Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Thepuma]

What was the problem though for Disney to make this new system? 1) Lack of money or 2) the FP system not working for everyone?

If its 1) and not 2) then simply charge for FP+

If its 2) only then just make FP+ only available on the day, but free.

If its 1 and 2 then do both. Why the need for a new complicated system.

I've just not found a single reason why Disney spent their money on Genie? And made a hugely more complicated system? The FP+ system wasn't that broke that it couldn't have been resolved with a few small tweets...be it no pre park day FP+ and/or a charge to use it.

Just use the FP+ system but charge for it and have it on the day only....all boxes ticked. It doesn't need a complicated new system.

It's dumb thinking...." I know, day guests are annoyed that the best FP are chosen by the time they get into the park.....so I will create a complicated and expensive system so the same guests still don't get on the rides..,problem solved"

It feels like Disney is being run by college students or kids with absolutely no clue how the real world works...its embarrassing

 

[pdude81]

What was the problem though for Disney to make this new system? Lack of money or the FP system not working for everyone?

If its 1) but 2) is not, then simply charge for FP+

If its 2) only then just make FP+ only available on the day, but free.

I've just not found a single reason why Disney spent their money on Genie? And made a hugely more complicated system? The FP+ system wasn't that broke that it couldn't have been resolved with a few small tweets...be it no pre park day FP+ and/or a charge to use it.

Just use the FP+ system but charge for it and have it on the day only....all boxes ticked. It doesn't need a comically system.

It's dumb thinking...." I know, day guests are annoyed that the best FP are chosen by the time they get into the park.....so I will create a complicated and expensive system so the same guests still don't get on the rides..,problem solved"

It feels like Disney is being run by college students or kids with absolutely no clue how the real world works...its embarrassing

FP+ had a fatal flaw in that everybody got 3 of them per entry for free, and they said they'd never make you pay for fastpass. They used it to the full extend they could to maximize margins from operations, but then couldn't handle the demand any longer. I think they also thought they were missing out on money people spent at TouringPlans to figure out how best accomplish their goals.

Now they needed to still be able to push people to rides that would have short waits otherwise, but make people pay for the privilege of doing so. What they were not assuming is that the pandemic would force them to set reservations on who could enter which park each day, and when they could park hop. That was a "gift". Genie gives them vastly more freedom on scheduling side with us paying for the right to use it.

This system actually gives day guests a much better shot at good rides than they would have had otherwise, at the expense of on-site pre-booked stays. Someone has to lose in every system. I am just not sure what you mean by saying they should use FP+ but day of only. That seems to be almost what they did here, and nobody likes it. It's more Maxpass than FP+ but they can't let those in the know get all of their picks right at 7 while everybody else has nothing left.

Another reason they'd want to move to a "next available" type system is that it allows for them to be flexible with park hours and ride operations. You booked your Tier 1 for Test Track but that's going to be down for maintenance the week you go. Perhaps you would have picked Soarin but now there's nothing left that doesn't conflict with other plans. Or if a ride goes down mid-morning, they could pull it from the "next available" slots and avoid having to give you a multiple experiences pass.

 

[Thepuma]

FP+ had a fatal flaw in that everybody got 3 of them per entry for free, and they said they'd never make you pay for fastpass. They used it to the full extend they could to maximize margins from operations, but then couldn't handle the demand any longer. I think they also thought they were missing out on money people spent at TouringPlans to figure out how best accomplish their goals.

Now they needed to still be able to push people to rides that would have short waits otherwise, but make people pay for the privilege of doing so. What they were not assuming is that the pandemic would force them to set reservations on who could enter which park each day, and when they could park hop. That was a "gift". Genie gives them vastly more freedom on scheduling side with us paying for the right to use it.

This system actually gives day guests a much better shot at good rides than they would have had otherwise, at the expense of on-site pre-booked stays. Someone has to lose in every system. I am just not sure what you mean by saying they should use FP+ but day of only. That seems to be almost what they did here, and nobody likes it. It's more Maxpass than FP+ but they can't let those in the know get all of their picks right at 7 while everybody else has nothing left.

Another reason they'd want to move to a "next available" type system is that it allows for them to be flexible with park hours and ride operations. You booked your Tier 1 for Test Track but that's going to be down for maintenance the week you go. Perhaps you would have picked Soarin but now there's nothing left that doesn't conflict with other plans. Or if a ride goes down mid-morning, they could pull it from the "next available" slots and avoid having to give you a multiple experiences pass.

So if capacity was the issue (or should we say, too many people with too many passes) - simply keep the much superior and easier FP+ system but charge $50? That will seriously reduce uptake and therefore seriously reduce the number of FP+ Selections...while also killing the 2nd bird of making more money.

