unless it’s a coaster.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Makes sense but even if they move the Transpo plaza they don’t necessarily have to start the DCA expansion for a long time. And that’s fine with me. Wait til Chapek and Iger are gone.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Yes, the priorities are better Security screening location. Disney was already screening at Toy Story/Bullseye on busier days, to cut down on unscreened guests neat the Main Entrance Plaza/Ticket Booths.
The only practical option that gives the same amount of distance as the Western Check areas at the Structures and near the DLH, is to build a bridge and use the land off Manchester.
That does require moving the Transportation Plaza to drop off guests near the Security Check.
So working on Hotel Access at the east end of their properties to the new security check and new pedestrian crosswalks.
That is all that needs to be done in Phase A.
Toy Story/Bullseye can continue security checks prior to boarding the buses.
I presume Disney would come up with a low cost refurb of the Transportation Plaza to look nice, even if it is basically not used for anything.
Building more parking really doesn't have to happen until they start to actually build on the new expansion area, increasing park capacity, and therefore more demand for parking.
So let's say that the Planning Commission goes through in 2022, actual construction of the bridge wouldn't need to happen until 2025.
But at least Disney has the right to build the project without worries.
el_super
Well-Known Member
That really doesn't make sense. If the Gene Autry expansion cuts the strawberry field in half, the land is useless to Disney. The cost of sinking the street and dividing up the property, makes it impossible to make the financials of a third gate work on that site.
The value of the land is in it being a large contiguous block.
Well like I said, it is all pretty moot. It's extremely doubtful that Disney will build a third park in Anaheim anytime in our lifetimes.
Disney won't spend the money required for a new structure and bridge, just to make things slightly more convenient for people from San Diego.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
But the new Security Check is Needed, and that is for many of the off-property Hotel guests who walk to the reports using Harbor Blvd, use ART, other shuttles, Uber, Lyft, etc. And to move the Security Check, you need the Bridge and Transportation Plaza.
With the 2028 Olympics, many folks will stay outside the Resort Area, but will be using Trains and other vehicles to the ARTIC Station, and then transit to the Transportation Plaza area to visit the DLR. Those guests need the extra room the new Manchester area provides. Heck, look at how busy the Taxi/Uber/Lyft/passenger drop off area was pre-COVID. When things get back to normal, it will just get worse, and it has no way to expand in its current location.
And buying the Strawberry Field allowed enough parking to expand DCA from the 2001 size, to adding Cars Land, and now Avengers Campus. The Strawberry Field was a good investment, without even factoring in the Third Park.
The city will pay Disney Fair Market Value for the land they need, which will create better access to the land Disney keeps. It has basically already paid for itself.
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el_super
Well-Known Member
The new security check isn't needed because the capacity won't be there, potentially for years.
You're incorrectly assuming that the situation from 2017, that defined the needs for having additional parking and security on the eastern side of the resort, is still the same. It isn't. They spent the money to build additional parking on the west side of the resort, and increase security capacity on the west side of the resort. Yes, they may have preferred to have additional capacity on the eastern side, but what is done, is done. They will need to maximize their investment on the parking and security on the western side, and again, they won't just abandon their investment to make things more convenient for drivers from San Diego.
That's seriously debatable. They absolutely bought that land to be a third park, and not a parking lot. When DCA opened, they made vague promises of having a third park there by 2008. The Toy Story lot opened in 2009, and it only came about because it was cheaper to build more surface parking than to commit to a structure. If they didn't have that property, they would have been forced to build a structure 10 years ago.
There's no point for Disney to keep the land if it's cut in half. What do you think the fair market value for a third park would be?
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Look, the distance from the current Eastern Check to the parks and entrance gates is too close in the opinion of let alone Disney Security, but of many Law Enforcement groups at the local, state and Federal levels, including DHS.
They feel too many unscreened guests can get too close. Also the vehicles in the Transportation Plaza, which could be carrying explosives.
Years ago, they moved all non-ART vehicles to drop off next to the OCTA/LA Metro bus stop, basically as far as possible in the current setup.
ART bus yards are inspected regularly, ART employees are security screened as part of the hiring process, etc.
But the point is that the DLR Security Bubble needs to be expanded.
It was one of the reasons the public sidewalk was planned to be removed on the west side of Harbor from Manchester to Disney Way, along with re-routing the Public Buses to Manchester.
They feel too many unscreened guests can get too close. Also the vehicles in the Transportation Plaza, which could be carrying explosives.
Years ago, they moved all non-ART vehicles to drop off next to the OCTA/LA Metro bus stop, basically as far as possible in the current setup.
ART bus yards are inspected regularly, ART employees are security screened as part of the hiring process, etc.
But the point is that the DLR Security Bubble needs to be expanded.
It was one of the reasons the public sidewalk was planned to be removed on the west side of Harbor from Manchester to Disney Way, along with re-routing the Public Buses to Manchester.
el_super
Well-Known Member
So your position is that Disney has allowed a unsafe situation to sit unaddressed for over three years now?
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
And Disney can opt to help the city place the Gene Autry way for most part underground if Disney wants the entire parcel kept together.
But you could build a Hotel or Two on the Southern section, catering to the Convention Center and the parks, then use the combination of Bullseye and the Northern part of Toy Story to build a parking structure to service the New Hotels, the Theme Parks and even some CM parking.
As for a third park, it isn't even being talked about in the Blue Sky phase. Only further expansion of DL and DCA, using land under the current DLSP zoning, allowing Disney to do anything they want, basically requiring more backstage and parking on land outside the DLSP.
But you could build a Hotel or Two on the Southern section, catering to the Convention Center and the parks, then use the combination of Bullseye and the Northern part of Toy Story to build a parking structure to service the New Hotels, the Theme Parks and even some CM parking.
As for a third park, it isn't even being talked about in the Blue Sky phase. Only further expansion of DL and DCA, using land under the current DLSP zoning, allowing Disney to do anything they want, basically requiring more backstage and parking on land outside the DLSP.