Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Neither I or anyone else I am aware of said lines would "basically disappear." They would move steadily, which they do not currently do. The aggregate lines in a park would fall because guests wouldn't be waiting in two lines virtually as they are waiting in another physically - crowds in stores, restaurants, and public areas would also fall. Lines would not be standardized over the day - they would fluctuate in length from morning to night, and less popular rides wouldn't have their waits artificially inflated.

Again, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THE PARKS WERE DESIGNED TO WORK. Parks designed for line-skipping would look very different - they would have more attraction capacity, much larger public areas, restaurants, and shops, more locations for seating, more street performers and scheduled shows, and more things to explore in each land. For line-skipping to work, the parks would need to be redesigned from the ground up.

Your history is correct…but the problem is the numbers no longer work.

The “parks work as designed” when they added new rides and new parks as the travel grew on a steady arc from the 1960’s to 2000.

Then they stopped. Near cold Turkey. But the arc continued. They started looking at overhead more than sales and you really can’t “pause” theme park investment. It’s been tried since 1900 and always resulted in decay to a certain extent. But Roy got mad, Bob took the job, Roy died, and Steve Jobs “techie board” showed up.

And here we are. You can’t fix mistakes that linger for years. It really is what it is.

I’m on a flight home right now…and I’m sure of two things:
1. Any suggestion more pay isn’t coming is delusional
2. Any suggestion that they can handle crowds without it is delusional.


I have more “things”…but I’ll leave it at that

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

You brought up a good point in one of your previous posts about rope drop not being possible with very young children. Disney has to consider the big picture when deciding on a line-skip system.

Yes, all standby would be the fairest system for people who are willing and able to stand in long lines in the hot sun all day. But adopting such a system would risk losing the parties with grandparents and very young children - those are the ones more likely to pay for the convenience of dessert party fireworks viewing or to drop $600+ at a character dinner at Storybook Dining Disney may be more concerned with keeping those guests than ensuring that people get to ride from open to close the way they do at Six Flags.

This was your prior post. So yes, you actually did say rope drop is not possible with young children. That's precisely what I was questioning. Making rope drop is a challenge, I agree. That is exactly why the peripheral hours have always been less crowded. But age has little to do with RD.

It is hard to make rope drop, because many things are beyond guests' control- like the timing of buses.

I think you made a valid point that WDW needs to be careful who they alienate. Goodness, WDW is going to have to walk a tightrope that has nothing to do with G+ in the coming months. (current events).

Part of what WDW wants to change is the way crowds peak from 11am until 5pm every day. I always thought that was part of the point- more even distribution. They do the same with dining via ADR's, now Mobile Ordering and park reservations. IMO, park reservations appear to be more about evening crowds across the 4 parks, IMO, than truly limiting crowds.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Rope drop is ultimately pointless…as I suspected prior and tried this week a couple of times.

You can get maybe 2 moderately popular things in…forget the “big rides”…you’d have to have Scotty beam you to the line when it opens.

Listen…
Here’s me: I hate profiteering and Disney’s management and their pitiful investment level over the last 20 years. That’s not changed.

Here’s what’s changed: if you travel to wdw from out of town…you gotta buy the genie to not be completely aggravated. You prolly have to buy the individual lines too. You can fight them…you’ll lose.

If you’re local and have 1 hobby…I’d advise not telling people how “easy” things are…because your second hobby is where you need to be an expert.

 

[Chi84]

This was your prior post. So yes, you actually did say rope drop is not possible with young children. That's precisely what I was questioning. Making rope drop is a challenge, I agree. That is exactly why the peripheral hours have always been less crowded. But age has little to do with RD.

It is hard to make rope drop, because many things are beyond guests' control- like the timing of buses.

I think you made a valid point that WDW needs to be careful who they alienate. Goodness, WDW is going to have to walk a tightrope that has nothing to do with G+ in the coming months. (current events).

Part of what WDW wants to change is the way crowds peak from 11am until 5pm every day. I always thought that was part of the point- more even distribution. They do the same with dining via ADR's, now Mobile Ordering and park reservations. IMO, park reservations appear to be more about evening crowds across the 4 parks, IMO, than truly limiting crowds.

Well if you read what you just quoted, you'll see that I was referring to another person's post about it not being possible, and even then I would interpret that statement as meaning not reasonably possible based on his experience with his group instead of being literally impossible for everyone. That interpretation would make no sense.

In any case, I agree with your point that Disney has to walk a tightrope with all of these issues. They're not going to make everyone happy, but with Genie+ it seems that they've found a way to make (nearly) everyone dissatisfied.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Well if you read what you just quoted, you'll see that I was referring to another person's post about it not being possible, and even then I would interpret that statement as meaning not reasonably possible based on his experience with his group instead of being literally impossible for everyone. That interpretation would make no sense.

In any case, I agree with your point that Disney has to walk a tightrope with all of these issues. They're not going to make everyone happy, but with Genie+ it seems that they've found a way to make (nearly) everyone dissatisfied.

not important....but you made several other posts along the same lines, that was just the first one I found. I think what you maybe were trying to say is that rope drop doesn't work for your family, but you left that 'for your family' off some of your posts in this thread. I appreciate your further explanation and larger point.



In the case of RD also depends a bit on what folks mean when they say rope drop. To me, RD is when the rope drops, others take it to mean being at the park an hour before it opens. In fact, I think someone argued that earlier in this thread. they arrived an hour before the park opened and couldn't figure out why others didn't want to do the same.

In any event, the news over the past few weeks...is disheartening. Genie plus seems like just a small part of the problem to me. Like a tiny metaphor for something much bigger.

