Little Mermaid on Broadway goes dark in less than a week.

[lightboy]

And I'm sure in your line of business you have worthless employees as well. Who doesn't? I'd love for you to name one....union OR non-union line of business that does not have worthless employees on their payroll. You'll never get rid of them...there will always be some.

Again, it is clear you have no reasonable backing to your accusations or arguments.

Do us all a favor. Drop this. Continue watching your favorite movies, tv shows, and stage shows...and be completely blinded into what actually happens behind the scenes. What you see can't hurt you, right?

 

[wannab@dis]

And I'm sure in your line of business you have worthless employees as well. Who doesn't? I'd love for you to name one....union OR non-union line of business that does not have worthless employees on their payroll. You'll never get rid of them...there will always be some.

Again, it is clear you have no reasonable backing to your accusations or arguments.

Do us all a favor. Drop this. Continue watching your favorite movies, tv shows, and stage shows...and be completely blinded into what actually happens behind the scenes. What you see can't hurt you, right?

Actually, yes, I've had worthless employees.... And I fired them. I got rid of them and hired the best I could find. Paid them better than average wages and have top notch people.

Do you own or manage a company? Or do you just pay dues to someone making bank off all the workers?

Or, could it be that you are the one that profits from the workers? :lookaroun:

just spent hundreds of dollars on "over" face-value tickets for The Little Mermaid, for the end of the month.

Yes. I just paid hundreds of dollars for two LM tickets at the end of the month.

Why are you so scared of letting a little light in on the subject? Want some more information... Here, don't take my word, read what another successful businessman thinks.

http://www.inc.com/magazine/20050201/nbrodsky.html

http://www.inc.com/magazine/20050301/nbrodsky.html

Where's your article in INC magazine?

 

[lightboy]

Oh no. I definitely pay dues to my Union. It prevents me, as a quality lighting programmer and designer, from getting cut out due to downsizing or outsourcing to less skilled individuals.

Once again, you CANNOT compares entertainment unions to the rest of the unions in the country. That alone...AGAIN, shows your ignorance. I promise every single one of your favorite actors holds a Union card in their wallets. They serve their purpose in the entertainment industry.

INC. Hmmm. Interesting, IATSE provided stage technicians and stage hands for their corporate conventions.

Throw another one.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Regardless of views on Unions, there is no question that BOTH sides are handling this poorly. I was in NYC on Saturday and received the pamplets that Local One is sorry that the shows are cancelled, when I know, in fact, they are not. No one has taken the theatregoers into account with this strike, and it is no mistake that the strike was not really announced and started on a Saturday morning, giving the producers 1 week to settle if they want to salvage their very profitable Thanksgiving Week. The union found the perfect timing to cost the producers as much as possible to force a settlement, and in doing so, have screwed over a lot of theatregoers. The only problem they may find is that Broadway has increasingly become a tourist destination, and by cancelling shows, they are turning away people who spent a LOT of money to come to New York and stay in an expensive hotel room. That's a bad group of people to alienate, so I would echo someone else's concern in this thread--if this strike lasts much longer, it will kill any under-performing shows and they may need to work very hard to attract more theatregoers. They really cannot afford to have this strike go on much longer--and I guess that's the point in holding it now. That said, from the theatregoer's perspective, it is a little (okay, a lot) annoying that both sides have still yet to meet to discuss contracts. Both sides need to either grow up or stop lying. I'd like to see a press release from Local One along the lines of "we, in fact, do not care about the theatregoers and simply want to protect our own families." Which would be fine. Understandable, even. I would expect them to care about their own families most. Just don't lie to me with absurd fliers. Of course, I'm a little biased--I'm planning on proposing to my girlfriend next week on stage at Spring Awakening...if there is any Spring Awakening.

 

[PKD]

Of course, I'm a little biased--I'm planning on proposing to my girlfriend next week on stage at Spring Awakening...if there is any Spring Awakening.

Thread drift:

Look at you growing up!! Congrats. I'll have to IM you for a summer catch up

 

[Adison Belle]

lol at a company offering 150% compensation.... the majority of corporate America doesnt even wanna pay you 70%... let alone 100% of what your worth. Thats why unions are in place. It helps keep things in balance.

