Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[GhostHost1000]

Been through this as well. Resort guests took more than 80-90% of the FP+ inventory at 60 days out. Same day inventory was not good, especially with E-tickets. As for demand? When you pay for something, you expect an immediate and continual return. FP+ was free. Guests didn't frantically refresh to get attractions. They are now because they just spent $15 a person for their entire family on a vacation they probably already overspent on and are getting nothing in return. When you charge someone for access, they are going to make sure they get access. There is a lot of psychology behind this.

Guests paid and they are taking inventory even if they don't like that inventory. They paid for it and are determined to get something (and often as much as possible) in return from park open to close. My family has experienced this. Because of Genie+, we rode attractions we'd normally never ride.

This is the biggest thing Disney didn't forecast: the amount of demand that charging for it would actually create.

Remember: the goal of the daily charge was to reduce demand. It had the opposite effect. It's actually kinda fascinating.

so what you're saying is if they simply charged $15 more for tickets for everyone and kept the old system "free" (so to speak), things would work much better, they'd have less guest relation nightmares (and blue tents all throughout the parks), and they'd probably be making more money too and they didn't think of this?

 

[Jenny72]

I don't agree that it should be our task to figure out how to make Genie+ work better. If Disney decided to whack everyone on the head upon entry, I wouldn't feel that it was our lot to determine the best kind of mallet to use. This was a mistake and they botched it royally.

It's interesting to speculate about how to make this work, but a lot of these solutions would cause new problems and upset a lot more people. The whole idea was problematic from the start and implemented very poorly. I don't know what they'll do now, and it's not at all clear how they'll get themselves out of their self-created quagmire. Their decisions to this point do not bode well for the future.

As for us, we've decided not to go until something changes for the better. And we were ready to drop a whole wad of cash at Disney this year (revenge travel and all...).

 

[GhostHost1000]

Good old fashioned corporate greed.

and every day their shovel is digging themselves a bigger hole... what is amazing to me is either they don't see this, or don't care... both of which are just insane to me

 

[Disney Glimpses]

so what you're saying is if they simply charged $15 more for tickets for everyone and kept the old system "free" (so to speak), things would work much better, they'd have less guest relation nightmares (and blue tents all throughout the parks), and they'd probably be making more money too and they didn't think of this?

It's not that simple, you're viewing this through the lens of a resort guest. But yes, in theory, if people could simply reserve a ride at a time for free upon entering the park - while the headliners would go quite quickly - the others would be pretty easy to get throughout the day.

 

[Chi84]

If tomorrow Genie+ limited inventory to 20,000, for example, GSAT would sky rocket.

FP+ being better doesn't make Genie+ bad. Just like HEA being better doesn't make DE bad. DE is good and the complaints arise when compared to HEA. Same exact concept here.

But if it was capped tomorrow, what about all the guests who wouldn't be able to buy it at all? We just came back from a WDW vacation with our multi-generational family and we would have gotten on very few rides (and none of the more popular ones) if we had not been able to skip the lines with Genie+ and ILLs. As bad as it was (and it was awful) we bought Genie+ in self-defense so we could at least get on some of the rides we liked. Not being able to skip lines would have pretty much ruined our WDW vacation, and that's saying a lot. Not being able to purchase something you are willing and able to pay for can't be good for guest satisfaction, can it?

 

[GhostHost1000]

some ideas I've thought of.... .but I'm not expert on this:

Prior to vacation:
Park reservations (at time of ticket purchase)
Dining reservations (60 days out)
Attraction reservations / LLs (30 days out for resort guest, 15 days out for off property guests)

