Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[crazy4disney]

There's no need for a 5th park when DAK empties out by 6PM, Epcot is half abandoned/disrepair/missing, DHS is missing its identity.

i would agree for years i felt a 5th park was what was needed until you actually realize how underbuilt 3 of the 4 parks are right now.... and to me the 5th park went out the waste side once they decided on building Galaxy's edge in HS... they could have anchored a park based on that IP along w any Marvel allowed and built around that...

 

[lazyboy97o]

The answer to most of these problems is many many attraction additions

This is a problem Disney has created themselves and made worse overtime. It’s honestly baffling to me how poorly planned some of this is

The problem now is how do they solve this in the short term without losing guest interest in visiting because it’s such a stressful mess

Virtual queue/reservation systems require more capacity to function, which is exactly why such systems are not even a true short term solution. They just make a bad situation worse.

I thought everyone agreed that new attractions = more demand = not the answer?

Induced demand is not a given. It depends on a variety of factors. What the parks need are smaller scale experiences that people discover during their day, not big marquee experiences that draw people to the park.

 

[dmw]

See to me 60 minutes window is too much bc it potentially creates a logjam. If you want to create a system that is simply pay as you go. Its just that. Instant. 15-20 min max per ride to get on asap. Not that agree with this type of system personally think its a terrible idea but definitely an interesting concept for people who are willing but then in theory we are back to square 1 a basic full standby system which i think we are all in agreement the parks cant handle.

After some thought, I think I agree that there should not be a window for return. You walk up, if the ILL price is agreeable, you tap your MB+ (or scan app QR code) and a card on file is billed immediately. No reserving in advance. This could work very much like the express toll lanes work in some larger cities. The price changes based on usage and standby wait times.

 

[crazy4disney]

After some thought, I think I agree that there should not be a window for return. You walk up, if the ILL price is agreeable, you tap your MB+ (or scan app QR code) and a card on file is billed immediately. No reserving in advance. This could work very much like the express toll lanes work in some larger cities. The price changes based on usage and standby wait times.

still dont think it works bc unless you know a fixed price for a set time frame people will be wandering aimlessly and again standby lines will still be too long and solves no problems imo .... i will still stick w my gut and simply say go back to a FP style system charge for it.. reduce the time you have to book if that really was an issue which again to me is bs as we still have park ressies needed and dining as well and call it a day... you wanna reduce 3 rides to 2.. so be it still better than what we have now...

 

[Purduevian]

At the end of the day, everyone needs to remember that capacity on a given ride is generally consistent. However on almost every ride at WDW, demand for that ride outweighs the capacity.
Disney needs to decide the best way to distribute that capacity in whatever way they deem appropriate.

Standby only gave capacity to whomever was willing to wait longer than others
FP gave capacity to whomever 1)knew the system 2) prioritized that attraction and 3)Got there before it sold out for the day
FP+ gave capacity to whomever 1)knew the system 2)prioritized that attraction as one of their top 3 3)paid for an onsite hotel 4)booked early enough before it sold out
G+ gives capacity to whomever 1)knows the system 2)pays $15 3)prioritizes that attraction 4)Books early enough before it sells out.

Remember while many of us are sad we can no longer book 7D, Space, and Pan ahead of time. If you don't get on Pan for instance, that spot is now going to someone that would not have ridden Pan otherwise.

Us that really miss the system were friends with "the FP+ monster" while it had a negative impact on those that were not friends with the monster.

Now with G+ you don't have to be friends with the monster 60 days out to benefit. All you need is $15 and knowledge at 7am the day of (or even later depending on what rides you want). The problem is, too many people are friends with the monster now.

 

[crazy4disney]

At the end of the day, everyone needs to remember that capacity on a given ride is generally consistent. However on almost every ride at WDW, demand for that ride outweighs the capacity.
Disney needs to decide the best way to distribute that capacity in whatever way they deem appropriate.

Standby only gave capacity to whomever was willing to wait longer than others
FP gave capacity to whomever 1)knew the system 2) prioritized that attraction and 3)Got there before it sold out for the day
FP+ gave capacity to whomever 1)knew the system 2)prioritized that attraction as one of their top 3 3)paid for an onsite hotel 4)booked early enough before it sold out
G+ gives capacity to whomever 1)knows the system 2)pays $15 3)prioritizes that attraction 4)Books early enough before it sells out.

Remember while many of us are sad we can no longer book 7D, Space, and Pan ahead of time. If you don't get on Pan for instance, that spot is now going to someone that would not have ridden Pan otherwise.