THANK YOU!!! There's a whole lot more I want to say, but I wanna be nice and not cause a fight that a moderator would have to come between. So I will just say thank you to you for using your head and nothing else. :zipit:

 

[songbird]

I'm just curious how this turned into a debate on the merit of unionization vs. the use of non-union workforce. :shrug:

I will express no opinion on the meirts of the strike, I don't know enough about either side's position, but as an avid theater-goer I am just saddened that the situation deteriorated to the point where a strike became a reality. What a boon, though, for those theaters not part of this contract, and for off-Broadway houses. and a shame for business in the theater district who rely on theater patrons for their income.

let us all hope that it gets resolved quickly, since no one in the theater district can afford to lose the $$$ spent by holiday tourists!

 

[majortom1981]

I worked backstage on victor victoria for one show. What I saw the stage hands doing (well lack of doing ) was horrible and a huge waste of money.

Also why not do a rolling strike? This is impacting the whole city not just the shows. There are lots of people who are being effected by this who are not on unions.

Thats why I think they are selfish for striking. Plus why strike when some if not al ot of your employees wont have a show to go back to? The less popular shows will have to close down .They are already saying some shows like the spelling be will close earlier then expected.

I will not go into anymore detail on what i saw going on back stage. I would be called a liar even though I am not. (yes it was the real tour)

 

[KingStefan]

I have family in the entertainment industry. And one of the common jokes is: how many IATSE workers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
I don't know, how many were there on day one of load-in?
27.
Well, that's how many, then, and you have to pay them for at least four hours.

I'm not intimately familiar with the strike issues. I know the LATP's side, because they have posted their issues on their web site. But I can't find the IATSE side anywhere. Does anybody know where I can read about their stance on the issues? I can't find it on local one's web site (www.iatselocalone.org).

 

[lightboy]

Then you would also know then because you "worked" backstage, that most times it is not what we DO when we are paid. It is how we react under pressure to keep the show up and running, when things go wrong. We have a running theatre skillset that can react quickly to problems.

I'm not going to lie, I'll give you a real world scenerio. I sit at a lighting desk either hitting cues or just watching a computer take cues on their own to a timecode feed. Everyone always tells me, "I can do that!!! You're not doing anything, and I'm sweating my butt off!!!". But it's when lighting consoles fail, crash, or other equipment fails to work properly...and how I react, to make me get paid what I get paid. Because if the lights go out...the guests go home...and refunds go out. Then you're STILL complaining.

Because you don't understand the profession that I am in, and what we do, does not qualify you to make the arguments you make. But I promise you that you'll be the first person to start boo-ing if the show goes down because of technical difficulties...and lack of a qualified technical staff to get the show back up. "What a crappy production" would probably be rolling through your head.

Shows will not close down, everyone said the same thing after the musicians strike, and Broadway barely blinked. They keep PLENTY of funds for things such as this. I sincerely doubt this will last as long as the musicians strike.

I do hope, after the appropriate amount of time has gone by, that they ARE able to go back to the tables AND BOTH negotiate effectively. I would NOT however say that both sides are WRONG for not being at the table this very minute. Things are hectic right now, and they need to settle down before table talks can continue in a positive and effective manner.

Yes, theatre-goers will be hurt. You know what...I am a theatre-goer as well as a technician...and I'm feeling it too.

ISTC, I think you're false in saying that the Local is not hurting as well. There's thousands of people not getting paychecks this week. I'm assuming you think that no matter what, when the League is in absolute deadlock on not bargaining at all...that the Union should just give in. Unfortunately, that's NOT what a Union is for. If we let other people walk all over ourselves, the world wouldn't be what it is today (not that it is anything of a worthy cause at the moment either).

 

[lightboy]

King Stefan-

Yes, many pages. Google Iatse Strike. There's plenty.
However, for BOTH sides, don't believe everything you read. There is much embellishment and media "explosion" at the moment.