 

[pdude81]

So if capacity was the issue (or should we say, too many people with too many passes) - simply keep the much superior and easier FP+ system but charge $50? That will seriously reduce uptake and therefore seriously reduce the number of FP+ Selections...while also killing the 2nd bird of making more money.

They could and likely should have just charged for Fastpass+. Even at $15 per admission it would have worked fine, as some would not want to pay the money based on their selections. But you have then an issue with certain groups getting 60 day access versus 30 day access, and the continued complaints that we had to schedule everything so far in advance. This was their attempt at saying they were offering something more "due to guest feedback" and that something more is what we're paying for. I expect there would have been a lot of people that showed up expecting it to be free and freaking out also, but those guests should have been aware by the 30 day mark that an upcharge would be required.

I cant believe they had the guts to tell us they'd be automatically updating dining reservations if ride times were in conflict.

 

[el_super]

So if capacity was the issue (or should we say, too many people with too many passes) - simply keep the much superior and easier FP+ system but charge $50? That will seriously reduce uptake and therefore seriously reduce the number of FP+ Selections...while also killing the 2nd bird of making more money.

I don't think it's a matter of just straight capacity, but also one of booking flexibility. If a majority of your capacity is selling out 60 days in advance, what happens to people who want to take a trip 30 days out? Or 15 days out? Do they get completely locked out of having ride availability and if so, would they still book a trip? What's also a great benefit of doing everything day-of is that, if you missed out on booking anything on your first day, due to not knowing about the system, you have the opportunity on Day 2, or Day 3 to figure it out.

I think what we're mostly seeing with Genie+ though is a transition from FP+ to a system that greatly reduces front of the line demand. They're trying to improve the experience for everyone, not just the hyper-planners. So they need to keep the line skipping to a minimum.

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

After using Genie+ on both coasts, WDW is a poor value compared to DL/DCA.

I went to WDW on Saturday 12/11 and was able to use 5 lightning lanes and 1 IAS at MK. We got to the park at about 11 am. I got my first LL for Jungle Cruise at 7 am. Was only able to fit in 4 more LL after that. I bought Space Mountain for $7 each. We stayed until about 11 pm. Wanted to give it about a 12 hour run in both.

The next day we hopped on a plane and got to DL at noon west coast time and left at 11 pm. We were able to do 12 LLs between DL and DCA. The longest we had to wait for our LL time was about 40 min and that was one time. Every other one was available right at booking time. With the way things are trending, I'm finding DL to be a better value in this Cheap-ek Era. Hopefully they don't read this and ruin it...

 

[Thepuma]

I don't think it's a matter of just straight capacity, but also one of booking flexibility. If a majority of your capacity is selling out 60 days in advance, what happens to people who want to take a trip 30 days out? Or 15 days out? Do they get completely locked out of having ride availability and if so, would they still book a trip? What's also a great benefit of doing everything day-of is that, if you missed out on booking anything on your first day, due to not knowing about the system, you have the opportunity on Day 2, or Day 3 to figure it out.

I think what we're mostly seeing with Genie+ though is a transition from FP+ to a system that greatly reduces front of the line demand. They're trying to improve the experience for everyone, not just the hyper-planners. So they need to keep the line skipping to a minimum.

They won't sell out though...as they will charge (in my scenario) $50 pp pd and therefore FP+ reservations will be at least half what they are now, if not even smaller.

 

[Jeff4272]

They won't sell out though...as they will charge (in my scenario) $50 pp pd and therefore FP+ reservations will be at least half what they are now, if not even smaller.

Thats almost what the cost is now......If you buy ROTR, MMRR and Genie+, it's $40 correct?

 

[el_super]

They won't sell out though...as they will charge (in my scenario) $50 pp pd and therefore FP+ reservations will be at least half what they are now, if not even smaller.

Maybe a sliding scale that will ensure availability will persist... like making them $100+ in order to book 60 days in advance, and then cheaper the closer it gets.

 

[Jeff4272]

Maybe a sliding scale that will ensure availability will persist... like making them $100+ in order to book 60 days in advance, and then cheaper the closer it gets.

Wow......i actually like this idea and might be first thing youve said that i agree with

 

[Casper Gutman]

After using Genie+ on both coasts, WDW is a poor value compared to DL/DCA.

I went to WDW on Saturday 12/11 and was able to use 5 lightning lanes and 1 IAS at MK. We got to the park at about 11 am. I got my first LL for Jungle Cruise at 7 am. Was only able to fit in 4 more LL after that. I bought Space Mountain for $7 each. We stayed until about 11 pm. Wanted to give it about a 12 hour run in both.

