Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Jeff4272]

I still think they won't do that because it will cannibalize VIP sales.

There's ways to limit it.......They could price it so VIP sales wouldn't be cannibalized......

VIP tours average is $650 per hour, 7 hour minimum, for up to 10 people, for an average of about $450pp.........they come with planning, transportation, tour guide, multiple ride capability

If you offered an "Express Pass", eligible only at 1 park per day for only 1 ride per attraction for $149pp-$199pp, then it's significant;y more than Genie+ but limited enough options to not deter VIP tours

 

[Thepuma]

Then change it to once you enter the park like MaxPass.

I wouldn't be surprised that doesn't change. Part of the point of FP+ and now Genie+ is to control crowds. IMO Disney didn't expect so many people to want to modify their return as much as they do. It's Disney's fault really. They trained everyone to plan out their vacation down to the last minute. Of course people are going to want the optimal time for their schedule.

I mean...its not like they have any data on people changing their fast pass times....oh wait they do, they had a number of years of people doing it with FP+ so they know exactly, on average, how often its needed.

It's just poor excuses given for Disneys terrible product.

Basically, whoever designed and rolled out Genie should be fired....lets be honest, in ANY other business if you designed and rolled out something that had the horrific feedback that G+ has, you'd expect to be fired pretty quickly.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I can assure you that an unlimited offering like Express Pass is not on the table. Though, I wish it were.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

As I said above, it's a two fold benefit and a knock on effect....see my above post.

Yes you are waiting outside for 30 to 40 minutes, but you

1) Get on FOP in 10 minutes rather than 120.
2) Then walk on Navi River, rather than 30 minutes
3) Then Safari 10 mins rather than 60 mins
4) Then Everest 2 or 3 walk ons( or maybe 5/10 mins) rather than 30/40minute wait each time
5) Dinosaur walk on rather than 30 minutes

The time saved isn't just FOP....it has a knock on effect to the rest of your morning at AK.

Touring in 2019-2021 was very different than 2022 is, but my general rule was not to wait more than 20minutes for any attraction unless it was very new.

I've walked-on all the above many times over.

Actually, I've walked-on every WDW attraction except Guardians, even Rise. Though Rat was with a ILL pass.

We usually do EE 3-5 times in row too w/minimal waiting. And I've done that Easter week! In Jan, HA! The parks are empty, especially in the AM because it is so COLD.

(For thsoe who only visit in summer: In Jan, we have often had to scrape frost off the windshield of our car in the AM in Jan. The pools are also hoot, because there's what looks like steam billowing up into the cold air. From our hotel room, it almost looks like a fluffy Toy Story cloud is directly over the pool.)

So like I said earlier, there are trade-offs to RD.

 

[Jeff4272]

I can assure you that an unlimited offering like Express Pass is not on the table. Though, I wish it were.

Well that stinks........Hopefully they are able to find a suitable alternative

 

[mmascari]

And inability to modify.

This one feels more and more like it is guest hostile and designed for Disney not designed for the user.

Having a modify that lets someone pick from the list of available right now options, confirm that new option, and then release their current choice seems like a no brainer. Having to commit to ditching the current one first is simply ridiculous.

I don't expect them to fix it though. The Park Pass has been around longer and you cannot modify it either. You could be an onsite guest with a multiple day ticket, wake up on day 1 and based on the weather forecast want to switch the Park Pass for day 4. But, you have to cancel the current pass on day 4 first. If the parks are busy not only is it possible the one you want to switch to that's available before you start could be gone by the time you try, but the one you leave may also disappear before you are able to book a new choice leaving you with no parks on day 4, just a ticket that must be used and an onsite room with no parks available. That this is the designed use case instead of a modify that secures the new choice before releasing the current choice is clearly not designed for the user but for the tracker instead.

 

[crazy4disney]

As I said above, it's a two fold benefit and a knock on effect....see my above post.

Yes you are waiting outside for 30 to 40 minutes, but you

1) Get on FOP in 10 minutes rather than 120.
2) Then walk on Navi River, rather than 30 minutes
3) Then Safari 10 mins rather than 60 mins
4) Then Everest 2 or 3 walk ons( or maybe 5/10 mins) rather than 30/40minute wait each time
5) Dinosaur walk on rather than 30 minutes

The time saved isn't just FOP....it has a knock on effect to the rest of your morning at AK.