Us that really miss the system were friends with "the FP+ monster" while it had a negative impact on those that were not friends with the monster.

Now with G+ you don't have to be friends with the monster 60 days out to benefit. All you need is $15 and knowledge at 7am the day of (or even later depending on what rides you want). The problem is, too many people are friends with the monster now.

Everyone had a choice to be friends with said FP monster and it allowed you to actually choose how you wanted to be friends with it.... morning person noon person or an evening person... yes i still believe on site deserved some priority over off site and plenty have said off site was NOT as bad as advertised... not to mention we all knew availability popped up during the day in each park whether it be by drops or cancels or modifications... genie does none of this and is basically a VQ lotto for every park at 7am with 10's of thousands of people using the same crappy tech... Disney basically has you plan everything except the one major thing that most people go to Disney for rides & attractions.

 

[LittleBuford]

FP+ gave capacity to whomever 1)knew the system 2)prioritized that attraction as one of their top 3 3)paid for an onsite hotel 4)booked early enough before it sold out

In my experience, the day-of inventory seldom ran out (rather than sold out, since it was free) before the evening. You could almost always get something worthwhile by refreshing the app every now and then.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

More attractions = more demand. They don't necessarily mean "more people."
If you still keep the park capacity capped, the same amount of people will be spread out over more attractions. Obviously the "new thing" will be the biggest draw but with more options, people won't look at it as the "only draw." These attractions also need to be people-eaters.

This is the reason why Magic Kingdom works better than the other 3 parks. More attraction/ride options.

Disney doesn't want these long wait times in lines. The longer the lines, the less time buying food/merchandise. (Although maybe that's partly why Mobile Ordering came to be...)

 

[crazy4disney]

In my experience, the day-of inventory seldom ran out (rather than sold out, since it was free) before the evening. You could almost always get something worthwhile by refreshing the app every now and then.

exactly and as ive stated i have DAS and honestly most of my skip the lines were from FP as opposed to DAS system bc as you said there were plenty of worthy options during the day simply by refreshing and periodically checking.. & honestly it really wasnt that difficult or time consuming as this would be done walking online via FP lane or walking off ride or while eating a snack. i get it we all want to detach from the real world on vacation and leave our phones at the door but using a phone as part of your vacation to me is not an issue... & lets face it most people are on their phones anyway taking pics to post to social media so... to me these are nothing buy excuses... they wanted to make money off FP which is their right all they needed to do was say that and call it a day....

 

[Purduevian]

Everyone had a choice to be friends with said FP monster and it allowed you to actually choose how you wanted to be friends with it.... morning person noon person or an evening person... yes i still believe on site deserved some priority over off site and plenty have said off site was NOT as bad as advertised... not to mention we all knew availability popped up during the day in each park whether it be by drops or cancels or modifications... genie does none of this and is basically a VQ lotto for every park at 7am with 10's of thousands of people using the same crappy tech... Disney basically has you plan everything except the one major thing that most people go to Disney for rides & attractions.

I still think you vastly over-estimate the knowledge and planning the average person does for a Disney park. Yes people could put in the research, but many haven't been there in decades and assume it works the same as before.

Also availability does pop up during the day for almost every attraction. right now it's 1:40pm. A quick check of DHS shows the following sold out: SDD, ROTR, and TOT. In literally 1 refresh a 3:10pm TOT popped up. I do wish it had a modify button though.

In my experience, the day-of inventory seldom ran out (rather than sold out, since it was free) before the evening. You could almost always get something worthwhile by refreshing the app every now and then.

The most popular rides sold out 60+ days out. The last time I went I was an onsite guest and SDD was sold out 60+1 days out from my trip! FOP was 60+4 days out and I had to settle for a late afternoon slot.

I'm not saying G+ is perfect or even good, but lets not pretend that FP+ was a perfect system. In fact there are a FEW things I like about G+ over FP+ (overall i preferred FP+)

 

[GhostHost1000]

There's no need for a 5th park when DAK empties out by 6PM, Epcot is half abandoned/disrepair/missing, DHS is missing its identity.

That is why I said to expand every park first

 

[LittleBuford]

The most popular rides sold out 60+ days out. The last time I went I was an onsite guest and SDD was sold out 60+1 days out from my trip! FOP was 60+4 days out and I had to settle for a late afternoon slot.