Ideas for changes/enhancements to Genie+/LL:
Eliminate ILLs and include in Genie+/LL purchase (virtual queue the most popular attraction in each park)
Increase price to $30pp(?) – could vary price based on that park’s attractions (ex. # to select from)
Resort guests can book 3 per day (30 days in advance)
Off property guests can book 3 per day (15 days in advance)
Allow guests to select times for each attraction (makes it way easier to plan your day like before)
Allow guests to modify selections at any time (flexibility due to weather, dining reservations, delays, etc.)
Once any LL is used (or after all 3?), another can be booked that day (including any after 2pm in another park if your ticket has park hoping capability)
Hold “some” availability of LLs until the day of for AP holders?
Allow better pre-planning and less stress the day of
Eliminate the morning of scramble to book multiple things LL, ILL, and/or virtual queue at 7am


Another possibility would be let guests select their park, estimated hours they plan to be in that park, any dining reservations and preferred lunch or break times, 3 attractions they want to do the most (in advance), and let Genie+ plan their day choosing those LL times to spread people out, create a more efficient timeline to those attractions, etc.


In addition to this, go back to the standard 9am park opening times. Having a 30min early entry for resort guests is ok but last week we were on a bus at 6am for Animal Kingdom and another day on a bus at 7am when people were standing up holding on with on hand and on their phones in another booking LLs. Makes me wonder how many may be driving to the parks on their phones as well booking LLs at 7am which could be dangerous.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

But if it was capped tomorrow, what about all the guests who wouldn't be able to buy it at all? We just came back from a WDW vacation with our multi-generational family and we would have gotten on very few rides (and none of the more popular ones) if we had not been able to skip the lines with Genie+ and ILLs. As bad as it was (and it was awful) we bought Genie+ in self-defense so we could at least get on some of the rides we liked. Not being able to skip lines would have pretty much ruined our WDW vacation, and that's saying a lot. Not being able to purchase something you are willing and able to pay for can't be good for guest satisfaction, can it?

No it's not but FP+ wasn't immune to this issue (for non-resort guests). GSAT for Genie+ would go up but that negative sentiment would be shifted to overall standby wait times - in which Disney would have a convenient response: "purchase Genie+"

In reality though, there's a reason few complain about ILL. It's because you pay and get something directly in return. And what you get in return is exactly what you wanted.

 

[Chi84]

No it's not but FP+ wasn't immune to this issue (for non-resort guests). GSAT for Genie+ would go up but that negative sentiment would be shifted to overall standby wait times - in which Disney would have a convenient response: "purchase Genie+"

In reality though, there's a reason few complain about ILL. It's because you pay and get something directly in return. And what you get in return is exactly what you wanted.

It wasn’t immune but at least there was some possibility of getting FP+ during the day even absent advance reservations. If you cap Genie+ you’re locking people out completely. And how can Disney tell people to buy Genie+ if it’s capped and not available? I think the capping part would be very tricky.

 

[Jeff4272]

The 7am aspect would also be more tolerable except:
WDW breakfast starts at 7am
AK opens to onsite guests at 7 or 7:30am and HS and Epcot open to onsite guests at 8am.
Getting to the parks from most hotels via WDW transportation takes at least 30minutes. Even the closest walking CR to MK takes 10-15min.

So between 7am and 7:30am/8am WDW expects us to: buy G+, book G+, book ILL, wait in line for breakfast, eat, wait for a bus, ride bus to park, walk bus stop to gate/past security/tapstyle to an attraction.

On top of all the problems you describe.

Another aspect is that nobody answers if you try to call or use the texting service at that hour.

I think this is the second worst thing about Genie+ only to not having enough inventory

 

[crazy4disney]

Not sure why you are angry.
Every week thousands of people split their week-long vacation between WDW and Orlando's other theme parks. It is not at all uncommon.


I provided exact pricing on how to get the extra magic hours for a very reasonable price, but even if I spend 7 nights, mid-August:
Swan $2227
AKL = $3338
SSR = 3133
AoA LM room = 1664
CB Preferred = 2384
CB st view = 2008

Upgrading from AoA to the Swan = $563.
Upgrading to SSR = $1469
but the post I responded to was about upgrading from a mod to a deluxe: CBR deluxe room to the Swan actually = $157 LESS.

Those are just the facts.

