Lightning Lane Premier Pass

[Splash4eva]

That's not my opinion, it's data.

I guess you can argue with @lentesta about his tracking methods if you want.

Of course, that was for G+ and not the newest new system. I'm guessing these changes were in part because of that.
Of course, if people are able to more fully utilize it now, that capacity has to come from somewhere it wasn't during G+, right?

The current system obviously works a lot more like FP+ so having three locked in return times in advance probably makes it the same or better for the people buying in, I guess.

Im not debating the “data” im simply saying anyone who cant get more than 3 MK FP/Genie whatever its called these days is at fault not the system im sorry i dont wanna offend anyone and call names but thats on the user NOT the system. Its not great a decent of people but anyone getting 3 or less is on them noone else

 

[BrianLo]

I hadn’t interpreted the deluxe only purchase option as a permanent thing. But I see others are?

I just figured it’s because they need to fine tune pricing on this product before expanding it further.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I hadn’t interpreted the deluxe only purchase option as a permanent thing. But I see others are?

I just figured it’s because they need to fine tune pricing on this product before expanding it further.

I could see it being rolled out to all resorts, with perhaps Deluxe guests getting first dibs at rides, or additional free picks for staying in a higher room category.

If the past few years has taught us anything, it's that Disney's skip the line programs are always up for review and Disney is willing to try anything short of going back to FP of old.

 

[UNCgolf]

I hadn’t interpreted the deluxe only purchase option as a permanent thing. But I see others are?

I just figured it’s because they need to fine tune pricing on this product before expanding it further.

I imagine it'll depend how many they sell. There has to be a limit on how many they can sell, so if they're basically filling that up from deluxe (and partner) sales, there's no reason to expand it to others. It lets them point to it as a "perk", too.

 

[LSLS]

I tentatively disagree. We’re seeing a big new building push because Disney knows folks like me will pay $25/person/ride to do the fun new thing for a year or two. It also probably helps sell after hours and holiday parties. I’ll fully disagree when these new D and E tickets come into existence.

The only new build is really Villains land. The others are taking stuff out to put new stuff in at basically an equal attraction level. Will Encanto and Jones be more popular than what is at Dinosaur? I'd bet a ton of money on it. But that doesn't mean they are building new and adding a bunch of stuff to the park. Or, another way to look at it. Will more people buy LL if you add more rides and spread out the lines, or if there are fewer rides meaning all lines are long?

I'm pessimistic, but I don't see this as being another positive. I think you will continue to see ride replacements be preferred over additions with the idea that can sell more ILL without increasing operation costs (outside of the initial cost).

Yes and no, I think the knowledge they can directly monetize a new ride is incentivizing them to do beyond big thunder and Disneyland Forward.

With the exception of Tron and Ratatouille, and MMRR at DL, we haven’t gotten anything new stateside since Galaxy’s Egde, nearly a decade of reskins and updates. Suddenly they’re announcing entire lands and expansions, I think (hope) being able to show their stockholders that spending a half billion dollars on a ride can directly results in $250,000 a day in ILL income (10,000 sold at $25) will open the floodgates, at least encourage them to open a new ride in every park every half decade since that would be the break even point. Honestly I’d be fine with that scenario, a new ride being ILL for a few years and then going into free rotation when the next ride opens and becomes the next ILL wouldn’t bother me one bit. Disney has been stagnant for far too long, they need an incentive to build again.

Maybe the optimist in me is just grasping for any positive outcome because everything about Disney has been negative since basically 2019 and my inner pixie duster can’t take it anymore.

I still think the preference is replace rather than add. Yes, they want to put new in, but I think the preference is to replace so that the day to day costs don't increase while they can monetize rides (add Tianna to your list as well, and maybe Country Bear?). No, they aren't going to just do replacements at all times, but I think that will continue to be the majority (because I'll say again, I'm just insanely pessimistic on about everything at this point).

 

[DisneyCane]

Agreed. I'm the same way. Last time I was at Universal we did Mummy 11 times, Hulk 7 times and Spiderman 8 times over our stay.

I think we are in the minority when it comes to your average guest. Most are fine with riding things once maybe twice a visit. Your average guest isn't a ride warrior.