I'm not saying G+ is perfect or even good, but lets not pretend that FP+ was a perfect system. In fact there are a FEW things I like about G+ over FP+ (overall i preferred FP+)

Except for Magic Kingdom, new inventory was released throughout the day in all the parks. You could get FoP FastPasses on the actual day of your visit if you happened to check the app after one of these releases. While I won't pretend that FP+ was perfect, the idea that everything worthwhile was snapped up sixty days beforehand simply isn't true.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Everyone had a choice to be friends with said FP monster and it allowed you to actually choose how you wanted to be friends with it.... morning person noon person or an evening person... yes i still believe on site deserved some priority over off site and plenty have said off site was NOT as bad as advertised... not to mention we all knew availability popped up during the day in each park whether it be by drops or cancels or modifications... genie does none of this and is basically a VQ lotto for every park at 7am with 10's of thousands of people using the same crappy tech... Disney basically has you plan everything except the one major thing that most people go to Disney for rides & attractions.

100%

 

[GhostHost1000]

I still think you vastly over-estimate the knowledge and planning the average person does for a Disney park. Yes people could put in the research, but many haven't been there in decades and assume it works the same as before.

Also availability does pop up during the day for almost every attraction. right now it's 1:40pm. A quick check of DHS shows the following sold out: SDD, ROTR, and TOT. In literally 1 refresh a 3:10pm TOT popped up. I do wish it had a modify button though.


The most popular rides sold out 60+ days out. The last time I went I was an onsite guest and SDD was sold out 60+1 days out from my trip! FOP was 60+4 days out and I had to settle for a late afternoon slot.

I'm not saying G+ is perfect or even good, but lets not pretend that FP+ was a perfect system. In fact there are a FEW things I like about G+ over FP+ (overall i preferred FP+)

Honestly there was never a time on my previous trips I was not able to get a second FOP FP+ at some point booked DURING my trip. Things always opened up because we were all allowed to make changes and pick our own times.

They went backwards, made things worse for everyone, and now charge for its magical experience.

 

[Purduevian]

Except for Magic Kingdom, new inventory was released throughout the day in all the parks. You could get FoP FastPasses on the actual day of your visit if you happened to check the app after one of these releases. While I won't pretend that FP+ was perfect, the idea that everything worthwhile was snapped up sixty days beforehand simply isn't true.

I didn't say that at all.
G+ has drops just the same as FP+ did but you did/do have to work at it.

I rode FOP twice that day in 2019. This year in February I got a 4:30 Pan LL at 2:45pm. I also got a 8pm JC LL at 6:53pm.

To me the LL availability for the top tier rides is the same at 7:30am as it used to be at 59 days out. You can almost always get what you want if you are willing to work for it.

 

[crazy4disney]

I still think you vastly over-estimate the knowledge and planning the average person does for a Disney park. Yes people could put in the research, but many haven't been there in decades and assume it works the same as before.

Also availability does pop up during the day for almost every attraction. right now it's 1:40pm. A quick check of DHS shows the following sold out: SDD, ROTR, and TOT. In literally 1 refresh a 3:10pm TOT popped up. I do wish it had a modify button though.


The most popular rides sold out 60+ days out. The last time I went I was an onsite guest and SDD was sold out 60+1 days out from my trip! FOP was 60+4 days out and I had to settle for a late afternoon slot.

I'm not saying G+ is perfect or even good, but lets not pretend that FP+ was a perfect system. In fact there are a FEW things I like about G+ over FP+ (overall i preferred FP+)

actually i dont over estimate the knowledge of any Disney guest BUT when it comes to FP and it was literally jammed down your throat by Disney when booking, via email when your window was approaching and email when it opened and when they would send the packet out it literally told you when your dining and FP window opened and when using a TA im sure they either told you or did it for you.... So i have ZERO sympathy or compassion for anyone who was "unaware" or didnt know or made NO attempt to as you say to plan.... lets face it it really wasnt that hard to do and if you are spending that type of money and dont want to i dk take maybe an hour to book FP max again no sympathy.

Genie refresh is useless unless you dont have anything booked bc by the time you cancel and try to get that ride that just popped up its gone and guess what...now you have to book something else and your 2 hour window starts from scratch again so pick your poison hope something pops up by staring into your phone constantly refreshing or take whatever ride is available....

FP+ that was never my experience personally but again im not denying it was with you and others either way you still HAD 3 rides booked ready to go which is still a way better option that we have now.... you gave an example of SDD being sold out 10+1 ... big deal have you used Genie at 7am trying to get a SDD ressie lol

tell me what is perfect? a Plaid tour guide for someone with unlimited funds... FP+ for a resort guest and anyone willing to put a tiny bit of effort was closest thing to perfect there was and we will ever get & it was "free" i use that turn loosely lol

i sit here & actually try and think what Genie is better at than FP and i truly cant think of ANY not one thing i liked better & would say oh i wish FP had this feature...