 

[Thepuma]

Touring in 2019-2021 was very different than 2022 is, but my general rule was not to wait more than 20minutes for any attraction unless it was very new.

I've walked-on all the above many times over.

Actually, I've walked-on every WDW attraction except Guardians, even Rise. Though Rat was with a ILL pass.

We usually do EE 3-5 times in row too w/minimal waiting. And I've done that Easter week! In Jan, HA! The parks are empty, especially in the AM because it is so COLD.

(For thsoe who only visit in summer: In Jan, we have often had to scrape frost off the windshield of our car in the AM in Jan. The pools are also hoot, because there's what looks like steam billowing up into the cold air. From our hotel room, it almost looks like a fluffy Toy Story cloud is directly over the pool.)

So like I said earlier, there are trade-offs to RD.

A little bit, not much tho.

We visited Orlando 3 times in 2018, 3 times in 2019,...once in 2020..twice in 2021 and once 2022.

Not a great deal has changed for us..other than Genie+, which did make things harder, but we used pretty much the same strategies as before with similar results.

If you stay on property then rope dropping is the same as its always been, even better to be honest as you aren't dictated to as to which park you can get in early.

Oh..id be interested to hear how you walk on FOP without a ILL or rope dropping...

 

[crazy4disney]

FP+ basically did the same thing for you as well if you were a resort resort guest. Also eating at Tusker House prior to park opening and walking to KS ensured basically a walk on there as well and saved you a FP you needed to book prior.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

There's ways to limit it.......They could price it so VIP sales wouldn't be cannibalized......

VIP tours average is $650 per hour, 7 hour minimum, for up to 10 people, for an average of about $450pp.........they come with planning, transportation, tour guide, multiple ride capability

If you offered an "Express Pass", eligible only at 1 park per day for only 1 ride per attraction for $149pp-$199pp, then it's significant;y more than Genie+ but limited enough options to not deter VIP tours

But the big draw to the VIP tour is the ability to get on the rides with little to no wait. You make that major draw available for a lot less and people will skip getting the tour guide, transportation (which is complimentary in some form), and the planning.

Most people that I've dealt with that inquire about the VIP tour starts out like this, "I heard that there's some VIP thing that gets you to skip all of the lines...how much is it?"
The other stuff you mention is very secondary to the majority of those that purchase the VIP tour for their group. (Not to mention, some people may not like having the tour guide and just want the "line skipping" feature).

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

IMO Disney didn't expect so many people to want to modify their return as much as they do. It's Disney's fault really. They trained everyone to plan out their vacation down to the last minute. Of course people are going to want the optimal time for their schedule.

Except WDW did know based on 2019 FP+, that parkgoers expected to be able to modify passes.

WDW also knew that G+ changed times (between seeing and buying) before they released it. I think they did that somewhat intentionally.

If you look at G+ before your visit, it looks like it will be easy to get a wide choice of G+ passes.

I would also say the last part a little differently. I don't want my vacation timing set in stone. If I am buying a G+ pass, I simply want to be able to use it without having to go through some convoluted process. I don't want to be issued some random return time that conflicts with my dinner and no easy way to fix the problem.

I only book ADR's because we couldn't eat at almost any TS without them. But it is insulting to charge both a no-show fee and stick us with a G+ pass that conflicts w/our pre-booked dinner.

Their scheduling systems are dysfunctional. If we're going to have to schedule our visit, it should be stress-free and all done at the same time. Meals and rides should be scheduled at time of booking.

 

[Jrb1979]

This one feels more and more like it is guest hostile and designed for Disney not designed for the user.

Having a modify that lets someone pick from the list of available right now options, confirm that new option, and then release their current choice seems like a no brainer. Having to commit to ditching the current one first is simply ridiculous.

I don't expect them to fix it though. The Park Pass has been around longer and you cannot modify it either. You could be an onsite guest with a multiple day ticket, wake up on day 1 and based on the weather forecast want to switch the Park Pass for day 4. But, you have to cancel the current pass on day 4 first. If the parks are busy not only is it possible the one you want to switch to that's available before you start could be gone by the time you try, but the one you leave may also disappear before you are able to book a new choice leaving you with no parks on day 4, just a ticket that must be used and an onsite room with no parks available. That this is the designed use case instead of a modify that secures the new choice before releasing the current choice is clearly not designed for the user but for the tracker instead.