Im not angry at all. Im stating facts as well. You are using a couple of examples which yes are options 100% & i do agree at around $100 pp its a fair upgrade but to quote your SSR example of $1500 for 4 hours to me is absurd to pay. Just my opinion & you havent even touched on the more expensive resorts All starting at roughly 550 per night Contemporary cheapest monorail is 4300 for 7 nights now how much more are we talking about? As i said. Yes you have provided a couple examples but the majority of comparisons are in fact in the couple thousand $ range for a week long trip. So if someone decided to say stay at the Contemporary for all that extra money for 4 hours extra at night to me is absurd but again God bless im not here to judge. Just stating my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Jeff4272]

I don't agree that it should be our task to figure out how to make Genie+ work better. If Disney decided to whack everyone on the head upon entry, I wouldn't feel that it was our lot to determine the best kind of mallet to use. This was a mistake and they botched it royally.

It's interesting to speculate about how to make this work, but a lot of these solutions would cause new problems and upset a lot more people. The whole idea was problematic from the start and implemented very poorly. I don't know what they'll do now, and it's not at all clear how they'll get themselves out of their self-created quagmire. Their decisions to this point do not bode well for the future.

As for us, we've decided not to go until something changes for the better. And we were ready to drop a whole wad of cash at Disney this year (revenge travel and all...).

100% same for us

 

[mikejs78]

It wasn’t immune but at least there was some possibility of getting FP+ during the day even absent advance reservations. If you cap Genie+ you’re locking people out completely. And how can Disney tell people to buy Genie+ if it’s capped and not available? I think the capping part would be very tricky.

That's why I think they should try to not have an artificial cap. Make it only available as a multiday ticket addon and double the price. Then you avoid those people spending for just MK/DHS - you have to buy it for your length of trip.

 

[Jeff4272]

some ideas I've thought of.... .but I'm not expert on this:

Prior to vacation:
Park reservations (at time of ticket purchase)
Dining reservations (60 days out)
Attraction reservations / LLs (30 days out for resort guest, 15 days out for off property guests)

Ideas for changes/enhancements to Genie+/LL:
Eliminate ILLs and include in Genie+/LL purchase (virtual queue the most popular attraction in each park)
Increase price to $30pp(?) – could vary price based on that park’s attractions (ex. # to select from)
Resort guests can book 3 per day (30 days in advance)
Off property guests can book 3 per day (15 days in advance)
Allow guests to select times for each attraction (makes it way easier to plan your day like before)
Allow guests to modify selections at any time (flexibility due to weather, dining reservations, delays, etc.)
Once any LL is used (or after all 3?), another can be booked that day (including any after 2pm in another park if your ticket has park hoping capability)
Hold “some” availability of LLs until the day of for AP holders?
Allow better pre-planning and less stress the day of
Eliminate the morning of scramble to book multiple things LL, ILL, and/or virtual queue at 7am


Another possibility would be let guests select their park, estimated hours they plan to be in that park, any dining reservations and preferred lunch or break times, 3 attractions they want to do the most (in advance), and let Genie+ plan their day choosing those LL times to spread people out, create a more efficient timeline to those attractions, etc.


In addition to this, go back to the standard 9am park opening times. Having a 30min early entry for resort guests is ok but last week we were on a bus at 6am for Animal Kingdom and another day on a bus at 7am when people were standing up holding on with on hand and on their phones in another booking LLs. Makes me wonder how many may be driving to the parks on their phones as well booking LLs at 7am which could be dangerous.

I can write your same post in three words

Bring back FP+

Thats exactly what you described

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

View attachment 645583
Interesting. SSR is the easiest DVC resort to find availability a few months out. Next is OKW/AKL because they're huge as well. I can see why WDW is trying to fill rooms early in the week with EEH.

Points can be rented $20 each, so $600 for 2 nights gets access to both EEHs.
Still open full month of August.
View attachment 645584

For DVC people using Early Entry and night EMHs, they don't have to rely on ILL's much at all. $15 on Genie+ is an easy choice for them.

