Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[RSoxNo1]

What is the drawback of including unnecessary attractions?

Why does it matter if it includes “unnecessary” attractions? Under the old FP system where your got 3 you could argue that those rides artificially increases the available pool of 3 selections. Under genie it’s a l cart. You take advantage of the ones you like, skip ones you don’t. Besides skipping even a 10min wait for a ride to me is worth the genie pick. Especially as you can make another selection after using one. Arguably 2 up charge rides per park might not be perfect now, you have to consider a year or two out. Add Guardians to Epcott and then Tron to MK, and your starting to get a good mix of paid LL per park. Especially as you then get 2 new “premium” rides (likely frozen and space mountain) falling into the genie plus selections.

In short, it's deception.

The original Fastpass+ conceit was that they needed more offerings to justify the value. Now that they're charging for it that has never been more true. Everyone on here knows that no two Fastpasses / Lightning Lanes are created equal and the value of $15 Lightning Lane is more valuable at MK than any other park (usually).

The paper fastpass system allowed them to turn off Fastpass when the demand wasn't there. I have no issue with attractions like Spaceship Earth, Mad Tea Party and Imagination having Fastpass on an as needed basis, but the reality is, it's probably not needed at several rides on 300 days of the year. But that doesn't fit the narrative of "it's available at X amount of attractions at this park".

As for Fastpass+ for shows, it has rarely been a benefit.

I view this as a positive, assuming it remains permanent. If I'm going during those two weeks though I may be upset about this because I won't be able to pay my way onto two attractions per park during high crowds. However, I think ultimately this is the right move though because we know from Fastpass+ that the parks struggled to get 3 "valuable" Fastpass+ reservations per park. If they're now charging $15 for the day, you need to get 3-4 lightning lane's to justify that price. For those wondering how I got to 3-4 attractions, Disney established that the non-Individual Lightning Lane selections are valued at less than $7 per ride.

There are some significant issues brewing around Genie+. I'll have more later.

Looking forward to this.

 

[pdude81]

With the crowds that are coming, they don't have the number of passes needed for G+ to be acceptable without the ILL rides. This may well be a temporary or "seasonal" thing in times of high demand. I wouldn't read too much into it until we see whether it goes back to normal after the new year.

 

[orky8]

They already did this and it completely worked. When attendance started to slide in 2019 due to price increases, they were able to point to a 7% increase in revenue and honestly, that's all the investors care about.

The only scenario where this is an issue, is if attendance AND revenue fall.




It's only confusing and frustrating because they're trying to make everyone happy. We could all go back to having the same experience we had in the 80s and 90s if they would just increase the admission to $300 or $400 a day. They won't do it because they're worried too many people would be priced out.

Or we could all go back to that experience if Disney invested its money in attractions to match capacity these past 30 years. MK attendance has skyrocketed in 30 years. Total hourly attraction capacity has stayed roughly the same.

 

[el_super]

Or we could all go back to that experience if Disney invested its money in attractions to match capacity these past 30 years. MK attendance has skyrocketed in 30 years. Total hourly attraction capacity has stayed roughly the same.

No. That's not how it works.

 

[el_super]

With the crowds that are coming, they don't have the number of passes needed for G+ to be acceptable without the ILL rides. This may well be a temporary or "seasonal" thing in times of high demand. I wouldn't read too much into it until we see whether it goes back to normal after the new year.

Yeah but high demand where? Are too many people purchasing Genie+? I would think that the prices for the individual attractions were set at a level that would make them more profitable than Genie+ sales, but if Genie+ is in such high demand, I'm guessing the sales there (or potential sales) outweigh whatever they were making with ILL.

I was partly hoping they would simplify the system by making everything an additional charge, but this seems counter to that idea.

 

[pdude81]

Yeah but high demand where? Are too many people purchasing Genie+? I would think that the prices for the individual attractions were set at a level that would make them more profitable than Genie+ sales, but if Genie+ is in such high demand, I'm guessing the sales there (or potential sales) outweigh whatever they were making with ILL.

I was partly hoping they would simplify the system by making everything an additional charge, but this seems counter to that idea.

On Christmas week, yes, I expect very high demand. Other times perhaps you can pick and choose, but when the crowds are insane I expect the ability to purchase in app will be an easy add for most people. I'm not sure if their idea is to pull back some of the ILL to G+ for each day or just for the holiday, but what I was saying is just that it's too early to know which way this is heading. I have zero inside information on it. Just an outside analysis.

 

[Thepuma]

Leta be

Because they think the demand will go down??? That's a bold move.

Let's be honest...Space Mountain is one of the worst rides in ANY Disney Park and its mind bogling why it was ever chosen, let alone who would pay $7 each to ride. I'd have thought JC or HM...but SM? Very strange decision, till now.

Everest again was a bizarre one..yes the ride is brilliant, but the queues hardly ever go over 30 minutes. I was amazed The Safari wasn't the 2nd AK LL+, or even Navi River.

MnMRR and Frozen is a good touch.

We did MnMRR three times on our trip and absolutely loved it...trouble is (like Small World) the tune sticks in your head constantly...."NOTHING can stop us now" lol

To be honest I'm not exactly in the target audience for frozen but did once try it wondering what I was missing....90 minutes we waited and was so underwhelmed. But could see why it would be a LL+ due to the waits.

 

[Waters Back Side]

All this means is for busy weeks like the ones coming up, less Genie + rides available after your first choice. Wont change SDD being gone in the first 30 minutes.

