Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Jrb1979]

Maybe @disneyglimpses can answer this. I have always wondered why Disney makes things more complicated then they need to be.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I'm reading a lot of posts that say, "Genie+ forces me to wake up early" and then also posts that say, "FP+ was great because I always got the rides I wanted...except for the ones I couldn't get but I would just wake up early and rope drop them." Often by the same people.

And also posts that say, "Genie+ forces me to be on my phone all day" and then also posts that say, "I could always get so much done with FP+ because I could refresh the app a lot and continue to get more fastpasses throughout the day" or "once you knew what you were doing, you could use tricks to get the most out of FP+."

To your first point, there's a difference between getting up to rope-drop 1 ride while knowing ahead of time that you have the other rides you wanted vs. having to get up early every day just to select your first ride to even have a chance at getting 1 of the rides you want at a time that is assigned rather than selected (at least in the case of G+ selections since ILL selections offer the ability to choose a time - although even then the time sometimes changes on people in the moment that passes between when they click their chosen time and getting the confirmation screen). Personally, I never rope-dropped. I preferred to sleep in and never had much difficulty getting the rides we wanted unless our trip was very short. With FP+, you could build your day around your dining reservations and have a sensible path around the park. With G+, you get what it gives you and if that's not convenient for you then too bad. You can try again and hope that there's another return time available that works better, but you have no control over it. Available G+ times can lead you to have to walk back and forth across the park multiple times, where FP+ let you schedule your choices so you could start off in Tomorrowland, head to Fantasyland, and then head over to Frontierland or Adventureland on a MK day, for example. If you know that you hate to ride coasters right after a meal then you could book your 7DMT or Big Thunder time for mid-to-late afternoon so you had a buffer between lunch and dinner. Or maybe you like riding Big Thunder at night, so you could book it for later in the evening. Plan to park hop? You could book all your FP+ selections for earlier in the day and then hop to your next park. Now? If you wait too long to book Big Thunder so you get it at night you might miss out completely and if you book too early you might get a time that's earlier than you wanted. And if you're planning to park hop you might get a return time for a ride in your first park that's later at night. They removed the flexibility and control that FP+ provided and are charging for a lesser product.

 

[mikejs78]

But in either case people have to stop complaining that genie plus doesn’t do what FP did.

No, we don't have to stop complaining. It's all right to complain about what we think is an inferior system. And in fact, it looks like Disney is going to be making some changes, probably as a result of people complaining.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Maybe @disneyglimpses can answer this. I have always wondered why Disney makes things more complicated then they need to be.

For one, they are textbook over thinkers and planners when it comes to logistics. But mainly, it is because they are juggling 3 classes of people (resort guests, off site day ticket guests, local APs) and create rules to navigate that dynamic in ways that they feel would efficiently distribute supply/demand. And in light of that, they are increasingly willing to place the burden of their logistics onto the guest (Park Pass, Genie+ rules) rather than absorb it internally. This is the biggest mistake.

 

[crazy4disney]

You could call being able to book FP early a perk of staying on property. in fact since it wasn’t a direct charge I would absolutely call it a perk. But Disney doesn’t think it needs those perks to drive on site property bookings now and/or wants to turn the system not into a perk, but into a revenue generating stream. As such 1) it’s not going to be free and 2) they want to market it to as broad a client base as possible to generate more sales. Which means each consumer gets the same thing for the same cost.

Now Disney could have just limited sales to on site guests to give them a paid for benifit but they apparently didn’t think the revenue stream would have been big enough.

OR they purposefully open the market to everyone to take advantage of the wider consumer pool. Then after a certain period of time you have a built in transition to make some changes to “give back” to on site property stayers if you see demand starting to soften. Maybe genie+ will become part of your booking when you get a room and ticket package, and they can then do PR that they are adding value to on site property stayers…after Genie plus has been established.

But in either case people have to stop complaining that genie plus doesn’t do what FP did. It wasn’t designed to do the same thing and it’s purpose isn’t the same. So it would be broken if it had the same results as FP.

i have stated already Disney could have easily charged for FP+ and gotten away with it and also stated i would gladly pay for the old system to be back even at a higher price point but the point is Genie+ is awful and an inferior product at a cost which as insiders have stated tweaks are being made.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

i have stated already Disney could have easily charged for FP+ and gotten away with it and also stated i would gladly pay for the old system to be back even at a higher price point but the point is Genie+ is awful and an inferior product at a cost which as insiders have stated tweaks are being made.

