Lights of Winter not being displayed this year (2009)!?!

mickeysaver

Well-Known Member
The letter...

This is a first draft. I am worry that I am still to mad to make much sense. I appreciate any feedback that you want to give me on it via PM.

I am a Walt Disney World Resort vacation fan. I have pretty much been one ever since I was lucky enough to have seen the Magic Kingdom as a 3 year old before the park officially was opened to the general public. I have many magical memories of Disney all through my life with experiences ranging from meeting Mickey Mouse, actually meeting Al Weiss in the parks, to even something as simple as just sitting there on a bench and people watching. I hold those Florida Disney parks near and dear to my heart. They are a part of some of the best memories of my lifetime. My partner and I have made Walt Disney World Resort our vacation of choice since 2001. What has kept us going back year after year is the perceived value of our vacation dollar when you look at the big picture and of course, the pixie dust.

Soon we will be spending a week at the Yacht Club resort. We are attending Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party. We are going to do a Wishes Dessert Party. We even were lucky enough to be able to book an Animal Kingdom Wildlife Discovery Excursion. We have some great dining plans with a dinner at the Yachtsman Steakhouse, a breakfast at Cat Cora's new place, lunch with Remy at Les Chefs de France, the Afternoon Tea at the Grand Floridian, and our old favorite breakfast spot, Kona Cafe. I am hopeful that we will have a magical time.

We were hoping to catch the "Twas the Night Before Christmas" show at the Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party this year, because we just never have been able to see it on previous trips for one reason or another. You are most likely already aware that the "Twas the Night Before Christmas" show was cancelled this year for the new "A Totally Tomorrowland Christmas" show. When the news came out that there was no longer going to be a "Twas the Night Before Christmas" production, I was disappointed, but I know that things change and the parks were never meant to be museums. I was pleased to see that even though there was the cancellation of one show, that there was a new production that was offered in it's place. I tried watching some of the video from the "A Totally Tomorrowland Christmas" show on YouTube, but honestly, it's has little appeal to me at all, but that's ok. We will use that time to enjoy another ride or two instead.

The choice that we made in booking a room at the Yacht Club, instead of our beloved Poly, was one that was heavily influenced by our love of Epcot at the holidays and the desire to be near some nighttime entertainment options, since Pleasure Island's clubs are now long gone. We were looking forward to several evenings over at Epcot enjoying the Lights of Winter display, which has been a spot that we have enjoyed on many previous trips. Quite frankly, I was not at all happy to hear about the cancellation of the Lights of Winter display at Epcot. I am going to miss those beautiful and, dare I say, magical holiday lights. Epcot doesn't have much holiday decoration to it to begin with and I feel the loss of the Lights of Winter display leaves the park looking rather lacking in festive atmosphere. I have many happy memories from previous holiday trips of enjoying those lights with my partner, family, friends, and fellow guests. Our plans have now changed and we have cancelled several dinner reservations at Epcot because of it. In my opinion, the choir, D'vine Voices, while I am sure they will provide quality entertainment for some of your guests, they are not going to create the more universally perceived magic that the Lights of Winter did and it's not a suitable thing to be tauting as the replacement experience.

I would just like to say that I feel that the cancellation announcement in regards to the Lights of Winter display at Epcot being made through Twitter was highly inappropriate. I am glad that information was shared, but I feel that this should have been handled by way of a press release and a more honest answer should have been given. Also, I find that it rather odd that the Lights of Winter were featured in the December D23 holiday material, but they were cancelled. I am assuming that this was a rather recent decision, or that there was a big miscommunication between departments. I also find it sadly ironic that this news comes in a year where there is a new backstage tour in regards to the wonderful things that you folks can do with holiday lights.

I am pretty sure by now that through Disney's new social media outlets, that you folks have gotten the idea that the reason given for not putting up the Lights of Winter display is just not holding water. Walt Disney himself said, "It's kind of fun to do the impossible." Why could the Imagineers not have been working on a solution to the problem? I have a feeling it's because "obsolete technology" is just a poor excuse for, "We didn't want to spend the money." If Disney parks were to suddenly dispose of all things that create magic and enhance the guests experience that are based on "obsolete technology" then I fear that there would be very few things to see or do there at all. It's also hard to believe this excuse since Siemans, who is a large corporate sponsor at Epcot, owns Sylvania, who has made lights and lighting technology for years and the majority shareholder of Disney stock is Steve Jobs, who I am sure you know owns Apple computers. Between those two resources and some good old fashioned Disney Imagineering, the Lights of Winter should never have been allowed to lapse into a state of being plagued by "obsolete technology" issues.

