Lightning Lane Premier Pass

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Everyone swore DAS abuses causes this. DAS is basically gone as we know it. Yet nothing has changed. All those people in the LL will now be in standby… so the illusion is bc a line is “moving” its better off. 45 minutes is still 45 minutes whether moving continuously or not

Actually that’s why they killed plus…that and it would never really work anyway…

Because a 45 short line is way worse for business than a moving one.

And we all saw the disgruntlement in person at some point.

Fastpass was designed for one purpose: to get you into the shops in a better mood with the time you “saved”

And it worked.

But what they have now does not work…nor will never work. It’s eroding the customer base.

And that will cause losses…and already has but has been covered to this point with ill advised price tactics. Covered in Saran Wrap.

The big myth in these talks is that Disney can “repurpose” any system they want. That is almost entirely false. They were engineered to operate in a certain parameter for a certain result. This isn’t crypto where bob can make it up and sell it to you when you’re drunk off snake oil.

And anyone who’s ever met the man knows that if you need a genius to pull these things off…that ain’t it.

Wait…they can shut down the noodle restaurant to save minimum wage on a dozen staff and then sell expensive cupcakes in there for an hour instead. That can be repurposed

Mission: ACCOMPLISHED

 

[LSLS]

Everyone swore DAS abuses causes this. DAS is basically gone as we know it. Yet nothing has changed. All those people in the LL will now be in standby… so the illusion is bc a line is “moving” its better off. 45 minutes is still 45 minutes whether moving continuously or not

I disagree. Time feels faster when you are accomplishing things. Sitting in stand still traffic for one hour does not feel the same as driving 70 miles in one hour. Time does not feel as bad when you are moving towards your goal. If your line is constantly moving, you feel you are getting somewhere. And maybe just as important, your kids aren't stuck sitting there with nothing to do, they get to keep moving. When you are standing there, it feels like it will never end.

But, I also don't know your premise is right. In 2023, 30 rides had longer wait times that they did in 2024 at MK. 3 had shorter wait times (Pooh with 1 minute longer, and Tiki Room and Philharmagic went from 11 minutes to 13 minutes which could just be changing what they list for essentially walk on). We have a bit til we know the attendance stats, but based on all rides, it would be about a 5% decrease in wait times from 2023 to 2024. So if attendance did not drop by that much, it could be argued there actually was a difference on wait times. BUT, I'll again say I'm not sure that it matters, because I totally disagree that waiting at stand still is the same as constantly moving.

 

[Purduevian]

I am curious how many people pushing to get rid of LLMP/LLSP went to the parks just before G+ started. I'm talking about like September/October 2021 when the parks were mostly at full capacity and there was no line skipping option.

I went ~2 weeks before G+ launched. Of course I had a great time, because it was WDW. However, even with the slightly reduced crowd... it was by far my most time waiting in line for attractions and my least "productive" days at the parks.

I now have a 2 year old that I've been fortunate enough to bring to WDW twice. I simply refuse to wait more that ~20 mins in a standby line with him, so LLMP allows us to prioritize attractions we want to ride without waiting. If they switch to LLPP and standby only, I think that would be the end of our annual WDW trips and push us either somewhere else, or going less frequently to get LLPP when we do go.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Fastpass was designed for one purpose: to get you into the shops in a better mood with the time you “saved”

And it worked.

This is exactly why Food and merch HATES LL.

LL is stealing MONEY from Food and merch.

Disney as a company LOVES LL, almost 100 percent margin and they are in COMPLETE control of the inventory!!!

 

[Dranth]

I'll again say I'm not sure that it matters, because I totally disagree that waiting at stand still is the same as constantly moving

This.

40 minutes with movement is VASTLY different than 40 minutes of standing around for most people. Anyone who is fine with standing around in line should count themselves as lucky as that is not the norm.

 

[LSLS]

I am curious how many people pushing to get rid of LLMP/LLSP went to the parks just before G+ started. I'm talking about like September/October 2021 when the parks were mostly at full capacity and there was no line skipping option.

I went ~2 weeks before G+ launched. Of course I had a great time, because it was WDW. However, even with the slightly reduced crowd... it was by far my most time waiting in line for attractions and my least "productive" days at the parks.

I now have a 2 year old that I've been fortunate enough to bring to WDW twice. I simply refuse to wait more that ~20 mins in a standby line with him, so LLMP allows us to prioritize attractions we want to ride without waiting. If they switch to LLPP and standby only, I think that would be the end of our annual WDW trips and push us either somewhere else, or going less frequently to get LLPP when we do go.