Many years ago, pre-Mummy existing, we went to IOA on a Wednesday I think it was in early November. It was possibly the least crowded of any day in any park. We did 21 rides just on roller coasters in one day. I don't remember the Hulk vs. Dueling Dragons split. Then we did multiple Spider Man and water rides. This was without express pass. By far the best value for a theme park day ever.

This is why I happily pay for an After Hours event. I was able to ride FoP 17 times in a row.

A few days after the COVID reopening, we went to AK and rode FoP 7 times. 4 in a row and then 3 in a row (getting to short cut into the FP/LL entrance from the exit hall). We mixed some other rides in between. We could have probably done 25 FoP if we wanted to. We did find that when we rode so many times in such a short time period, we started to lose the illusion. It was like we were getting to used to the simulator and also having the entire ride sequence perfectly memorized.

 

[JD80]

I hadn’t interpreted the deluxe only purchase option as a permanent thing. But I see others are?

I just figured it’s because they need to fine tune pricing on this product before expanding it further.

Probably not pricing, but it's adoption rate and it's effects on current LL usage.

 

[DisneyCane]

I'm not sure I could handle this 17 times in a row:

That was one benefit of the post COVID reopening day when we rode 7 times in a couple of hours. They made the severely truncated pre-show.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

I hadn’t interpreted the deluxe only purchase option as a permanent thing. But I see others are?

I just figured it’s because they need to fine tune pricing on this product before expanding it further.

I agree with you I think this phase is working out things like pricing and how far they can push capacity/availability. Given the way they’re referring to this as a pilot rollout with the deluxe resorts, I’m anticipating the goal is expanding it as far as they reasonably can before it starts impacting the LLMP/SP availability that enough that people actually stop buying that.

People seem very optimistic this will not have an impact on anyone but the users of it. I am not one of those people, and I think once this is fully fleshed out they will be selling as much of the excess capacity that allows for the 4th and beyond LLMP entries especially that they can get away with. That is IMO historically what has happened when they figure out how to profit off of ‘excess’ capacity. Just look how they’ve become masters of monetizing park hours they used to be included in the regular ticket, while not hurting their sales of regular tickets.

I think this is intended to be more mainstream than the VIP tours, club 33, and Golden Oak groups that the level of access and impact on regular guests is being compared to.

 

[jaklgreen]

How low would the price for this need to be to sit well with you?

I ask because I can just about guarantee what they'd charge would be more than that unless you consider the current VIP tours to be within your relative reach.

I think that Genie+ should be that you can pick the same ride more than once, just like Fast pass was.

 

[jaklgreen]

I really don't get why that bothers so many people. Personal opinions aside, we live in a capitalistic economic society. And I get that we can have a debate about stakeholder VS shareholders, but at the end of the day disney has an obligation to maximize profits. Capitalism doesn't stop at "this is your reasonable profit. You have enough now."

And while disney might be doing it to a level the other parks are not, line skip passes at other parks are by no means cheap. All the complaints from people just come off as sour grapes. I get being jealous regarding something one can't afford, but doesn't make Disney evil. They are a corporation and they will do whatever they can to reach maximum profits.

I think that if the parks weren't always so busy, that it would bother people a whole lot less. They need to do better, by either lowering how many people they let in or extend hours. Bring back MK being open until 2am. Everyone is feeling the pinch now, both financially and with the time they spend waiting in line. Disney is quickly reaching the tipping point of ing off just about everyone.

 

[jaklgreen]

I didn’t say I’m never going back. But the increase in price and decrease in value means that I’m no longer visiting yearly (like I’ve done for my entire life). Maybe once every 2 years. Maybe once every 5 years or more. Idk. There was a time pre-Covid where you couldn’t keep me away from the place. Now it’s a decision that requires a lot of deliberation.

This is how I feel. I LOVE WDW. I have been going at least once a year for almost 30 years. The exceptions were when I had my babies and they were too young, and then during covid shutdown, obviously. But I went when they reopened. This year will be the first year where I chose not to go because of the Decisions that Disney has made.
I am thinking of skipping it next year too and maybe just going on the Disney cruise. I think that Disney is going down the wrong path and the things that made us fall in love with it are slowly being chipped away.