Beyond the disappointment associated with the loss of the Lights of Winter, for all of their beauty and magic memories, there is the much larger issue of these cuts. These cuts to the guest experience that are made without suitable replacements. These cuts made in hopes that the loyal customers won't notice and that we will forget that the value of the Disney experience keeps slipping and that the cost of a Disney vacation keeps growing, like the recently announced increases in locker, wheelchair, ECV, and parking fees.

My partner and I don't live extravagant lives. Our biggest expense, outside of basic daily living, every year is the vacation that we have made a priority of taking as a gift to ourselves in honor of our hard work throughout the year. Yes, there are cheaper places that we could go that are closer to home, but until now, we have held in our minds that the value of a Disney vacation was worth every penny. I am having a harder time holding onto that ideal. I find this to be incredibly sad. We have been holding off on purchasing DVC, which was at one time a very appealing idea to both of us, because of these cuts. The loss of Pleasure Island's Adventurer's Club, the Comedy Warehouse, and the other dance clubs is a huge factor in the DVC decision too. We don't have kids and really would love to have some more adult entertainment options in our vacations. We are still hopeful that as the economy improves that the "nickel and diming" and the "Walmarting" of the Florida Disney resort experience will end. These cuts have got to stop. What might be excellent for the bottom line in the short term is going to cost you plenty down the line as the guest experience becomes more and more like a generic theme park experience rather than the magical one that Disney has made famous over the years.

I am not the letter writing sort, and I only write this one due to my sincere love of the Walt Disney World Resort experience. I hope that my concerns and the concerns of your other loyal guests over these issues will be met with open ears and open minds. Not everything that exists at Disney can directly be tied to profits. I write this with hope in my heart that someone who can make a difference reads this letter. Please preserve the magic of the guest experience and the find a way to help your guests hold onto their perceived value of the Disney vacation experience before the brand is damaged any further. I thank you for your time and attention to these matters.
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
I was thinking about the statement I made earlier about Disney effectively cancelling Christmas at Epcot.

My guess would be that if an Epcot exec heard this, they would reply that there will still be a chior singing...

But this is like taking out the Peter Pan ride and adding a meet and greet instead, it is nowhere near the same thing.
 

Love U Disney

New Member
I was thinking about the statement I made earlier about Disney effectively cancelling Christmas at Epcot.

My guess would be that if an Epcot exec heard this, they would reply that there will still be a chior singing...

But this is like taking out the Peter Pan ride and adding a meet and greet instead, it is nowhere near the same thing.
exactly!:mad:
 

myawn

New Member
But this is like taking out the Peter Pan ride and adding a meet and greet instead, it is nowhere near the same thing.

Maybe what makes Lights of Winter obsolete is that there is no way to attach a gift shop at the exit.

Which is a shame, because I totally would have bought a plush. (Call him "Archie" :) ).

(I may just have to post that on DisneyParks, but it probably won't pass moderation )
 

nbodyhome

Member
I will make one suggestion - cut it down significantly. Be succinct and get to the point quicker. I can't imagine that anyone at Disney will read it in full.

I'd cut it down to a few short paragraphs - and you can get the point across pretty easily.

This is a first draft. I am worry that I am still to mad to make much sense. I appreciate any feedback that you want to give me on it via PM.
 

THEMEPARKPIONEER

Well-Known Member
Just saw this on Mouseplanet (way to be up with the current WDW events, by the way:

Lights of Winter glow away

The popular Lights of Winter are no more. Their demise was announced through the Disney Parks Twitter account Wednesday afternoon with the message, "Note: The Lights of Winter at Epcot has been enjoyed for years. But tech to operate the lights is obsolete, prompting us to retire the lights."

Immediate protests were launched on the Internet and theories of "the real reason" for the retirement circulated wildly. Popular theories included the obvious cost savings angle and the possibility that the lights—which have not been converted to LEDs as the Osborne Lights have—create a big dent in the company's green footprint. Both of those theories, however, seem a bit less likely when you take into account that the arches were seen in an area by Epcot's parking lot.

If Disney had no plans to install the lights this year for either budgetary purposes or environmental reasons, why would they take them out as if it were time to prepare by cleaning them? It's more likely a combination of the earlier reasons plus a new one: It's likely that Disney brought out the lights to clean the trellises and prepare them for installation, then saw that there was some damage that needed to be repaired. If the cost of repair was not within the maintenance budget and/or the the lights would eat into the budgetary savings of the green bulb conversion, a decision could be made to just cancel the installation. Of course, the latter would certainly feed into the obsolete technology referred to in the message.
Either way, the 30,000 lights will not be appearing again for a while.

