Lightning Lane Premier Pass

[Laketravis]

Could you imagine if LLPP was free if you stayed at GF!

There would be a two year waiting list to book a room.

Could very well be a next step, after an inflated cost is established to support a "$XXXX Value" claim.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

It's safe to say that if a person looks at this and has to calculate things like "cost per ride" to determine its value, then they are not the target demographic of this pass.

This was never intended as a pass for everyone. The high price was chosen specifically to make it unattractive for most guests. If it was, say, $10, then EVERYONE would get one, and LL would simply become another standby line.

This is a pass for a subset of people for whom "money is no object" when it comes to skipping lines without the hassle of pre-planning.

And, yes, I'm sure many here will be quick to mention their sizable incomes, but if those same people are also arguing that the price is not worth it to them, then they, too, are not the target demographic.

I actually disagree. Those with the kind of incomes where you never have to consider the value of a purchase were surely already VIP tour guide guests. They likely will remain VIP tour guests for the much more flexible and tailored to them day. Maybe a small fraction of that small fraction of guests were turned off by having to have an actual human with them, but I don’t think that would spur an entirely new system.

There is a level of wealth that is needed to afford a stay at a Disney Deluxe resort, however it isn’t the level of wealth that is being implied throughout this thread. I really don’t think this is solely targeted at those who never need to assess the value of their purchases. The price point is not wildly different from after hours events at 3/4 of the parks. This is more of a mainstream kind of splurge product IMO.

 

[KrzyKtty]

I actually disagree. Those with the kind of incomes where you never have to consider the value of a purchase were surely already VIP tour guide guests. They likely will remain VIP tour guests for the much more flexible and tailored to them day. Maybe a small fraction of that small fraction of guests were turned off by having to have an actual human with them, but I don’t think that would spur an entirely new system.

There is a level of wealth that is needed to afford a stay at a Disney Deluxe resort, however it isn’t the level of wealth that is being implied throughout this thread. I really don’t think this is solely targeted at those who never need to assess the value of their purchases. The price point is not wildly different from after hours events at 3/4 of the parks. This is more of a mainstream kind of splurge product IMO.

I think this is forgetting that there are people that could afford VIP, but choose not to because that sort of day/style doesn't appeal to them. It seems like it is trying to get those that can afford it but maybe did not want that, and this is more their style.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Could very well be a next step, after an inflated cost is established to support a "$XXXX Value" claim.

Excellent point! Giving something free with stay (at rack price) for something that costs nothing to make AND claim a savings!

But I bet it works!

 

[KrzyKtty]

Excellent point! Giving something free with stay (at rack price) for something that costs nothing to make AND claim a savings!

But I bet it works!

Book the Poly hut resort rooms for the low price of 10k, no DVC points allowed, and it can be all yours!

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

I think this is forgetting that there are people that could afford VIP, but choose not to because that sort of day/style doesn't appeal to them. It seems like it is trying to get those that can afford it but maybe did not want that, and this is more their style.

Maybe, but I’m just not sure that would really be worth their while to establish an entirely new product for. Even so, I’d expect a product meeting that goal to be more in line with the VIP tour price and flexibility, something more like a basket of anytime any ride LL entries for some prohibitively high cost.

The way this is priced, structured, and offered to a relatively wide group doesn’t imply a ‘if you have to ask you can’t afford it’ type product IMO, unless that’s how you in general view the after hours events, with the caveat that this requires admission as well.

 

[nickys]

I’ve now read a report from a TA who has cancelled a VIP tour for her client (4 people) to be replaced by 2 days of the Premier Pass for MK and DHS and the Multi-Pass LL for AK and Epcot.

For the client the savings are around $900 and instead of 1 busy day doing 4 parks, they have 2 relaxed days and 2 “ordinary “ days.

Disney lose a profit of $600 (allowing for the commission they had paid) and the TA loses around $300 in commission.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

I’ve now read a report from a TA who has cancelled a VIP tour for her client (4 people) to be replaced by 2 days of the Premier Pass for MK and DHS and the Multi-Pass LL for AK and Epcot.

For the client the savings are around $900 and instead of 1 busy day doing 4 parks, they have 2 relaxed days and 2 “ordinary “ days.

Disney lose a profit of $600 (allowing for the commission they had paid) and the TA loses around $300 in commission.

Or, Disney still sells that VIP tour to a guest who might not have had availability because the space was taken up by family #1, so now they get the VIP tour revenues (minus whatever the guides get paid), plus the almost straight profit from the sale of the premier passes.

