Lightning Lane Premier Pass

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Ultimately Disney still gets your money… when they start losing that money is when the issue arises. Whether you are paying WDW or DCL. Disney and Capt Iger is still getting your disposable income

They get far less of it though, we have also turned to DCL, as we’ve become more and more frustrated with the parks, but spending an additional $5k a year on a DCL cruise isn’t even close to offsetting the thousands they’re losing from us not having keys at DL anymore, and going a dozen times a year, or WDW becoming a rare trip rather than an annual trip.

My Gf and I were talking about this recently and we estimated over the last decade we’ve spent about $25k a year annually between DL, WDW, DLP, DCL, ShopDisney, and runDisney… and that’s not even counting flights, offsite hotels at DL, etc… that was money directly into Disneys pockets. So far for 2025 we have 3 WDW days in Jan prior to a 5 day DCL cruise, a weekend at DL in Feb before our keys expire, then a trip to Utah in Spring, a trip to Yellowstone in the summer, a trip to Dollywood/TN in the summer, and a land and sea Alaska cruise on Princess in the fall. We’re still spending the same amount of money but Disney is probably getting 1/3 of it. We are probably the exception but if only a few thousand mega fans like us start spending $10-15k LESS a year at Disney that’s going to add up fast.

As middle aged (former) pixie dusters with tons of disposable income I feel we are Disneys target demographic, and we’re choosing to spend most our disposable income elsewhere.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

We're going back a ways with this. I can't remember if you could get more than one paper fastpass in a day for the same attraction but I know you couldn't get another fast pass until the first one was used (or, I think, two hours after the first one was issued - whichever time came first) and that severely limited the number of fast passes you could get in a day, made even more limited by later return times on busier days.

Yes, well partly.
In the days of paper FP, if your return time was less than 2 hours out, you could pull another FP as soon as you used that FP. If your return time was more than 2hours out, you had to wait 2hours.
Also back then, many parkgoers didn't use FP, so that also changed the dynamic.
A few rides ran out of FP fairly early in the day, like Toy Story Mania and Soarin', when both were 'the new big ride' in each park, but many did not.

If demand for FP was soft, then the return times for many rides would be less than 2 hours out. That was part of the incentive to be quick getting to the FP kiosk for TSM. At rope drop, you could pull a FP for TSM that was less than 2hours out, ride it standby before the line got too long, then use the FP- in under 2hours. But those who arrived half an hour after rope drop, you might not get a TSM FP at all.

Standby waits were also managed differently. We rarely waited more than 20minutes for any ride, but the FP queue was often 15minutes long. If ever we arrived to use a FP, and the standby was 20min or less, we usually hopped in the standby instead of using our FP.

Park goers could pull multiple FP for the same ride multiple times in a day.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

It's not good show for the unwashed masses waiting hours for a popular attraction while others ride it multiple times.
Allowing multiple rides will either reduce the number of LL Disney can sell or impact standby guests.

Your $$ gives you one skip. It allows Disney to better manage standby vs LL queus.

Book the entire park, or one land, for a.private event. Disney has pricing.

Except parkgoers will be allowed to buy this AND LLMP. They are also allowed to book a VQ.
If a park goer is willing to spend all the extra money and/or vie for a VQ, they will be able to ride the most popular rides multiple times in a row.

Also, if they really want to buy both Premier and LLMP, they are allowed to buy the Premier pass for 1st park, then hop to another park to use their prebooked LLMP passes- assuming they paid for park hopping.

 

[Splash4eva]

They get far less of it though, we have also turned to DCL, as we’ve become more and more frustrated with the parks, but spending an additional $5k a year on a DCL cruise isn’t even close to offsetting the thousands they’re losing from us not having keys at DL anymore, and going a dozen times a year, or WDW becoming a rare trip rather than an annual trip.

My Gf and I were talking about this recently and we estimated over the last decade we’ve spent about $25k a year annually between DL, WDW, DLP, DCL, ShopDisney, and runDisney… and that’s not even counting flights, offsite hotels at DL, etc… that was money directly into Disneys pockets. So far for 2025 we have 3 WDW days in Jan prior to a 5 day DCL cruise, a weekend at DL in Feb before our keys expire, then a trip to Utah in Spring, a trip to Yellowstone in the summer, a trip to Dollywood/TN in the summer, and a land and sea Alaska cruise on Princess in the fall. We’re still spending the same amount of money but Disney is probably getting 1/3 of it. We are probably the exception but if only a few thousand mega fans like us start spending $10-15k LESS a year at Disney that’s going to add up fast.

As middle aged (former) pixie dusters with tons of disposable income I feel we are Disneys target demographic, and we’re choosing to spend most our disposable income elsewhere.