For everyone else...
Here's what we do...might give you some insight.

http://flyingmoose.org/stage/stage.htm

 

[TOTGuy]

Fire them all... hire non-union workers at 150% compensation. Get rid of the unions.

They had their place decades ago... but not now. Now, they are just legalized blackmail and extortion rackets. By the way, who wins with unions? The workers, nope... the leaders. Who loses? the workers and the employers.

I personally agree with getting rid of the unions. I am not allowed in a Union because I am a seasonal employee, and because of that I can not make line bids, move attractions, receive cross-training...etc. It is monumentally frustrating to those of us who want to make the magic but can't because bureacracy is getting in the way. Because of this I am at Living with The Land and I have little to no opportunity of moving within my area because I have no seniority. The only way I can get something new is to transfer to another area. Which is also based on seniority. I understand that Unions are "looking out for us" but come on! Money comes out of union member's paychecks so that we can receive a dollar raise? I'm sick of unions...though I do respect stagehands as I have myself been in theatrical productions. They work the most actors and receive the least credit. Please give them what they deserve so the show can go on...now!!!!

 

[lightboy]

For everyone...the League's main selling points. And common industry responses in red.

It takes a few minutes to move a piano, but we are forced to pay stagehands for four hours of work. As a result, over the course of a year, many stagehands add another $50,000 dollars to their six figure salaries from moving pianos or mopping floors. This is an industry-wide contracted practice. "Minimum four hour calls" prevent employers from nickel and diming workers by only contracting them to come in for "30 minutes" or "1 hour" in which is a complete waste of a workers (free-lancers) time. Now what they are not telling you, is that these stagehands can also be assigned to do other work during that 4-hour-call...not JUST move pianos. So do you think its fair to only pay a professional stagehand 30 minutes worth of work to move around set-pieces and equipment? WOULD YOU work for only a 30 minute call?
Head Electricians earn a six figure salary, but their contract only permits them to work a total of 80 minutes a week. I do believe this refers to actual physical labor, hanging lights, etc. The rest of the time, they are doing paperwork and running crews. The league would rather this person be one of the workers, instead of one of the delegators. Which doesn't work during a lighting load-in, I can tell you that. That's how things get circuited wrong, because there isn't an overall person in charge.
A flyman making $160,000 annually in salary and benefits is required for all productions, even when there is no fly cue in the production and no flyman is needed. A flyman is a respected discipline just as an audio engineer, or lighting programmer. A head flyman (ones making 6 figures) are also responsible for all overhead safety on the grid above the stage. This rule doesn't apply to spaces that do not have fly-houses. Do keep in mind, even though there are no fly cues in the show...hundreds of lighting instruments ARE kept on battons above the stage. These do need to be flown in regularly, sometimes during a performance (intermission) for emergency lamp changes for critical show specials.
We are required to keep the same number of workers loading in a show as hired on day one for the entire load-in process regardless of how many workers are subsequently needed. IATSE should be able to bend a little on this. I'm curious why this hasn't been handled. However, this usually isn't a problem anyway, as load-ins are regularly scheduled to use the same amount of bodies in a certain amount of time. The only thing about this, is that close to show-opening time in a load-in, that usually means crunch time, however theatres then are not willing to put in the labor. Unfortunately, this means many overworked...around-the-clock individuals picking up the scraps to get the show open by opening day.

 

[majortom1981]

hmm

Lightboy I have done backstage . The only broadway professional play was victory victoria but I have done many College plays. I have done props, lighting ,sound and set design. When I was doing victor victoria the backstage crew were driving a remote control car around the backstage area while the show was going on. The actors waiting in the wings also joined in.

So dont tell me I dont know what I am talking about. Also if you really want to stick up for yourself then tell us what your salary is.

I have done All the technical parts of theater. This strike was not planned out very well and could have been a rolling strike. that would have gotten the point across and not cost the city itself millions in lost revenue and had non union people in things like restaurants without money and jobs.

Also lightboy so you are saying these people making 160k a year deserve to make even more money? They already make more the nyc cops,firemen,ems workers. People who save lives for a living.