But what are you comparing? You say your least productive day, but are you comparing to when you had FP+? Anticdotal, but I've clicked 4-5 days randomly in September and October, and 2021 had less wait times than 2023 each time. 3 of the days it was among the lowest wait times over the last 10 years, the other 2 it was right around middle of the pack.

 

[Dranth]

I am curious how many people pushing to get rid of LLMP/LLSP went to the parks just before G+ started. I'm talking about like September/October 2021 when the parks were mostly at full capacity and there was no line skipping option.

G+ rolled out during our trip in 2021. We had 6 days before it came out and 4 with it. Yes, we waited in a lot more lines in those days leading up to G+ but they moved. Once G+ started up we used that exclusively and would only get on something without it if it was listed at a 15 minute wait or less because standing around in a line not moving is about the worse experience there is in a theme park (outside of something actual bad/tragic happening).

 

[Ayla]

I am curious how many people pushing to get rid of LLMP/LLSP went to the parks just before G+ started. I'm talking about like September/October 2021 when the parks were mostly at full capacity and there was no line skipping option.

I went ~2 weeks before G+ launched. Of course I had a great time, because it was WDW. However, even with the slightly reduced crowd... it was by far my most time waiting in line for attractions and my least "productive" days at the parks.

I now have a 2 year old that I've been fortunate enough to bring to WDW twice. I simply refuse to wait more that ~20 mins in a standby line with him, so LLMP allows us to prioritize attractions we want to ride without waiting. If they switch to LLPP and standby only, I think that would be the end of our annual WDW trips and push us either somewhere else, or going less frequently to get LLPP when we do go.

I was there in September 2021, when the only option was standby. I loved it.

 

[Purduevian]

But what are you comparing? You say your least productive day, but are you comparing to when you had FP+? Anticdotal, but I've clicked 4-5 days randomly in September and October, and 2021 had less wait times than 2023 each time. 3 of the days it was among the lowest wait times over the last 10 years, the other 2 it was right around middle of the pack.

I've used FP, FP+, G+, and LLMP (Although I wasn't really old enough for OG FP to be in charge on the group so I can't really compare that). Standby only in October 2021 was the most time I waiting in line under any system and got the least done.

The overall standby waits were probably lower, but from a personal level I waited more because I always utilize the skip line option.

G+ rolled out during our trip in 2021. We had 6 days before it came out and 4 with it. Yes, we waited in a lot more lines in those days leading up to G+ but they moved. Once G+ started up we used that exclusively and would only get on something without it if it was listed at a 15 minute wait or less because standing around in a line not moving is about the worse experience there is in a theme park (outside of something actual bad/tragic happening).

Bolding the important part for me, as someone that only goes on 3-4 day trips, lines are the enemy.

I was there in September 2021, when the only option was standby. I loved it.

Glad it worked out for you! Again, I'm sure it worked great for some people, but just not me personally.

 

[Splash4eva]

I disagree. Time feels faster when you are accomplishing things. Sitting in stand still traffic for one hour does not feel the same as driving 70 miles in one hour. Time does not feel as bad when you are moving towards your goal. If your line is constantly moving, you feel you are getting somewhere. And maybe just as important, your kids aren't stuck sitting there with nothing to do, they get to keep moving. When you are standing there, it feels like it will never end.

But, I also don't know your premise is right. In 2023, 30 rides had longer wait times that they did in 2024 at MK. 3 had shorter wait times (Pooh with 1 minute longer, and Tiki Room and Philharmagic went from 11 minutes to 13 minutes which could just be changing what they list for essentially walk on). We have a bit til we know the attendance stats, but based on all rides, it would be about a 5% decrease in wait times from 2023 to 2024. So if attendance did not drop by that much, it could be argued there actually was a difference on wait times. BUT, I'll again say I'm not sure that it matters, because I totally disagree that waiting at stand still is the same as constantly moving.

Time can “feel” any way you want it to feel. But FACTUALLY 45 minutes is still 45 minutes of actual wait time. You day doesnt get freed up any more by the line “moving”. If im understand you correctly 5% difference is no major difference either imo. So a 60 minute wait goes to 57 minutes?!? Either way my point stands. If you continuously move for 45 and i stop and go for 45 minutes we BOTH will end up at the finish line at the exact same time thats really not debatable

 

[Andrew C]

Time can “feel” any way you want it to feel. But FACTUALLY 45 minutes is still 45 minutes of actual wait time. You day doesnt get freed up any more by the line “moving”. If im understand you correctly 5% difference is no major difference either imo. So a 60 minute wait goes to 57 minutes?!? Either way my point stands. If you continuously move for 45 and i stop and go for 45 minutes we BOTH will end up at the finish line at the exact same time thats really not debatable

Without getting into whether standby lines can be reduced by adjusting DAS, LL, etc., perception does have an impact on experience.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I was there in September 2021, when the only option was standby. I loved it.