 

[LittleBuford]

I didn't say that at all.
G+ has drops just the same as FP+ did but you did/do have to work at it.

I rode FOP twice that day in 2019. This year in February I got a 4:30 Pan LL at 2:45pm. I also got a 8pm JC LL at 6:53pm.

To me the LL availability for the top tier rides is the same at 7:30am as it used to be at 59 days out. You can almost always get what you want if you are willing to work for it.

I was responding to your statement that "[t]he most popular rides sold out 60+ days out", which implied that getting onto these rides using FP+ wasn't possible after that point.

My remarks pertain only to FP+, not to the new system, which I haven't use and so can't comment on.

 

[crazy4disney]

I didn't say that at all.
G+ has drops just the same as FP+ did but you did/do have to work at it.

I rode FOP twice that day in 2019. This year in February I got a 4:30 Pan LL at 2:45pm. I also got a 8pm JC LL at 6:53pm.

To me the LL availability for the top tier rides is the same at 7:30am as it used to be at 59 days out. You can almost always get what you want if you are willing to work for it.

when you say drops do you mean Disney is releasing inventory at certain times? if so could you please share what you know i would love to use that info when im there in a few weeks....

in regards to your comment about top tier rides available to play devils advocate and not argue... lets say it is... ill ask you this are the preferred times available? and not to be a wise guy.. you can only book 1 NOT the 3 we were able to w FP so again not sure how saying LL at 730 was same as FP when you can ONLY book 1 ride day of vs 60 days out and actually know what you have and plan something for your day and not guess

 

[Purduevian]

when you say drops do you mean Disney is releasing inventory at certain times? if so could you please share what you know i would love to use that info when im there in a few weeks....

in regards to your comment about top tier rides available to play devils advocate and not argue... lets say it is... ill ask you this are the preferred times available? and not to be a wise guy.. you can only book 1 NOT the 3 we were able to w FP so again not sure how saying LL at 730 was same as FP when you can ONLY book 1 ride day of vs 60 days out and actually know what you have and plan something for your day and not guess

As far as drops, this site calls them ride refills. Parksavers I actually didn't read this before my trip... Just played the refresh game.

I'm probably pretty strange in that my preferred return time is basically always ASAP. So the difference in G+ not allowing you to pick a time never bothered me in the slightest, however i acknowledge that this is a downgrade for a lot of people. I was always going to take the earliest option on FP+.

You are correct in that you can only book 1 vs 3. This is certainly a bad thing for those staying onsite, but probably a good thing for those staying offsite or booking a last minute trip. It makes the system more equitable and "hurts" people that posts on a Disney thread. While helping people that didn't plan, have as much knowledge, or experience the system before. I can see your argument why the planners should continue to get a big advantage, but ultimately I disagree with it.

I highly suggest you watch the defunctland documentary to see why FP+ was such a problem.
If you don't have that much time (I don't blame you). Start at the 1 hour and 15 second mark.

I miss FP+. I got on more rides than is possible with G+. In my MK day in 2019 I skipped 14 lines. In 2022 I only skipped 10 lines. Those extra 4 skips I didn't get to use were used by someone else that would not have used them in 2019 (because I took them). This seems like a more "fair" system to me even if ultimately I loose out.

 

[crazy4disney]

As far as drops, this site calls them ride refills. Parksavers I actually didn't read this before my trip... Just played the refresh game.

I'm probably pretty strange in that my preferred return time is basically always ASAP. So the difference in G+ not allowing you to pick a time never bothered me in the slightest, however i acknowledge that this is a downgrade for a lot of people. I was always going to take the earliest option on FP+.

You are correct in that you can only book 1 vs 3. This is certainly a bad thing for those staying onsite, but probably a good thing for those staying offsite or booking a last minute trip. It makes the system more equitable and "hurts" people that posts on a Disney thread. While helping people that didn't plan, have as much knowledge, or experience the system before. I can see your argument why the planners should continue to get a big advantage, but ultimately I disagree with it.

I highly suggest you watch the defunctland documentary to see why FP+ was such a problem.
If you don't have that much time (I don't blame you). Start at the 1 hour and 15 second mark.

I miss FP+. I got on more rides than is possible with G+. In my MK day in 2019 I skipped 14 lines. In 2022 I only skipped 10 lines. Those extra 4 skips I didn't get to use were used by someone else that would not have used them in 2019 (because I took them). This seems like a more "fair" system to me even if ultimately I loose out.

Ive watched the video when it came out & have stated my feelings on this… but thank you for providing the link.

Also thank you for the Parksavers website will take a look now.