Im strictly talking about people who choose to spend their “10k” vacation money at DCL instead of say WDW… end of day Disney is getting the 10k. Thats all im referring to…

 

[John park hopper]

Disney has precious few rides I would want to ride all day or even more then 2-3 times max in a day. The coasters, ToT, Soarin (especially if I could just stay on,) Mania, Splash. Dark rides get old after awhile. When I go to Universal, only rides I ride more then twice a day are Krakatoa, River Adventure, Veliciocoaster, Hogwarts Express, Mummy, and MIB.

Splash is gone

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Im not debating the “data” im simply saying anyone who cant get more than 3 MK FP/Genie whatever its called these days is at fault not the system im sorry i dont wanna offend anyone and call names but thats on the user NOT the system. Its not great a decent of people but anyone getting 3 or less is on them noone else

Or possibly someone who buys it to use on their arrival/departure days - esp. out of state AP holders.
Or perhaps someone who lives locally and is an AP holder who goes to the parks after work.
Also someone who is visiting Orlando for a conference, and goes to the park with a conference ticket. (either the after1pm or after-5pm tickets)

 

[John park hopper]

Disney won't get my cruise money either I prefer Holland America cruises

 

[UNCgolf]

If every skip the line system was eliminated from Disney, the standby waits for most of the major attractions likely wouldn't change much from where they are now -- there's generally a limit for how long people are willing to wait for different rides, and once it hits that number, they will just try to come back at another time.

The wait times might go up at the smaller attractions, although they wouldn't jump to huge waits for the same reason (people aren't going to queue up for a 90 minute wait for Dumbo, e.g.).

It would make the parks feel less crowded and open up the shops, QS, etc. because significantly more people would be in the queues. A 60 minute wait now vs. a 60 minute wait with no LL would probably involve at least 50% more people actually waiting in each queue, which would take a massive chunk of people away from other non-attraction areas of the parks.

I'm not taking a position on whether that would be better or worse -- just what would be the most likely outcome.

 

[Touchdown]

Splash is gone

I’m aware but I haven’t ridden Tiana’s yet so can’t comment, although the new script would have to be annoyingly bad to a huge degree for that to change. WDW Splash is still my favorite log flume.

 

[LSLS]

If every skip the line system was eliminated from Disney, the standby waits for most of the major attractions likely wouldn't change much from where they are now -- there's generally a limit for how long people are willing to wait for different rides, and once it hits that number, they will just try to come back at another time.

The wait times might go up at the smaller attractions, although they wouldn't jump to huge waits for the same reason (people aren't going to queue up for a 90 minute wait for Dumbo, e.g.).

It would make the parks feel less crowded and open up the shops, QS, etc. because significantly more people would be in the queues. A 60 minute wait now vs. a 60 minute wait with no LL would probably involve at least 50% more people actually waiting in each queue, which would take a massive chunk of people away from other non-attraction areas of the parks.

I'm not taking a position on whether that would be better or worse -- just what would be the most likely outcome.

I'll go back to what I said a while ago as well, it will feel like less time in line because you would be moving, which I still say is the biggest issue these skip the line things are producing.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

If every skip the line system was eliminated from Disney, the standby waits for most of the major attractions likely wouldn't change much from where they are now -- there's generally a limit for how long people are willing to wait for different rides, and once it hits that number, they will just try to come back at another time.

The wait times might go up at the smaller attractions, although they wouldn't jump to huge waits for the same reason (people aren't going to queue up for a 90 minute wait for Dumbo, e.g.).

It would make the parks feel less crowded and open up the shops, QS, etc. because significantly more people would be in the queues. A 60 minute wait now vs. a 60 minute wait with no LL would probably involve at least 50% more people actually waiting in each queue, which would take a massive chunk of people away from other non-attraction areas of the parks.

I'm not taking a position on whether that would be better or worse -- just what would be the most likely outcome.

But doesn't Disney want you buying merch and food and drinks vs in line?

 

[UNCgolf]

But doesn't Disney want you buying merch and food and drinks vs in line?

Sure, but they aren't really selling more when the stores are overly crowded and people are avoiding going into them/buying QS food because the lines are too long. I think that's part of the reason they started pushing mobile order hard -- they didn't want people to say "eh, maybe we'll get something later" and not buy anything when they saw the line.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I'll go back to what I said a while ago as well, it will feel like less time in line because you would be moving, which I still say is the biggest issue these skip the line things are producing.

An hour is still an hour, whether your moving in a line or just waiting around for the hour and then go into the ride.

You think kids are going to somehow not melt down waiting an hour in a line, simply because they got to walk slowly through the confined line q, versus standing and waiting? Am I somehow not losing an hour of my trip day waiting in the line walking, vs standing around?

 

[LSLS]

An hour is still an hour, whether your moving in a line or just waiting around for the hour and then go into the ride.

You think kids are going to somehow not melt down waiting an hour in a line, simply because they got to walk slowly through the confined line q, versus standing and waiting? Am I somehow not losing an hour of my trip day waiting in the line walking, vs standing around?