Sigh. I leave tomorrow afternoon. And Epcot is my favorite park, especially this time of year.....

Not acceptable, This is disney. You would think they would have the Lights of Winter fixed and up and running in no time.
 

BroganMc

Well-Known Member
It was gaudy, cartoony clutter, and it was only meant to be there temporarily, so it's gone. Future World is supposed to be sleek, sophisticated, futuristic, and that wand was anything but.

Problem is FutureWorld just isn't very futuristic looking. Not by today's standards. It comes across as dated 80's like the Poly is a dated 70's.

There are things that the park does right. I adore the sparkling lights in the pavement, the kerosene torches around Nations, the varied decor of thse countries. I even like the way SPE is turned into a giant disco ball after firework and NYE.

But when you compare what MK does to decorate for holidays/season and EPCOT, MK wins hands down.

Re: LoW & merchanising

Those Bring Back LoW buttons have me thinking. It's a really good design. I bought some just for that reason alone. I half expect people who see me wearing it will want one themselves. Now if TDO had ever commissioned a design like that for holiday shirts, ornaments, etc. maybe they could have made enough money off it to make it worthwhile.

I can't see the choir or CP lending themselves so easily to a t-shirt display.

Maybe the designer can submit a listing of all sales with that design and show them what could have been done.

Also, this cancellation has me looking into what Disneyland CA and Tokyo do for the holidays. Wow, WDW looks so chintzy in comparison.
 

THEMEPARKPIONEER

Well-Known Member
Problem is FutureWorld just isn't very futuristic looking. Not by today's standards. It comes across as dated 80's like the Poly is a dated 70's.

There are things that the park does right. I adore the sparkling lights in the pavement, the kerosene torches around Nations, the varied decor of thse countries. I even like the way SPE is turned into a giant disco ball after firework and NYE.

But when you compare what MK does to decorate for holidays/season and EPCOT, MK wins hands down.

Re: LoW & merchanising

Those Bring Back LoW buttons have me thinking. It's a really good design. I bought some just for that reason alone. I half expect people who see me wearing it will want one themselves. Now if TDO had ever commissioned a design like that for holiday shirts, ornaments, etc. maybe they could have made enough money off it to make it worthwhile.

I can't see the choir or CP lending themselves so easily to a t-shirt display.

Maybe the designer can submit a listing of all sales with that design and show them what could have been done.

Also, this cancellation has me looking into what Disneyland CA and Tokyo do for the holidays. Wow, WDW looks so chintzy in comparison.

Epcot I think needs to break away from developing the future and push towards showing us ways to build a good successful future. Now I think the design is still unlike any other but now they need to change their point of views. I think the landscape and the looks are still ahead if its time.
 

Tiggerish

Resident Redhead
Premium Member
SEND IT! Show the fury!

I am hopeful that I can tweak this to express my displeasure without looking like a raging nutcase. :ROFLOL:



It's a well-written letter and the effort and emotion that went into writing it shows up very well, without being a rant.

While you say that you are still mad, I can assure you that it doesn't show up in the letter--it is firm and gets your disappointment/displeasure across about lots of the recent cuts but it reads as though it was written rationally, and not by a raving lunatic. No one takes raving lunatics seriously (not in writing, anyway--if confronted by a raving lunatic, however...well, people take that seriously) :D

I'm sure it will have an effect on whoever reads it, but whether the right people read it or not, well, we can only hope. At least you know you've done your part by sending it in.
 

87 GN

Active Member
I still can't believe the LOW will not be there for my trip next week. :brick:

My wife thinks it’s a little extreme but I was thinking of printing out pictures of the Low and taping them to the railings along where the Low should be with some text that reads something like:

"Please pardon or dust we are not making this area better for your future holiday enjoyment. There used to be a beautiful lights of winter display in this area for your enjoyment but now it’s not worth installing because we let it become obsolete" Try to have a magical day with out it, Thank You... Management. :xmas:
 

Eeyore

Mrs. WDWMAGIC [Assistant Administrator]
Premium Member
Just saw this on Mouseplanet (way to be up with the current WDW events, by the way:

Lights of Winter glow away

The popular Lights of Winter are no more. Their demise was announced through the Disney Parks Twitter account Wednesday afternoon with the message, "Note: The Lights of Winter at Epcot has been enjoyed for years. But tech to operate the lights is obsolete, prompting us to retire the lights."