The reason that Genie+ is the hot pile of garbage that it is (along with the departure from the name FastPass) is explicitly because the old product used to be free. They worked very hard to make a product that both looked and sounded new before charging for it and were clearly willing to compromise experience to do so. Charging for the old free offering was a non-starter. Why, I have no idea as they've done it in the past (EMH to After Hours, free parking to paid parking). But they were obsessive over this.

 

[Jrb1979]

For one, they are textbook over thinkers and planners when it comes to logistics. But mainly, it is because they are juggling 3 classes of people (resort guests, off site day ticket guests, local APs) and create rules to navigate that dynamic in ways that they feel would efficiently distribute supply/demand. And in light of that, they are increasingly willing to place the burden of their logistics onto the guest (Park Pass, Genie+ rules) rather than absorb it internally. This is the biggest mistake.

I know they are bigger then every other park in the world. But sometimes I think it would be a good idea to visit other parks to see how some their in park system works.

As far as Genie+ goes, my thoughts are that Disney was hoping people would go with what attractions they were given. The downfall was many try to use it like FP+.

One tweak that would help is up the ratio of LL to Standby and add more people into LL. From things I have heard right now LL is a minimal wait.

 

[crazy4disney]

The reason that Genie+ is the hot pile of garbage that it is (along with the departure from the name FastPass) is explicitly because the old product used to be free. They worked very hard to make a product that both looked and sounded new before charging for it and were clearly willing to compromise experience to do so. Charging for the old free offering was a non-starter. Why, I have no idea as they've done it in the past (EMH to After Hours, free parking to paid parking). But they were obsessive over this.

Bingo and ive stated this as well... all of a sudden they were worried about a PR backlash?!?! Dont forget eliminating Disney's ME lol..... they could have easily sold this for resort guests at X price and X days in advance and then Y price Y days 2 rides only maybe for optics.

 

[pdude81]

i have stated already Disney could have easily charged for FP+ and gotten away with it and also stated i would gladly pay for the old system to be back even at a higher price point but the point is Genie+ is awful and an inferior product at a cost which as insiders have stated tweaks are being made.

They used this also as cover to have you ordering and paying for meals in your phone and self check out in addition to the ride upcharges. It's a big reset into paying for convenience with your handheld device, since they have to pay developers to keep the apps updated over time. I think this product is more ambitious and dare I say successful than FP+, even though it's a huge pain in the . If they eventually figure out how to make it suck less, they'll get the pixie dust pass from fans and all will be forgiven. Don't forget that they gave us roughly the product we all asked for in these forums after complaining about the setup in Paris. Hopefully they've learned to stop listening to fans and design a better user experience rather than heed the newer calls for price gouging or time travel to resolve issues.

 

[crazy4disney]

They used this also as cover to have you ordering and paying for meals in your phone and self check out in addition to the ride upcharges. It's a big reset into paying for convenience with your handheld device, since they have to pay developers to keep the apps updated over time. I think this product is more ambitious and dare I say successful than FP+, even though it's a huge pain in the ***. If they eventually figure out how to make it suck less, they'll get the pixie dust pass from fans and all will be forgiven. Don't forget that they gave us roughly the product we all asked for in these forums after complaining about the setup in Paris. Hopefully they've learned to stop listening to fans and design a better user experience rather than heed the newer calls for price gouging or time travel to resolve issues.

but how do you develop a better product w/o having the ability to pre book the 3 rides like we have grown use to & only because this company has forced us to book everything prior to arriving (dare i say dining)

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I know they are bigger then every other park in the world. But sometimes I think it would be a good idea to visit other parks to see how some their in park system works.

As far as Genie+ goes, my thoughts are that Disney was hoping people would go with what attractions they were given. The downfall was many try to use it like FP+.

One tweak that would help is up the ratio of LL to Standby and add more people into LL. From things I have heard right now LL is a minimal wait.

They do do this. And for what it's worth, their goal is to truly make an experience that is unlike every other theme park, and in a good way. All of these blunders are completely unintentional. They are just as disappointed as you all are. In fact, more disappointed. The leadership in Burbank are very different from the people in the back offices on property at WDW and in Celebration. They really do care about bringing guests that magic they are longing for. Same goes for Imagineering. They are all handcuffed by Burbank.

And to circle back to Genie+, the program looked very different in pitch form than it does now in practice. Executives butcher every single project and offering.

 

[mikejs78]

And to circle back to Genie+, the program looked very different in pitch form than it does now in practice. Executives butcher every single project and offering.

Wish I could have been a fly on the wall for the pitch...