 

[Eyorefan]

Lightboy, thank you for posting the arguments and counter arguments. It seems to me like the producers are asking for what most companies ask for in contract negotiations, they want to be able to decide for themselves who does what work when. I don't see that as being too harsh. JMHO*





*For full discloser: I am a labor paralegal for a large firm. Most of the work I do involves helping large Companies deal with their unions.

 

[jakeman]

Wow, I need to quit my desk job and go be a flyman. That's over twice what I make and it sounds like about a fourth of the responsibility.

You'll get no sympathy from me on this issue or any union strike issue. Any organization that attempts to cut its own nose off to spite its face is fundamentally flawed.

If this threat comes true that some shows will close early because of lack of funds, where does that put the workers? To me, it seems like it puts them in the unemployment line with nothing but the satisfaction that they "stuck it to man" for 15 minutes.

But then again, I have not been enlightened by a union, so I could be wrong.

Slightly back on topic, I can't imagine this would affect any of the Disney show except for the duration of the strike, which stinks, but is not horrible.

 

[askmike1]

And all this has anything to do with "WDW Parks News and Rumors"......... how?

 

[tnemgif]

I am a high school techy and know quite a bit about professional tech crew and production. I have worked with top-class production managers and equipment. My jobs have ranged from lifting industry basketball hoops solo, changing 500 light bulbs, washing 800 chairs, and extinguishing a curtain fire. Which is nowhere near the difficulties faced by professional stage hands. But, overall, I must disagree with the strike. A six figure salary is way too much for a stage hand salary. Sure, we techies seldomly get the thanks or glory we deserve, but we often pompously over emphasize the importance of our jobs. In reality, tech crew is a low skill, low training job that most intelligent people could easily pick up most aspects of. A well-seasoned, well-trained techy is much more skilled than a novice, but in no way deserves a six figure salary. Stage hands are almost always pompous jerks who believe everyone else is completely ignorant of their trade (*cough, cough*) but are overall good and willing workers. These stagehands need to understand the impact that they are having and the selfishness of their cause (sure, the corporate executives are more selfish, but that's not going to change). So, all in all, if anyone cares, I say toughen up and go back to representing the tech crew community as the unsung heros that we enjoy being yet complain so profusely about.

 

[DizFanatic]

I think this may be a bad subject to discuss here. I work in a non-unionized field of engineering. We don't make millions either. I think that there is greed on both sides here. It would be interresting to add the salaries to this arguement and the real reasons for the strike

I have a bad opinion of unions because of experiences that my mother's "union" job with the NYC scool system. High union dues, no help in understaffed schools, union "officials" with there credit cards, paid trips, cars... oh and thankfully they got some jail time.

The transit strike here in NYC was a bomb, oh, does anybody remember how the strike against the NY post newspaper went down. How about the air traffic controllers strike?

If you don't like your job, get a new one. That's what I did. I'm sure the guy who took my old job is happy.

 

[magic cait ball]

Lightboy I have done backstage . The only broadway professional play was victory victoria but I have done many College plays. I have done props, lighting ,sound and set design. When I was doing victor victoria the backstage crew were driving a remote control car around the backstage area while the show was going on. The actors waiting in the wings also joined in.

So dont tell me I dont know what I am talking about. Also if you really want to stick up for yourself then tell us what your salary is.

I have done All the technical parts of theater. This strike was not planned out very well and could have been a rolling strike. that would have gotten the point across and not cost the city itself millions in lost revenue and had non union people in things like restaurants without money and jobs.

Also lightboy so you are saying these people making 160k a year deserve to make even more money? They already make more the nyc cops,firemen,ems workers. People who save lives for a living.

THANK YOU! that's exactly what i was thinking. as the daughter of two members of the NYPD, i get so angry when something like this happens in NY. wow. 160k, you must really be struggling. i mean, forget about the people who risk their lives to save others and get a starting salary that qualifies them for food stamps.

thats the thing that gets me most angry about the recent strikes in the entertainment industry. everyone there is already overpaid.

this is doing too much harm to NYC, especially at a time where theater attendance is going to shoot up.