The next day we hopped on a plane and got to DL at noon west coast time and left at 11 pm. We were able to do 12 LLs between DL and DCA. The longest we had to wait for our LL time was about 40 min and that was one time. Every other one was available right at booking time. With the way things are trending, I'm finding DL to be a better value in this Cheap-ek Era. Hopefully they don't read this and ruin it...

It’s almost like the real issue is capacity, and breaking a broken system in new ways fixes nothing.

 

[Thepuma]

Thats almost what the cost is now......If you buy ROTR, MMRR and Genie+, it's $40 correct?

Well, in theory for 'some' yes...but what percentage of total visitors per day actually do (or want to do) ROTR?

Do families with small children want to? Possibly not..maybe some.

I just think FP+ service was perfect, it just needed 1 tweek to get the people using it down..and that tweek is cost. Once you charge $50 each (or $60 or $70) you will immediately reduce the people using FP by 3/4. Thus solving the problem.

FP+ was simple...it was easy...it was clear, there wasn't different times for different scenarios and different charges for different rides at different times....there was nothing wrong with it.

The resort guests will still have that benefit of 60 days in advance as opposed to 30...but much much less will pay the $70 or whatever it works out at, to buy it...so by the time 30 days comes around there will still be FP for SDD...SDMT...FOP.

Or even better still, only allow FP+ reservations once you're in the park. This will mean more rope.dropping and voila...Disney has people in the parks for longer...another one of their aims.

It's such a simple thing to resolve, but Disney tried to change it to make it look like you were getting this amazing new service for your $15, when in effect, all they have done is create the same system but so.many caveats that half the people haven't got a clue what is going on....of course, other than seasons users.

 

[Thepuma]

Maybe a sliding scale that will ensure availability will persist... like making them $100+ in order to book 60 days in advance, and then cheaper the closer it gets.

It's a decent idea, but still...its not straightforward, it changes constantly and it really need not be so difficult to solve the Disney problem. A simple revert back to FP+ but charging $60 dollars for it...job done. Its just so simple.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Despite the cost, I like Lightning Lane much better than FP+. The system absolutely needs to be tweaked though. Two upcharge attractions per park doesn't make a lot of sense when you back into what you can actually ride with Lightning Lane. If they dropped the $15 charge for Lightning Lane, removed the unnecessary attractions that they include to "add value" (shows, typical walk ons, etc) then it would be fine.

Part of the reason people liked MaxPass is that it didn't include unnecessary attractions. The other MaxPass decision that I prefer is that you can only use it once you've checked into the park.

Why does it matter if it includes “unnecessary” attractions? Under the old FP system where your got 3 you could argue that those rides artificially increases the available pool of 3 selections. Under genie it’s a l cart. You take advantage of the ones you like, skip ones you don’t. Besides skipping even a 10min wait for a ride to me is worth the genie pick. Especially as you can make another selection after using one. Arguably 2 up charge rides per park might not be perfect now, you have to consider a year or two out. Add Guardians to Epcott and then Tron to MK, and your starting to get a good mix of paid LL per park. Especially as you then get 2 new “premium” rides (likely frozen and space mountain) falling into the genie plus selections.

 

[TikibirdLand]

It's a decent idea, but still...its not straightforward, it changes constantly and it really need not be so difficult to solve the Disney problem. A simple revert back to FP+ but charging $60 dollars for it...job done. Its just so simple.

charge my family another $300? I don't think so. All of these "solutions" are a big "nope" for us. There's a big beautiful world out there to visit. WDW lost it's position on our list. It's gotta change.

 

[arich35]

Does anyone know how fast ROTR lighting lanes sell out? We are wanting to get one before 5 PM if possible, we are staying at a resort so will be doing it right at 7

 

[G00fyDad]

Does anyone know how fast ROTR lighting lanes sell out? We are wanting to get one before 5 PM if possible, we are staying at a resort so will be doing it right at 7

They're already gone.

 

[dirtnap101]

Does anyone know how fast ROTR lighting lanes sell out? We are wanting to get one before 5 PM if possible, we are staying at a resort so will be doing it right at 7

If you start at 7am (helpful to check your phone's time vs an Atomic clock app), and keep checking to 7:15 until you get something, you should have a pretty good chance of getting a time before 5pm, but it also heavily depends on the crowd level during your visit

 

[BrianLo]

Does anyone know how fast ROTR lighting lanes sell out? We are wanting to get one before 5 PM if possible, we are staying at a resort so will be doing it right at 7

As a resort guest, you'll be fine unless you are talking about a sold out holiday day.

Twice I was able to still book RoTR at 9, as a non-resort guest. The week after Thanksgiving.

A modern cellphone will accurately tell you the time.

 

[arich35]

Buying an ILL isn't even an option on the app right now, what is going on