Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Missing20K]

IAS lets you skip the line. So you get to ride this incredibly popular attraction while everyone else is waiting in line for free.

So back to a 210 min wait with a FP(paid) line. I guess they give us the option to pay to skip the wait? Other than that, I fail to see what else is happening. BG, as loathsome as they seem to be, seem the best worst solution to whichever ride is “high demand” that day. At least give people the return time to wait 60 rather than 210. (Wow I somehow just defended BGs)

 

[brettf22]

I'm gonna sell a service... where I get up at 7am and book people's MDE app for them.

The catch is... you gotta book me 60days in advance

Seriously, if I were a top notch Disney travel planner right now, I’d be salivating. And hiring.

 

[DCLcruiser]

So back to a 210 min wait with a FP(paid) line. I guess they give us the option to pay to skip the wait? Other than that, I fail to see what else is happening. BG, as loathsome as they seem to be, seem the best worst solution to whichever ride is “high demand” that day. At least give people the return time to wait 60 rather than 210. (Wow I somehow just defended BGs)

Maybe I am not understanding you.

FP (LL) - lets you cut the line.
IAS - lets you cut the line.
Boarding Groups and Viritual Queues (aren't they the same?) - let you come back and ride.

Standby is the only line that sits and waits a long time.

 

[Jeff4272]

I hate to be negative, but this system will be a disaster for a park like DAK with only 3 worthy attractions deserving Fastpass/Genie. MaxPass worked at Disneyland because it had the ride capacity to handle multiple reservations. I sincerely doubt you would be able to snag a Flight of Passage reservation after 10AM (at best).

I'm very interested in seeing the occupancy rate of the all-stars once this is implemented fully.

Agree on this. Why would you buy it?

 

[UNCgolf]

The problem is not that there are too many guests per park. It's that there are too many guests per attraction capacity. MK is by far the smallest WDW park, and it's considerably bigger than DL with much fewer rides. Meanwhile, the other 3 parks are even bigger, with even less. They could easily reduce congestion by building more in the existing parks. AK has been open for 23 years - it has 7 rides. Epcot and DHS currently have 9 apiece. What do you think this 5th gate would look like when it first opens? I'll tell you - it would have 1 E-ticket (which would have 5-hour lines), 1 D-ticket, a spinner, a couple of shows, and some M&Gs. Plus, you would get to hear all about the coming "Phase 2" that will never happen. You could easily fit all of that into just the empty space in the existing World Showcase pavilions, for example.

Is DHS smaller than Magic Kingdom?

DHS has always felt tiny to me, but maybe that's because of how little is actually there. Animal Kingdom and EPCOT both feel huge.

 

[80sRockKevin]

I’m somewhat puzzled by the negative reaction. Those of us who really enjoyed using FastPass+ have every reason to dislike this replacement, but most people here were calling for a system that entailed greater spontaneity (along the lines of the old paper FastPasses) and that would have fewer users than FP+ (because of the belief that the latter inflates standby lines). Doesn’t this new system tick both of those boxes?

It’s not the new system that’s upsetting to me. I can actually sort of get behind the new Genie+ system on its face. It’s the charging $15 per person per day that invokes my negative reaction. For a family of 4 for 7 days, that’s an additional $420 just to ensure we are able to ride any rides without spending your entire day waiting in line. We’re already spending thousands for a trip. It’s insulting. Add the fact that staying on site now provides almost no advantage.

 

[Bairstow]

But the charge is what will ensure that fewer people use it. That's what many here were asking for.

Unless the charge is $70-$80 per high demand ride, I don't see it deterring a lot of people.

 

[flynnibus]

I’m somewhat puzzled by the negative reaction. Those of us who really enjoyed using FastPass+ have every reason to dislike this replacement, but most people here were calling for a system that entailed greater spontaneity (along the lines of the old paper FastPasses) and that would have fewer users than FP+ (because of the belief that the latter inflates standby lines). Doesn’t this new system tick both of those boxes?

Yup -and they should have just nerf'd Genie+, made it Genie/FP and free... and offered the 2 paid FPs.

Your 'isn't this better?' - glossed over the whole paying $15/head/day for something that has been free for 20+ years

 

[UNCgolf]

I still completely stand by the idea that building more attractions does nothing to solve the crowding problems. Attractions generate more attendance, and just shift the crowds from one side of the park to the other. The weight of a general "park lines are too long" complaint is far less severe than a "I waited 7 hours for a new attraction" complaint.

They have built numerous attractions in the 20 years since Fastpass debuted, and we are still here arguing about crowding, so clearly they did nothing to solve for it.

I don't think that's true. Is there much evidence to suggest that new attractions significantly increase attendance anymore? I thought even the opening of Galaxy's Edge didn't drive a significant increase in attendance, especially compared to the capacity added.

Regardless, even if they do, it's a short-term increase. And they certainly don't increase attendance enough to outweigh the addition of capacity -- there's essentially no way that a new ride, even one that only has a 10K per day capacity, is actually increasing attendance by 10K a day for more than a couple of months (if ever). Attendance is already too high on a daily basis for that to be true.

The reason it doesn't seem like the addition of attractions has helped crowding is because they were already so far behind. They still have less now than they did 25 years ago compared to attendance. If they hadn't built those new attractions, the parks would likely be unbearable today.