 

[Nottamus]

If I ever won the lottery - i wouldn’t tell anybody, but there would be signs

 

[Splash4eva]

This is how I feel. I LOVE WDW. I have been going at least once a year for almost 30 years. The exceptions were when I had my babies and they were too young, and then during covid shutdown, obviously. But I went when they reopened. This year will be the first year where I chose not to go because of the Decisions that Disney has made.
I am thinking of skipping it next year too and maybe just going on the Disney cruise. I think that Disney is going down the wrong path and the things that made us fall in love with it are slowly being chipped away.

Ultimately Disney still gets your money… when they start losing that money is when the issue arises. Whether you are paying WDW or DCL. Disney and Capt Iger is still getting your disposable income

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Ultimately Disney still gets your money… when they start losing that money is when the issue arises. Whether you are paying WDW or DCL. Disney and Capt Iger is still getting your disposable income

My thoughts exactly. I’d think Disney would think it was a great success if when they turned people off from the parks they opted for Disney cruises instead of any of the endless non Disney vacation options.

You’re making room for new guests with fresh wallets while being a new guest with a fresh wallet in one of their other arms of their business. Win win.

 

[Raineman]

For those of you that like to crunch data: would there be enough data available right now to determine what the average attraction wait time would be in 2024 if every type of "skip the line" system was dropped, and every attraction was standby only? I am assuming that it would be more than it was pre-FP, even just considering the increased attendance numbers vs what it was in the mid-late 90s.There might be way too many factors to even come up with a formula to determine that, but it would be very interesting to see the results. Of course, it would all be hypothetical, because we all know Disney wouldn't want to stop stuffing their pockets with all of the post-COVID LL $$ they have been getting in the last few years.

 

[Dranth]

That's not my opinion, it's data.

I guess you can argue with @lentesta about his tracking methods if you want.

Of course, that was for G+ and not the newest new system. I'm guessing these changes were in part because of that.
Of course, if people are able to more fully utilize it now, that capacity has to come from somewhere it wasn't during G+, right?

The current system obviously works a lot more like FP+ so having three locked in return times in advance probably makes it the same or better for the people buying in, I guess.

Yes, but TP own charts of potential availability of G+ return times show most rides still having slots well into early evening hours at nearly all crowd levels. They show HS with everything but SDD having possible openings as late as 3 PM on high crowd days. MK also 3 PM, with half the park still being an option as late as 6 PM. EPCOT, everything outside of the big three almost never ran out. AK, all but Na'vi river are available most of the day.

Even if you just picked one ride every two hours from park open (not even at 7am) you would get at least 3-4 attractions without even trying on most days.

Point being, the options to select more rides was available to anyone with G+ most of the day. The people who only got 1-2 either didn't bother to use the system much, didn't like the return times or didn't understand it. All problems that can and also exist with the current setup.

 

[JD80]

For those of you that like to crunch data: would there be enough data available right now to determine what the average attraction wait time would be in 2024 if every type of "skip the line" system was dropped, and every attraction was standby only? I am assuming that it would be more than it was pre-FP, even just considering the increased attendance numbers vs what it was in the mid-late 90s.There might be way too many factors to even come up with a formula to determine that, but it would be very interesting to see the results. Of course, it would all be hypothetical, because we all know Disney wouldn't want to stop stuffing their pockets with all of the post-COVID LL $$ they have been getting in the last few years.

There would be a lot of guess work. Lots of things to consider, and it's just not adding X people from the LL to the Standby line and calculate the extra wait time. Having a LL for an attraction influences what people do. LL helps push people to lesser ridden attractions. LL forces people to move around the parks. Without a LL some people may decide to leave the park or not go at all. Without a LL some people might chose to ride an attraction over and over.

It would be a fun model to work with.

 

[Splash4eva]

My thoughts exactly. I’d think Disney would think it was a great success if when they turned people off from the parks they opted for Disney cruises instead of any of the endless non Disney vacation options.

You’re making room for new guests with fresh wallets while being a new guest with a fresh wallet in one of their other arms of their business. Win win.

Exactly. “im done w WDW” and proceed to say im going to DL instead its literally ALL going into the same wallet lol

 

[Touchdown]

Disney has precious few rides I would want to ride all day or even more then 2-3 times max in a day. The coasters, ToT, Soarin (especially if I could just stay on,) Mania, Splash. Dark rides get old after awhile. When I go to Universal, only rides I ride more then twice a day are Krakatoa, River Adventure, Veliciocoaster, Hogwarts Express, Mummy, and MIB.