Immediate protests were launched on the Internet and theories of "the real reason" for the retirement circulated wildly. Popular theories included the obvious cost savings angle and the possibility that the lights—which have not been converted to LEDs as the Osborne Lights have—create a big dent in the company's green footprint. Both of those theories, however, seem a bit less likely when you take into account that the arches were seen in an area by Epcot's parking lot.

If Disney had no plans to install the lights this year for either budgetary purposes or environmental reasons, why would they take them out as if it were time to prepare by cleaning them? It's more likely a combination of the earlier reasons plus a new one: It's likely that Disney brought out the lights to clean the trellises and prepare them for installation, then saw that there was some damage that needed to be repaired. If the cost of repair was not within the maintenance budget and/or the the lights would eat into the budgetary savings of the green bulb conversion, a decision could be made to just cancel the installation. Of course, the latter would certainly feed into the obsolete technology referred to in the message.
Either way, the 30,000 lights will not be appearing again for a while.

Sigh. I leave tomorrow afternoon. And Epcot is my favorite park, especially this time of year.....


The decision to cancel the Lights of Winter was made back in March. They've been sitting where they are now since they were taken down last season.
 

CDavid

Well-Known Member
Those Bring Back LoW buttons have me thinking. It's a really good design.

About those buttons - has anyone thought about sending one of these to each of the Disney executives responsible for the loss of the Lights of Winter? I wouldn't enclose a long complaint letter with it, no more than a paragraph. Better yet, don't say a word in complaint - let the button speak for itself. It's a small, token gift which vividly demonstrates our dissatisfaction with this years lackluster Christmas at Epcot.

This could well send a powerful message.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Re: LoW & merchanising

Those Bring Back LoW buttons have me thinking. It's a really good design. I bought some just for that reason alone. I half expect people who see me wearing it will want one themselves. Now if TDO had ever commissioned a design like that for holiday shirts, ornaments, etc. maybe they could have made enough money off it to make it worthwhile.

I can't see the choir or CP lending themselves so easily to a t-shirt display.

Maybe the designer can submit a listing of all sales with that design and show them what could have been done.

Also, this cancellation has me looking into what Disneyland CA and Tokyo do for the holidays. Wow, WDW looks so chintzy in comparison.

The LoW is a really great merchandising opportunity Disney just wasn't creative enough to see it.

Here are just a few of the ideas I can come up with:

• Obviously T-Shirts and sweaters, maybe even a light up led jacket.
• A Christmas ornament, a miniature version of the arches that lights up similar to Hallmark ornaments.
• The monorail toys are very popular and many people use the toys as decorations around their christmas tree, so I would have made a toy version of the LoW arches that the monorail could go through with lights and sounds.
• Coffee/Hot Chocolate mugs
• A 3 dimensional collectors pin set where you could collect each arch (release one per week or something) and connect them to each other.
• Antenna topper

I'm sure given more time I could come up with more. Obviously some would be good and some wouldn't. I am only one person, Imagine what a team of really creative people could come up with. The potential is definitely there they just didn't even try.
 

myawn

New Member
The LoW is a really great merchandising opportunity Disney just wasn't creative enough to see it.

Here are just a few of the ideas I can come up with:

• Obviously T-Shirts and sweaters, maybe even a light up led jacket.
• A Christmas ornament, a miniature version of the arches that lights up similar to Hallmark ornaments.
• The monorail toys are very popular and many people use the toys as decorations around their christmas tree, so I would have made a toy version of the LoW arches that the monorail could go through with lights and sounds.
• Coffee/Hot Chocolate mugs
• A 3 dimensional collectors pin set where you could collect each arch (release one per week or something) and connect them to each other.
• Antenna topper

I'm sure given more time I could come up with more. Obviously some would be good and some wouldn't. I am only one person, Imagine what a team of really creative people could come up with. The potential is definitely there they just didn't even try.

They would have gotten a LOT of money from me this year if LoW were in place and they were selling the merchandise you describe. I especially like the monorail idea .. I have the monorail + contemporary around my tree every year, the LoW would be a perfect addition to that setup.

Anyone else want to step up and make/sell these? Sounds like a project for quirky.com :) .
 

freediverdude

Well-Known Member
Let's not let this die without either getting the lights back up, or a suitable replacement that's even better.

Disney is missing out on so much merchandising by just going with all that generic stuff in every store, sigh.
 

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