The idea that adding attractions makes crowding worse doesn't really make sense over the long-term, just in sheer statistics.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

If your assessment is correct, I wonder if the reaction here would have been more positive if the pricing were prohibitively expensive. That seems counterintuitive, but then I've never really understood what people were looking for in a replacement system anyway.

It's certainly possible. People don't seem as angry at the Universal Express Pass system. It has a smaller user base so it may be seen as more of an extra that doesn't have the direct impact on non-users that something like FastPass does.

Granted, it also helps that Universal is usually less busy than Disney so wait times are often more manageable in general. Not to mention this is a Disney focused site so people may not be as vocal in their opinions on Universal's system.

 

[Bairstow]

It’s not the new system that’s upsetting to me. I can actually sort of get behind the new Genie+ system on its face. It’s the charging $15 per person per day that invokes my negative reaction. For a family of 4 for 7 days, that’s an additional $420 just to ensure we are able to ride any rides without spending your entire day waiting in line. We’re already spending thousands for a trip. It’s insulting. Add the fact that staying on site now provides almost no advantage.

Would you have been more or less offended if this were presented as a straightforward $400 ticket price increase?

 

[flynnibus]

How is surge pricing anything different than "a hotel on Cape Cod in July is five times more expensive than that same hotel in February"?

Same way people don't like HOT lane pricing in tolls. It's a service they are accustomed to being a stable price - not something dynamic.

Same way we accept gas prices change weekly, but we expect a loaf of bread to be the same price week to week.

Staying in Cape Cod in the summer is a lot better in the summer than the winter -- FoP doesn't get better depending on the time of day.

 

[Missing20K]

Maybe I am not understanding you.

FP (LL) - lets you cut the line.
IAS - lets you cut the line.
Boarding Groups and Viritual Queues (aren't they the same?) - let you come back and ride.

Standby is the only line that sits and waits a long time.

I suppose I was under the impression that BG were pre-booked whereas the VQ happens when standby closed. But I think I may be confused because it doesn’t appear they will close standby lines irrespective of the length of queue. I think that may be where my confusion lies.

And if there are no IAS rides that day, everything is just LL if you bought G+.

I really shouldn’t be trying to parse this out while working.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Is DHS smaller than Magic Kingdom?

DHS has always felt tiny to me, but maybe that's because of how little is actually there. Animal Kingdom and EPCOT both feel huge.

According to https://disneythemeparks.fandom.com/wiki, the sizes are:
MK - 107 acres
DHS - 135 acres
Ep - 300 acres
DAK - >500 acres

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So there could be rides that are IAS without BG and a normal standby line. I wonder if the standby lines for headliners without BG could ever close and go to a VQ.

The vast majority of rides that are IAS will have normal standby lines.

 

[aliceismad]

Same way people don't like HOT lane pricing in tolls. It's a service they are accustomed to being a stable price - not something dynamic.

Same way we accept gas prices change weekly, but we expect a loaf of bread to be the same price week to week.

Staying in Cape Cod in the summer is a lot better in the summer than the winter -- FoP doesn't get better depending on the time of day.

But is there more value in skipping the line for FOP on a busy Saturday vs. a Wednesday in February?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Same way people don't like HOT lane pricing in tolls. It's a service they are accustomed to being a stable price - not something dynamic.

Same way we accept gas prices change weekly, but we expect a loaf of bread to be the same price week to week.

Staying in Cape Cod in the summer is a lot better in the summer than the winter -- FoP doesn't get better depending on the time of day.

There's absolutely NO indication that Individual Attractions purchases are going to have intraday price fluctuations.

 

[flynnibus]

Capacity is only valuable if it's actually used.

Doesn't change the fact that your assertion of building attractions was addressing the problem stated was bogus.

You're hanging on semantics when you know the underlying point is still true. The park has more demand then capacity and that's what people are pointing out. Obviously they need capacity people WANT (duh) - but just pointing out they've added stuff while still falling behind in actual load capacity is just non-sense talk.

 

[Bairstow]

There's absolutely NO indication that Individual Attractions purchases are going to have intraday price fluctuations.

It would make sense if they did, though.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Animal Kingdom is severely underbuilt. 4 E-Tickets only. The most popular one has atrocious capacity.
Hollywood Studios is severely underbuilt. It's most popular E-Ticket is an operational nightmare.
Epcot isn't underbuilt but rather an issue of no significant updates. Living with the Land has great capacity, but it's not popular. Same with Nemo, Mission Space, etc. Everyone wants to ride the same 4 (SSE,Test,Soarin,Frozen) rides.
Magic Kingdom is underbuilt for the attendance it receives. There's no reason why that park should have less attractions than Disneyland. (Don't kid yourself, most guests can care less for Country Bear, Tiki, CoP, PeopleMover, Presidents)

Also, Tron is going to have atrocious capacity. Seating 14 guests, and dispatching at a rate of approximately 45-50 seconds it'll have an hourly capacity of 1,008 to 1,120 an hour. (Hopefully they can get those dispatches faster)

You're not wrong.

I'm not sure how fast TRON dispatches, but I believe it will have dual load an dual unload which will help. Even with that, giving guests a minute and a half from gates open to dispatch may not be enough.