So at HS now we can buy Rise at 7am and pick 1 Genie+ like before. MMRR being on Genie + wont change how quick the ride slots are gone for the others. In fact it is worse because now it forces people to buy Genie when they might have been fine doing just the ILLs and then after their first ride choice (which might not even be the one they wanted) they will have not a lot left at 11AM to choose from without conflicting with other plans or even missing out on the ride all together.

Example...Ill buy Rise. According to many there is no way Ill be able to get SDD for Genie + as well. So Ill pick RNRC. Now I have 2 rides. Come 11 MMRR will be gone as will the others.

 

[Thepuma]

Agreed. 7am is the only time that currently works for all park opens. Although with the move to 60 minute early entry during the next few weeks, there's going to be a lot of people trying to book LL whilst rope dropping. Could lead to all kinds of hilarity.

The obvious answer is to open it at Park Open...and therefore keeping the resort guests happy as they have 30 minutes Genie Booking ahead of non resort guests.

 

[Waters Back Side]

With the crowds that are coming, they don't have the number of passes needed for G+ to be acceptable without the ILL rides. This may well be a temporary or "seasonal" thing in times of high demand. I wouldn't read too much into it until we see whether it goes back to normal after the new year.

It is not going to change anything though. Putting MMRR on Genie + will not make SDD available for longer. Nor will it mean at 11AM suddenly there is a ton more to pick from. At best it might make a combo of RNRC and Smugglers Run or SDD and ToT possible in the same day. Putting EE on Genie + wont make KS at AK available for longer into the day. Frozen will not mean Test Track will suddenly be available into the afternoon. Referring to the busy weeks.

 

[Thepuma]

In short, it's deception.

The original Fastpass+ conceit was that they needed more offerings to justify the value. Now that they're charging for it that has never been more true. Everyone on here knows that no two Fastpasses / Lightning Lanes are created equal and the value of $15 Lightning Lane is more valuable at MK than any other park (usually).

The paper fastpass system allowed them to turn off Fastpass when the demand wasn't there. I have no issue with attractions like Spaceship Earth, Mad Tea Party and Imagination having Fastpass on an as needed basis, but the reality is, it's probably not needed at several rides on 300 days of the year. But that doesn't fit the narrative of "it's available at X amount of attractions at this park".

As for Fastpass+ for shows, it has rarely been a benefit.



I view this as a positive, assuming it remains permanent. If I'm going during those two weeks though I may be upset about this because I won't be able to pay my way onto two attractions per park during high crowds. However, I think ultimately this is the right move though because we know from Fastpass+ that the parks struggled to get 3 "valuable" Fastpass+ reservations per park. If they're now charging $15 for the day, you need to get 3-4 lightning lane's to justify that price. For those wondering how I got to 3-4 attractions, Disney established that the non-Individual Lightning Lane selections are valued at less than $7 per ride.



Looking forward to this.

I see MnMRR being put on the G+ list as a huge negative. The only reason we managed to get on it 3 times on our break was because we paid for it. The stand by lanes were crazy times and with so many other long lines in that park, we couldn't wait 90 minutes for that ride, as good as it is.

 

[HauntedPirate]

The only reason we managed to get on it 3 times on our break was because we paid for it.

 

[Touchdown]

MMRR is not bad, so long as it doesn’t breakdown. 30-45 min if contained in the queue.

 

[NelsonRD]

Is Genie+ struggling? I have no experience, and other than negative reviews, when I log in the MDE app, at 12pm, popular attractions are showing 6pm return times. Checking now at 3pm, several attractions have no offerings, other attractions 5-6pm return time, and less popular attractions are at least 30 minutes out. This suggest people are buying it?

 

[hopemax]

Yeah, I am not sure adding these 4 to Genie+ is going to actually improve the situation for anyone. Right now it’s 3PM and there are still ILLs for Everest, Space and the last few remaining for Frozen. This gives guests a choice to participate as late as 3PM. Putting them on Genie+ will just make them sell out as fast as the rest of Genie+. They will be gone by noon. So Genie+ guests will still have the same disappointment of not getting selections for good rides after their first 2 only now the ILL buyers are out of luck too.

 

[Touchdown]

If you don’t think that FEA, Space, Everest or MMRR aren’t going to be choice 1 or 2 in their respective parks on G+ you all are crazy.

 

[Waters Back Side]

Yeah, I am not sure adding these 4 to Genie+ is going to actually improve the situation for anyone. Right now it’s 3PM and there are still ILLs for Everest, Space and the last few remaining for Frozen. This gives guests a choice to participate as late as 3PM. Putting them on Genie+ will just make them sell out as fast as the rest of Genie+. They will be gone by noon. So Genie+ guests will still have the same disappointment of not getting selections for good rides after their first 2 only now the ILL buyers are out of luck too.

The way Thanksgiving went they didnt even get a good choice with Genie + after their first 1! Let alone 2. Anyone who wanted both Rise (to buy) and SDD as their 1st Genie choice had to choose one or the other. MMRR being a Genie + choice does nothing to change that. It also does not change the fact that at 11am there will be more options.

 

[Patcheslee]

If you don’t think that FEA, Space, Everest or MMRR aren’t going to be choice 1 or 2 in their respective parks on G+ you all are crazy.

The only one personally I'd see us as choice 1 is Space because for some strange reason DD13 likes it. I wouldn't pay for it as an ILL though.
MMRR we haven't been on yet, but MFSR is higher priority as we haven't been since GE opened.

 

[Nunu]

I'm set on not paying extra to ride anything. I've been here for 5 days, with 3 more to go, and have riden everything I've wanted so far. Wait times have been inflated for every ride during my stay, sometimes by 30+ minutes.

 

[arich35]

On top of the crap this morning. ROTR has been down for over 3 hours. Going to have to get a refund