Yes. Speaking from experience, they are much better when it feels like they are getting somewhere. An hour is absolutely not an hour for how it feels. Every gym-goer in the world knows the memes with like "If I'm told I have one minute to live, I'm going to plank so it feels like an eternity." (Or some variation of that). It's the same reason work goes much quicker when you are busy than sitting around waiting for work. If we are moving and I can point out new things to look at/show mile markers so it feels like we are accomplishing thing, it goes much better than when we sit still for 3 minutes, move a bit, sit another 2 minutes, move a bit, etc. It FEELS longer. Hence why I mentioned it not feeling as bad if the lines are the same length (in respects to wait time). And it's ridiculous to think kids don't have the same experience (which again, with kids myself, I have experienced first hand).

 

[Splash4eva]

An hour is still an hour, whether your moving in a line or just waiting around for the hour and then go into the ride.

You think kids are going to somehow not melt down waiting an hour in a line, simply because they got to walk slowly through the confined line q, versus standing and waiting? Am I somehow not losing an hour of my trip day waiting in the line walking, vs standing around?

Finally common sense…

 

[UNCgolf]

Yes. Speaking from experience, they are much better when it feels like they are getting somewhere. An hour is absolutely not an hour for how it feels. Every gym-goer in the world knows the memes with like "If I'm told I have one minute to live, I'm going to plank so it feels like an eternity." (Or some variation of that). It's the same reason work goes much quicker when you are busy than sitting around waiting for work. If we are moving and I can point out new things to look at/show mile markers so it feels like we are accomplishing thing, it goes much better than when we sit still for 3 minutes, move a bit, sit another 2 minutes, move a bit, etc. It FEELS longer. Hence why I mentioned it not feeling as bad if the lines are the same length (in respects to wait time). And it's ridiculous to think kids don't have the same experience (which again, with kids myself, I have experienced first hand).

Yeah, it's a bit like if there's a crash causing issues on the Interstate and it's going to be a 20 minute delay where you just barely inch forward.

Whenever I see that on the GPS, I almost always take the next exit -- even if it takes the same amount of time to go around, it's significantly more pleasant to actually move/drive than slowly creeping along and sometimes sitting still.

It's just nowhere near as frustrating.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Kids 100% are more tolerable in 60 minutes of a moving line than 60 minutes of a standstill. Adults too for that matter lol.

One of the worst standby experiences I’ve ever had at WDW had nothing to do with the actual wait time, and everything to do with the way we were held at a standstill for almost an hour in sight of the merge point due to earlier breakdowns causing ballooning at the FP lane.

 

[Bocabear]

We got in line at ROTR when it was a posted 37 minute wait... actual wait time was about an hour and 25 minutes...that felt like 6 hours and 42 minutes.....The first 35 minutes was outside in the sun.... I think we all decided after that, no more standby lines...lol

 

[MrPromey]

Yes, but TP own charts of potential availability of G+ return times show most rides still having slots well into early evening hours at nearly all crowd levels. They show HS with everything but SDD having possible openings as late as 3 PM on high crowd days. MK also 3 PM, with half the park still being an option as late as 6 PM. EPCOT, everything outside of the big three almost never ran out. AK, all but Na'vi river are available most of the day.

Even if you just picked one ride every two hours from park open (not even at 7am) you would get at least 3-4 attractions without even trying on most days.

Point being, the options to select more rides was available to anyone with G+ most of the day. The people who only got 1-2 either didn't bother to use the system much, didn't like the return times or didn't understand it. All problems that can and also exist with the current setup.

but... was apparently less of an issue from the old setup.

I'm going to guess, some of that poor usage might have come from the pre-planning people were encouraged to do before getting to Central Florida with FP+ that wasn't possible with G+ and I'd be interested in seeing what the numbers look like with multipass now that, that feature has been somewhat restored.

 

[MrPromey]

Yes, well partly.
In the days of paper FP, if your return time was less than 2 hours out, you could pull another FP as soon as you used that FP. If your return time was more than 2hours out, you had to wait 2hours.
Also back then, many parkgoers didn't use FP, so that also changed the dynamic.
A few rides ran out of FP fairly early in the day, like Toy Story Mania and Soarin', when both were 'the new big ride' in each park, but many did not.

If demand for FP was soft, then the return times for many rides would be less than 2 hours out. That was part of the incentive to be quick getting to the FP kiosk for TSM. At rope drop, you could pull a FP for TSM that was less than 2hours out, ride it standby before the line got too long, then use the FP- in under 2hours. But those who arrived half an hour after rope drop, you might not get a TSM FP at all.

Standby waits were also managed differently. We rarely waited more than 20minutes for any ride, but the FP queue was often 15minutes long. If ever we arrived to use a FP, and the standby was 20min or less, we usually hopped in the standby instead of using our FP.

Park goers could pull multiple FP for the same ride multiple times in a day.

The only thing I didn't remember with that was if you could get another FP for the same attraction after the two hour mark or after using the first one.

I don't think that's something we ever tried to do.