 

[Chi84]

not important....but you made several other posts along the same lines, that was just the first one I found. I think what you maybe were trying to say is that rope drop doesn't work for your family, but you left that 'for your family' off some of your posts in this thread. I appreciate your further explanation and larger point.



In the case of RD also depends a bit on what folks mean when they say rope drop. To me, RD is when the rope drops, others take it to mean being at the park an hour before it opens. In fact, I think someone argued that earlier in this thread. they arrived an hour before the park opened and couldn't figure out why others didn't want to do the same.

In any event, the news over the past few weeks...is disheartening. Genie plus seems like just a small part of the problem to me. Like a tiny metaphor for something much bigger.

Well I’m not strictly limiting my opinions to my own family, but we do tend to be influenced by our own life experiences.

For example, my mother struggled with pain from arthritis in her back, so she wouldn’t have been running to an attraction at 1 am with her family whooping it up behind her. We needed to be a bit more careful in what we planned in order to accommodate her.

On our last trip, two of the babies were still on feeding schedules. So when we reserved an ILL for 1:05 and it was confirmed for 3:40, it was an issue we had to work around.

Some systems work better for planners; others work better for people who want spontaneity. Disney has its work cut out for it in adopting a system without alienating a good number of its guests.

 

[GhostHost1000]

They already had the perfect system in maxpass at DL, sadly that was thrown out for Genie+ also. It likely only worked because DL has twice as many rides as any of the WDW parks though.

Disney keeps trying to change the system but they never seem to grasp that adding capacity is going to be necessary to make any system work.



When a companies changes make “go offsite” one of the best options they’ve got a serious problem as a company.

Especially when that company has spent tens of billions of dollars over the last couple decades doing everything possible to keep people from ever leaving their property.

People will absolutely adapt, I’m not sure Disney intended us to adapt to the point of going elsewhere though.

It’s amazing how they have removed magical express, many resort guest perks, dining plan, and annual passes and think that is going to keep people coming back

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s amazing how they have removed magical express, many resort guest perks, dining plan, and annual passes and think that is going to keep people coming back

…you noticed that too, huh?

 

[Jrb1979]

It’s amazing how they have removed magical express, many resort guest perks, dining plan, and annual passes and think that is going to keep people coming back

Right now people are showing perks aren't needed.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Right now people are showing perks aren't needed.

everyone is getting that trip in from not being able to go during Covid or when things weren’t as normal. Also many are taking this trip with a lot of things changed including genie+ and with the feedback they are getting, I wouldn’t be surprised to start seeing some drop offs in attendance next year

Dvc resale listings are already through the roof which is an early sign from some of their most loyal guests

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

everyone is getting that trip in from not being able to go during Covid or when things weren’t as normal. Also many are taking this trip with a lot of things changed including genie+ and with the feedback they are getting, I wouldn’t be surprised to start seeing some drop offs in attendance next year

Dvc resale listings are already through the roof which is an early sign from some of their most loyal guests

I had a DVC guy in the lobby of DAKL stop me and say “everything’s for sale but grand Californian!”

I found that both hilarious and appalling…it’s pretty easy to see how they got themselves in that position.

 

[Prince-1]

It’s amazing how they have removed magical express, many resort guest perks, dining plan, and annual passes and think that is going to keep people coming back

And yet they are and probably won't be stopping any time soon.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And yet they are and probably won't be stopping any time soon.

Economics is the only things that “stops” the wdw traveler. There’s no mystery here.

Travel is on track as of now for a big slowdown/let up as we stand.

What’s worse is I think the operators secretly want it.

 

[Jrb1979]

everyone is getting that trip in from not being able to go during Covid or when things weren’t as normal. Also many are taking this trip with a lot of things changed including genie+ and with the feedback they are getting, I wouldn’t be surprised to start seeing some drop offs in attendance next year

Dvc resale listings are already through the roof which is an early sign from some of their most loyal guests

When attendance drops off Disney will what they always do and offer discounts.

 

[crazy4disney]

When attendance drops off Disney will what they always do and offer discounts.

They may raise prices 1st to see if they can make up the difference that way 1st lol

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I had a DVC guy in the lobby of DAKL stop me and say “everything’s for sale but grand Californian!”

I found that both hilarious and appalling…it’s pretty easy to see how they got themselves in that position.

I'm still surprised (and happy) that the price for VGF dropped so low when they started selling points for the "new" rooms. Given the length remaining on those contracts they're a better deal than most (if not all) other resorts at the moment.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm still surprised (and happy) that the price for VGF dropped so low when they started selling points for the "new" rooms. Given the length remaining on those contracts they're a better deal than most (if not all) other resorts at the moment.

Let it drop…”burn, baby, burn”

That stupid blocking of sales with RoFR is coming home to roost

 

[GhostHost1000]

When attendance drops off Disney will what they always do and offer discounts.

But what they don’t understand is it won’t be enough. The changes they have made won’t be fixed with discounts

Like being offered a broken down car for $1500 vs $500. I still don’t want a broken down car

 

[lazyboy97o]

But what they don’t understand is it won’t be enough. The changes they have made won’t be fixed with discounts

Like being offered a broken down car for $1500 vs $500. I still don’t want a broken down car

It’s also not going to be fixed by reservation and virtual management schemes. There are deep structural problems that must be fixed and that’s something that is going to take time, money and pain that Disney does not understand and cannot justify.

 

[Roy G. Dis]

Do we have any data on if things are better, worse, same since they started "limiting" sales of Genie +?

No, but can I interest you in the same fights and arguments you've probably read through five times alerady?