So you were there on the tail end of Covid, when the Delta variant was just hitting, and after most of the countries schools had goon back. Yeah, in that historic once in a generation scenerio, stand by was good. Hell we were there at that time right before labor day, the parks were so empty they were letting us re-ride BtM and just stay in the carts, not even having to leave and get back in line. I don't think anything as far as standard practices can be associated with that time period.

 

[LSLS]

Time can “feel” any way you want it to feel. But FACTUALLY 45 minutes is still 45 minutes of actual wait time. You day doesnt get freed up any more by the line “moving”. If im understand you correctly 5% difference is no major difference either imo. So a 60 minute wait goes to 57 minutes?!? Either way my point stands. If you continuously move for 45 and i stop and go for 45 minutes we BOTH will end up at the finish line at the exact same time thats really not debatable

Keep in mind that is with everything across the entire year. So some rides were 10 minutes longer, others were the same. And they could be markedly different depending on how busy things are, just a very generalized number. But 5% is a difference, it's not that nothing changed. But it's the perception of time that matters to how happy people are. And that is what everyone is talking about with things. Theoretically, those DAS people were pushed to standby, so the lines won't change too much if rides are dispatching at the same rate and there are the same number of people. But it feels like it's going quicker to people, and that is the important thing. You are right,45 minutes is 45 minutes. But feeling like you are moving keeps all the guests much happier. Hence why people want just stand by.

 

[LSLS]

I've used FP, FP+, G+, and LLMP (Although I wasn't really old enough for OG FP to be in charge on the group so I can't really compare that). Standby only in October 2021 was the most time I waiting in line under any system and got the least done.

The overall standby waits were probably lower, but from a personal level I waited more because I always utilize the skip line option.

Bolding the important part for me, as someone that only goes on 3-4 day trips, lines are the enemy.

Glad it worked out for you! Again, I'm sure it worked great for some people, but just not me personally.

I mean, you are comparing having to only be in standby to the times when you got 3-4 (or more) skip the lines. Of course you got less done in that scenario as an individual that knew the system.

 

[Purduevian]

I mean, you are comparing having to only be in standby to the times when you got 3-4 (or more) skip the lines. Of course you got less done in that scenario as an individual that knew the system.

But there are people on here that are sure eliminating LLMP/LLSP would be better because the standby lines move faster and are slightly shorter... I am saying I would not like a standby and LLPP only system.

 

[Laketravis]

Time can “feel” any way you want it to feel. But FACTUALLY 45 minutes is still 45 minutes of actual wait time. You day doesnt get freed up any more by the line “moving”. If im understand you correctly 5% difference is no major difference either imo. So a 60 minute wait goes to 57 minutes?!? Either way my point stands. If you continuously move for 45 and i stop and go for 45 minutes we BOTH will end up at the finish line at the exact same time thats really not debatable

Einstein would beg to differ: "Space and time are relative, and all motion must be relative to a frame of reference"

A moving queue provides a perception of progress (reference), a frequently stalled queue provides delays of unknown duration (no reference).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This.

40 minutes with movement is VASTLY different than 40 minutes of standing around for most people. Anyone who is fine with standing around in line should count themselves as lucky as that is not the norm.

A 90 minute moving line for pirates or splash in the 80’s/90’s felt absolutely nothing like a 60 minute wait in 2017 for mine train that had 300 people in it and didnt move at all

 

[John park hopper]

A 90 minute moving line for pirates or splash in the 80’s/90’s felt absolutely nothing like a 60 minute wait in 2017 for mine train that had 300 people in it and didnt move at all

People weren't glued to their phones people interacted when in line so the time seemed to go quicker

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

People weren't glued to their phones people interacted when in line so the time seemed to go quicker

That was a big part of it…

…also the movement was the “investment” you made for the payoff of the ride

 

[Purduevian]

People weren't glued to their phones people interacted when in line so the time seemed to go quicker

No one is forcing you or your group to be on a phone while in line... Why do you care if others prefer to burn time this way?