It is also a little curious because WDW hotel pricing runs higher on the weekend, but S/D/SR pricing now tends to run higher the first half of the week.

Surely that is because they have higher occupancy at the start of the week. Could be more convention events, or it could be people wanting the extra park hours, or something else?

Crazy is Dolphin is just $246w/tax+fees in early August. (The AAA rate is $5 lower). While AoA LM is $275 w/tax.

Early August looks to have wide availability on WDW property. Perhaps Disney isn't going to be as busy as expected.

 

[crazy4disney]

so what you're saying is if they simply charged $15 more for tickets for everyone and kept the old system "free" (so to speak), things would work much better, they'd have less guest relation nightmares (and blue tents all throughout the parks), and they'd probably be making more money too and they didn't think of this?

Exactly my point. They could have just increased other prices and allocate it to a “paid” version on some accounting line & noone would have said boo as ive said earlier. Complete disaster. Every step of the way.

 

[crazy4disney]

It is also a little curious because WDW hotel pricing runs higher on the weekend, but S/D/SR pricing now tends to run higher the first half of the week.

Surely that is because they have higher occupancy at the start of the week. Could be more convention events, or it could be people wanting the extra park hours, or something else?

Crazy is Dolphin is just $246w/tax+fees in early August. (The AAA rate is $5 lower). While AoA LM is $275 w/tax.

Early August looks to have wide availability on WDW property. Perhaps Disney isn't going to be as busy as expected.

In theory then i can book a room at the cheapest deluxe for a night & stay after hours with my regular trip? Is this a “hack” we just discovered? Serious question. Book a room only at Swan or Dolphin or rent points for a night & stay in park? Or they will just say that your 10 day ticket is attached to your current hotel and you have to leave?

 

[Jrb1979]

so what you're saying is if they simply charged $15 more for tickets for everyone and kept the old system "free" (so to speak), things would work much better, they'd have less guest relation nightmares (and blue tents all throughout the parks), and they'd probably be making more money too and they didn't think of this?

Not really. For those who are resort guests it would be great. You get your stress free spreadsheet planned days back. For you and a few others FP+ was great but for the rest of us not so much. Last time I visited MK, being a day guest, the rides left were ones with short waits or lots of meet and greets.

Where the disconnect is, those that stayed on property never felt the lack of availability that everyone feels now. What's happening now is what a lot of off site guests and day guests always felt. There has always been limited availability just resort guests never felt it.

Genie+ has a lot of issues but there is ways to make it work without going back to pre-booking.

 

[mikejs78]

Where the disconnect is, those that stayed on property never felt the lack of availability that everyone feels now. What's happening now is what a lot of off site guests and day guests always felt. There has always been limited availability just resort guests never felt it.

I usually stayed onsite for FP+, but even when I didn't I was able to get FP+s for almost all attractions I wanted.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Ive never stayed off property but people here have and stated they were able to get top tier FP at times. I know AP holders were as well. But its not like there was nothing available & again. If that is the case. Disney is saying we value nonresort guests more than resort guests?!? Can they be that dumb?

We have stayed off property quite often and could get decent FPs but the top tier ones (like Mine Train, etc) were basically impossible (we usually have a larger group (9+ people) so that didn't help

But I could usually get sort of the next tier or sometimes one of the top tiers, just later in the day

For offsite guests G+ is definitely better or, at least, doesn't have that negative compared to onsite guests, it is a level playing field.

I don't think Disney values off site guests more than onsite, they have just determined the perks (DME, FP+ 60 days vs 30, etc) are not driving factors for people willing to pay to stay on site .... So far, post pandemic, the room availability (or lack thereof) would price them right - question is, how long does that last?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

So people aren't complaining about the 7AM wakeup every day of their vacation? Because to me that's just the worst.

People definitely complaining about that to - but I think that is a big complaints for people who have managed to make the system work for them. Others have more basic challengew in just not getting much for what they are spending (possibly b/c they aren't trying right at 7, aren't setting alarms for when they can next book, aren't constantly refreshing, etc)