 

[Jrb1979]

They do do this. And for what it's worth, their goal is to truly make an experience that is unlike every other theme park, and in a good way. All of these blunders are completely unintentional. They are just as disappointed as you all are. In fact, more disappointed. The leadership in Burbank are very different from the people in the back offices on property at WDW and in Celebration. They really do care about bringing guests that magic they are longing for. Same goes for Imagineering. They are all handcuffed by Burbank.

And to circle back to Genie+, the program looked very different in pitch form than it does now in practice. Executives butcher every single project and offering.

In theory they were hoping people would pick the next available ride regardless what it was.

For example you get to MK and the earliest LL is Tiki Room so you book that. After Tiki Room Monsters Laugh floor is the next best available so you take it. IMO thats how Disney pictured Genie+ working.

What ended up happening is guests are trying to use it like FP+ with stacking and trying to get the best rides.

I understand they want to be different but for some things it's not possible. Skip the line systems being one of them. There is a reason its limited at every other park. There is no park in the world that has enough capacity for everyone to have the skip the line pass.

 

[mikejs78]

In theory they were hoping people would pick the next available ride regardless what it was.

For example you get to MK and the earliest LL is Tiki Room so you book that. After Tiki Room Monsters Laugh floor is the next best available so you take it. IMO thats how Disney pictured Genie+ working.

If they thought that, they were smoking something. They knew that wasn't going to be how it worked. It's not how FP+ worked, it's not how FP worked, it's not how MaxPass worked.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

They just didn't expect as many people to purchase it. But now they've gotten a taste of $1mm per day and they aren't going to let go of it easily.

 

[crazy4disney]

They do do this. And for what it's worth, their goal is to truly make an experience that is unlike every other theme park, and in a good way. All of these blunders are completely unintentional. They are just as disappointed as you all are. In fact, more disappointed. The leadership in Burbank are very different from the people in the back offices on property at WDW and in Celebration. They really do care about bringing guests that magic they are longing for. Same goes for Imagineering. They are all handcuffed by Burbank.

And to circle back to Genie+, the program looked very different in pitch form than it does now in practice. Executives butcher every single project and offering.

if true which i dont doubt than there needs to be heads rolling... people need to be held accountable for their actions along with this being fixed asap.... bring back FP+ and just charge for it. we beg of you Disney

 

[pdude81]

In theory they were hoping people would pick the next available ride regardless what it was.

For example you get to MK and the earliest LL is Tiki Room so you book that. After Tiki Room Monsters Laugh floor is the next best available so you take it. IMO thats how Disney pictured Genie+ working.

What ended up happening is guests are trying to use it like FP+ with stacking and trying to get the best rides.

I understand they want to be different but for some things it's not possible. Skip the line systems being one of them. There is a reason its limited at every other park. There is no park in the world that has enough capacity for everyone to have the skip the line pass.

It is limited though in the number of passes they give out (currently). People will do whatever they think works best for them, but we're still talking about getting 2-4 skips for most people and it only costs 15 bucks each. Because they limit the number of LL relative to FP+ time, the lines still move a bit faster.

 

[crazy4disney]

They just didn't expect as many people to purchase it. But now they've gotten a taste of $1mm per day and they aren't going to let go of it easily.

how could they honestly with any sort of intelligence believe people were not going to pay for this when its actually something that even in its current horrendous form still has a few positives where you dont have to wait on line for however amount of rides you end up getting during your park day.

 

[mikejs78]

if true which i dont doubt than there needs to be heads rolling... people need to be held accountable for their actions along with this being fixed asap.... bring back FP+ and just charge for it. we beg of you Disney

As someone who leads an engineering organization, I object to this. Sometimes ideas sound great on paper and people do their best to implement it, and it turns out to not go as planned. I don't think people's jobs should be on the line, or heads should roll - as long as people acknowledge that it was a disaster and they can learn from this.

I personally have a "no blame" policy when things go wrong (unless something was done that was dishonest or illegal). When a product launch doesn't go as expected, or there's a bug in production that causes an issue - the goal is to have a retrospective, course correct, and learn so that mistakes like this aren't made in the future. We're all human after all.

Heads shouldn't roll - but lessons should be learned and a course correction should be implemented as soon as possible.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

As someone who leads an engineering organization, I object to this. Sometimes ideas sound great on paper and people do their best to implement it, and it turns out to not go as planned. I don't think people's jobs should be on the line, or heads should roll - as long as people acknowledge that it was a disaster and they can learn from this.

They are battling this from both sides. And we are honestly the most annoying critics. They spent weeks debating pricing and went with $15. We complain because it doesn't work well. If they started at $30, we'd complain it was too expensive. This was something that was going to be monetized eventually, there was really no way around that.