 

[KrzyKtty]

Maybe, but I’m just not sure that would really be worth their while to establish an entirely new product for. Even so, I’d expect a product meeting that goal to be more in line with the VIP tour price and flexibility, something more like a basket of anytime any ride LL entries for some prohibitively high cost.

The way this is priced, structured, and offered to a relatively wide group doesn’t imply a ‘if you have to ask you can’t afford it’ type product IMO, unless that’s how you in general view the after hours events, with the caveat that this requires admission as well.

True, I wad probably looking at it more on a personal level. I was never willing to buy a VIP tour because honestly it's to much for 1 day ( activity, not cost). After I pay for this for 4 people and 4 parks it might be closer to the price, but this is more in line with how I would want to go about my day.

 

[KrzyKtty]

I’ve now read a report from a TA who has cancelled a VIP tour for her client (4 people) to be replaced by 2 days of the Premier Pass for MK and DHS and the Multi-Pass LL for AK and Epcot.

For the client the savings are around $900 and instead of 1 busy day doing 4 parks, they have 2 relaxed days and 2 “ordinary “ days.

Disney lose a profit of $600 (allowing for the commission they had paid) and the TA loses around $300 in commission.

I would literally be doing the same thing.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I’ve now read a report from a TA who has cancelled a VIP tour for her client (4 people) to be replaced by 2 days of the Premier Pass for MK and DHS and the Multi-Pass LL for AK and Epcot.

For the client the savings are around $900 and instead of 1 busy day doing 4 parks, they have 2 relaxed days and 2 “ordinary “ days.

Disney lose a profit of $600 (allowing for the commission they had paid) and the TA loses around $300 in commission.

LLPP is a test. Yes, in this case, Disney lost money. There are cases where folks that would never do a VIP would buy LLPP.
That said, if Disney sees overall they are losing money with LLPP, then they will quickly drop it.

My guess is they will make more money with LLPP than they will lose from lost VIPs

Another thing is , there are no cast members needed for LLPP where VIPs need CMs. Another reason Disney likes LLPP is to eliminate a CM position and move that CM to do something else.

 

[UberMouse]

All of Gen Z was born while Fast Pass was free. Gen Z ends roughly between 2010-2012, so the youngest Gen Z had 9-11 years to experience it. Gen Alpha is when you’re gonna start meeting people who never had it. I was born in ‘01 for example so I had it for most of my trips to Disney (I’ve only done 2 with LL).

I'm speaking more of experiencing it as a parent. Kids, yes. But as a parent, it was so much easier to utilize. At least in my perspective. It's just an opinion.

 

[UberMouse]

When I look at most of what is included, I don't know that I have been to the park when the LL has been needed all for some of the attractions. At best we would save about 10 minutes or so. I try to avoid parks at peak season however.

 

[KrzyKtty]

When I look at most of what is included, I don't know that I have been to the park when the LL has been needed all that much, other than to save about 10 minutes or so. I try to avoid parks at peak season however.

Yeah, I have untill my youngest is at college until I can do that . Granted summer is helpfully less busy than it used to.

 

[DisneyCane]

"Greed is good!"

In all seriousness, I call this more of a money grab than something "greedy." I make the distinction because visiting a WDW theme park is not remotely an essential thing to do or something that people have no choice but to spend money on.

I'm trying to think of an analogy that I would consider "greedy." I know this is illegal anyway but home depot raising prices of plywood when a hurricane is approaching would be "greedy." Even though there is a real-time supply and demand justification, it would be greedy to extract more profit just because a storm is coming for an item that somebody has to purchase.

The current Disney pricing and product policies are basically pushing the envelope to see what their customer base will tolerate and maximize profit. In the words of T.S. Elliot, "Only those who risk going too far can possibly know how far one can go." If enough of us reject what they are doing then they will see their profit drop and have to change course.

 

[UberMouse]

If I were running Disney, and shareholders were not involved, this is what I would do.

• Bring back the OG FP kiosks (located near each attraction) and utilize the same algorithms for return times and when your next pass can be issued.
• Instead of a ticket this time you just tap your phone or MB.
• You will then get your return time.
• The big thing would be that you have to be physically at that kiosk to get the FP as in the olden days.
• Make it free, but maybe raise per day ticket prices for each park by about 10%.
• If not free, then make it a microtransaction at the time of scan.
• This will take some of the stress from buying a package only to find out that either the LL is no longer available or the attraction is closed for the day.
• If the attraction is shut down during your return time, the option would remain that you can return at a later time, transfer it to another attraction, or be refunded cash or credited the FP for another day.