This is exactly it. Watching the Defunctland video on FP was fascinating and goes into depth on why it was created. My biggest issue with FP+ and Genie+ is what it's programmed to do. Unlike every other park where it's primary use is not just to make extra income it also to let people have shorter waits. At Disney the main purpose is to control crowds and direct them where they want them.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

A little bit, not much tho.

We visited Orlando 3 times in 2018, 3 times in 2019,...once in 2020..twice in 2021 and once 2022.

Not a great deal has changed for us..other than Genie+, which did make things harder, but we used pretty much the same strategies as before with similar results.

If you stay on property then rope dropping is the same as its always been, even better to be honest as you aren't dictated to as to which park you can get in early.

Oh..id be interested to hear how you walk on FOP without a ILL or rope dropping...

I'm not sure you're reading my posts? I have many RD's under my belt.

For FoP, we used FP and the PM peripheral park hours.

What's kinda funny is that my family mastered the rope dropping strategy back in the 1970's. Like, we were among the very first park-goers to use a touring strategy at all!

 

[Thepuma]

I'm not sure you're reading my posts? I have many RD's under my belt.

For FoP, we used FP and the PM peripheral park hours.

What's kinda funny is that my family mastered the rope dropping strategy back in the 1970's. Like, we were among the very first park-goers to use a touring strategy at all!

Ah, its OK...its just you said other than Rise and Guardians that you'd walked onto every Disney ride without the need for Rope Drop or Fast Pass..

"I've walked-on all the above many times over.
Actually, I've walked-on every WDW attraction except Guardians, even Rise. Though Rat was with a ILL pass"

I was just asking how you managed that with FOP...to which you've replied you used a Fastpass?..which appears contradictory.

Oh..and Rope Dropping is just a made up saying which everyone else just used to say...."Get to the park half hour before it's open to get straight on the best ride".....so that or 'Rope dropping' has been a thing from the very first theme park was ever opened...its nothing clever, it's common sense. I only call it rope dropping when I go to America...everywhere else i just call it getting to the park early.

 

[trainplane3]

I think most people are still overlooking what's still closed on property. They've come a long way, but there is still a fair amount to come back. Those things help alleviate the queues. And when you consider that there is no popular show at DAK or DHS right now and DE isn't a must see, the queues at night aren't alleviated much.

I know there's a bunch of stuff still closed or modified but I have one thing that's affected my trips.

Citizens of Hollywood.

Please.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

I get it from that point of view. At the same time I don't believe in using the parks to fill resorts. I'm starting to understand why they aren't big on AP holders. If they could they would make Disney a gates community and only let those staying on property in. That to me is wrong on so many levels. Like I said before at one time Disney was everyone.

They will build another 7 DVC resorts or add-ons/ room conversions by 2042 to get closer to the"gated community". This would be the dream for them. Every guest a dvc member that is guaranteed to show up!

 

[Naplesgolfer]

Remove it. Copy Universal's Express Pass and charge $200+ a per person, per day. One ride per day.

Sell enough to make money, but not too much where the system can't handle the capacity for it. Reduce wait times overall.

I've been visiting the parks lately the last few hours of operations and I can't understand how people willingly buy individual lightning lanes.

I waited 15 minutes for Rise by entering the line 1 minute prior to close.
Waited 35 minutes for FOP by entering 1 minute prior to close.

"Rope Lift/Up" is the new Rope Drop

Disney is a family resort. Wait till you have little children of your own. The lightbulb with come on.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

I have to wonder if the people making the choices have ever actually tried to use their own product.

THIS!!!! this explains many, many of the problems in Disney parks and hotels.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

Can the money lost from cannibalizing VIP Tours not handily be made up by the Fastpass offering? If they're making an extra million a day on Genie+ and could turn it into two million without lifting much of a finger, I wonder why they'd avoid that to protect Private Tours.

Do VIP Tours generate that much money for the company? Or is there some other X Factor there?

They host upwards of 120 tours a day at 3500-8000 a day. Also these guests are highest tier spenders on hotel suites, top dining, expensive wine and merchandise etc etc. They want to protect this business. These are 45k for 5 nights type guests.

 

[TheGuyThatMakesSwords]

Just what WE will do... others should do as they wish. AP, DVC... for us? Standby only, not touching this mess.