A man can dream...

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Do you think the attraction has the capacity to handle that when there are already people who can't get boarding groups to ride it at all?

It always comes back to capacity, Disney hasn’t built enough so line schemes are their only solution to try to deal with the mess they created. The fact they have found a way to financially benefit from their failures is frustrating beyond words though.

ILL doesn’t bother me because it encourages Disney to build new rides they can charge extra for, it’s a win/win, MLL and PLL drive me crazy though because it’s just a new upcharge for stuff that used to be free, and there’s no incentive for Disney to build anything new. It’s a win for Disney but a loss for guests.

 

[MrPromey]

Yes. Because 1) as a general rule, offering multiple services at individual pricing, allows people with different budgets, different interests, to pick and choose what is best for them. But maybe more importantly as it pertains to line skipping, 2) you can't offer something to everyone, buried in one price, and have it be an exclusive or benefit. Its simply a standard feature. If everyone is getting to skip the line in the same way, its really not all that beneficial.

In my experience, Disney never makes ticket structure changes with an eye to benefit the people buying.

I have yet to see how this is any exception.

After the COVID break, they came back with Genie+ just different enough from FP+ they could pretend it wasn't just an un-bundled version of the old thing that was now being sold back at higher prices.

Some people apparently loved it, many thought it was a step back in regards to features.

Either way, according to @lentesta 's numbers, average usage was less than 3 LLs per purchase which would suggest the people now paying for it were unable to get the same degree of benefit, on average, than with the free system that came before it.

Some people did but based on the statistics, the majority were getting a worse service for paying more money.

Now they've essentially morphed that back to something closer to FP+ by allowing pre-booking but only up to 7 days in advance for resort guest and 3 for people not staying on property - again, seeming to fall short of the older, free* service.

I know you know they didn't make this change because they wanted to get less money or wanted to benefit people more. By directly monetizing FP+ they've been able to get away with increasing base ticket prices while reducing what you get for them and then increasing the price of the previous FP+ benefit by multiples way higher than they'd have been able to get away with on the ticket price alone all while providing two separate products with less flexible features that a lot of guests seem to find more limiting than what came before.**

While it's sometimes possible to save money with à la carte options, unless you're willing to go for the rock-bottom minimum being offered (admittedly, this is sometimes enough for some but usually not for the majority) it's intended to drive people to spend more which is why businesses change to this model to begin with if they aren't forced to by market competition, which in this case, Disney clearly wasn't.

I mean, you may like that checked luggage is now separate with most airlines because maybe doing that has slowed ticket price increases (although realistically, probably not by much if at all) and the result of this change was a worse flying experience for everyone as carry on space became a problem that resulted in issues for just about all during boarding in terms of time and hassle whether they used checked luggage or not and now there are airlines charging for carry-ons since the charging for checked has caused people to find ways of not checking bags and they aren't making the money with that trick they once were.

I guess if you're only flying for a day or are okay with layering five days of clothing before boarding, you can get around this and still save money, but it's not a winable situation for most.

I can think of quite a few examples beyond Disney and flight where these practices don't seem to have benefited the majority of consumers. I can't think of many where businesses adopting this practice have worked out in favor for the majority of consumers but I'm open to being swayed if you've got some good examples.

Either way, to each their own, I suppose.

*Not free as in beer, of course.

**I really haven't heard much about the newest iteration but since it's basically rolled back to FP+ but gimped, it suggests they got enough direct guest feedback on the old program to make the change, even though I know you were a fan of that paid system as it was, yourself.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I'm not a Disney adult, I have 2 kids and not a YouTuber and this exactly what we as a family want. When we go on vacation, we hate planning out our days. With this we don't have to plan our days around when we booked attractions.

I agree, families that have the money would love this too.

I will say, to have options; LLMP, LLSP, LLPP, is a good thing.

And I have to admit, the freedom LLPP gives you is....... priceless

 

[LSLS]

It always comes back to capacity, Disney hasn’t built enough so line schemes are their only solution to try to deal with the mess they created. The fact they have found a way to financially benefit from their failures is frustrating beyond words though.

ILL doesn’t bother me because it encourages Disney to build new rides they can charge extra for, it’s a win/win, MLL and PLL drive me crazy though because it’s just a new upcharge for stuff that used to be free, and there’s no incentive for Disney to build anything new. It’s a win for Disney but a loss for guests.

The only thing is ILL did NOT incentivize them to build new, it incentivized them to replace so that they can charge money for a new ride without needing to hire staff to run the new and old ones.