Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[MickeyLuv'r]

In our dozens upon dozens of times using FP+, we never waited more than 10 minutes in a FP queue. Ever.

Charging more for an inherently dysfunctional product will not fix it.

Even for Soarin'? and Festival of the Lion King/Nemo?

I also waited well over 30 min for Space Mtn. a number of times.

And 15 minutes for a wide # of attractions. Certainly FoP, Safari, Buzz, 7DMT, TT, RnRC, ToT, Toy Story Mania, all come quickly to mind.

 

[kalel8145]

That is why I have him on ignore. All he does is call people names and flip out on them if they do not talk about Genie+ with the same fear and loathing that he exhibits.

I can imagine. I have started figuring some of the members out. It's not enough to vent frustrations. That's all well and fine, and everyone is entitled to that and some are right on. It's a discussion forum. But everyone else must have the same frustrations, if you don't then they will tell you why you should. If that doesn't change it, then they tell you that your wrong. When that doesn't work they dump on what you're excited about. When that doesn't work then it just goes to insults. Misery loves company and hates happy.

 

[G00fyDad]

Even for Soarin'? and Lion King?

I also waited well over 30 min for Space Mtn. a number of times.

And 15 minutes for a wide # of attractions. Certainly FoP, Safari, Buzz, 7DMT, TT, RnRC, ToT, Toy Story Mania, all come quickly to mind.

With FP+ I never waited more than 20 minutes for ANY attraction.

 

[DCLcruiser]

This argument only works if you think the ticket price is somehow tied to the Genie+ price -- there's no reason to believe that. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the ticket prices have increased less than they would have otherwise.

I'm saying that no matter what the price of a ticket was going to be higher. Now, you have the chance to spend less than other people on the same day, by not buying G+. In the past, you were forced to pay for FP+ (imbedded).

I'm not saying that today's model is a better deal than before. The overall ticket price was less and included more. But, if everything was going up, at least someone can spend less than me.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Because that system worked for a lot of people. I'd love a universal type system, but I don't think it will work at WDW because of the demand versus the attractions

It would work at maybe $300 per person.

 

[mikejs78]

With FP+ I never waited more than 20 minutes for ANY attraction.

You must have had extremely good luck then. And I'm a huge fan and defender of FastPass+. Most attractions I would agree with you, but there were a handful that would occasionally get to be 20 or 30 minutes like Soarin, And if any park had a high number of attractions down in a given day, the anytime fast passes could end up driving The fastpass queue up.

 

[Jeff4272]

I'm saying that no matter what the price of a ticket was going to be higher. Now, you have the chance to spend less by not buying G+. In the past, you were forced to pay for FP+ (imbedded).

That logic is so flawed that its incredible that you even put that in print

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

For those who stayed on site or planned ahead it worked well. That seems to be where most of the complaints come from. Many people are so used to planning their Disney vacation down the last minute of each day. Genie+ throws a wrench into plans.

Actually, in 2019, the ones who made out the best were often those who did not plan at all. One of the vlogger tricks was to ONLY book FP one at a time.

If you didn't book 3, then you were not restricted to 1 per hour, nor were you restricted to tiers, and you didn't do anything in advance.

It was especially easy for those who knew when the drops were, or how to take advantage of rides that went down.

 

[DCLcruiser]

That logic is so flawed that its incredible that you even put that in print

You thought ticket prices would stay the same? They don't go up now and then? We're still at 1992 prices?

FP+ always had a cost. It was part of the ticket you paid for. Now, it is itemized and you can choose to not pay it.

 

[Jeff4272]

You thought ticket prices would stay the same? They don't go up now and then? We're still at 1992 prices?

FP+ always had a cost. It was part of the ticket you paid for. Now, it is itemized and you can choose to not pay it.

Lol........please stop, i cannot contain my laughter

 

[Joffrey]

It would work at maybe $300 per person.

It would work at any price as long as they limit the supply. Obviously, they want to maximize profits, but just chasing the highest price to compress the organic sales to where they want makes it more obvious they care about money more than customer satisfaction.

Bottom line, when I go to SeaWorld, Busch Gardens, Universal, I don't feel like I'm getting penalized for not buying the fast pass. At Disney I definitely do.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

It would work at any price as long as they limit the supply. Obviously, they want to maximize profits, but just chasing the highest price to compress the organic sales to where they want makes it more obvious they care about money more than customer satisfaction.

Bottom line, when I go to SeaWorld, Busch Gardens, Universal, I don't feel like I'm getting penalized for not buying the fast pass. At Disney I definitely do.

At $300 per person they could limit the supply to ensure a skip any ride all day product and still make as much as they are with Genie+ and ILL (upwards of $1 million per day). They'd only need to sell 3,000 or so to keep up those profits and standby queues would be basically normal.

 

[UNCgolf]

You thought ticket prices would stay the same? They don't go up now and then? We're still at 1992 prices?

FP+ always had a cost. It was part of the ticket you paid for. Now, it is itemized and you can choose to not pay it.

This is where I think your logic is flawed, and why I used the parking fee example earlier.

I don't think it's correct to believe Genie+ is now itemized out as a separate expense. It's far more likely that you're still paying for FP+ in the ticket price (because it was incorporated as part of the price a long time ago), and now you're just paying an additional fee on top for Genie+. In other words, people who are buying Genie+ are essentially paying twice (it's not quite that simple since Genie+ is not exactly the same as FP+, but for simplicity's sake), and other people are paying for something they no longer get. Just like with the hotel parking fees.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

That sounds like a pretty simple fix then.


It sounds like they knew it would not be a functional happy thing if there was to many people using it.

There's only 2 ways to reduce the number of people using it:
1 - Just limit the number sold for a day. Once capacity is reached, just stop selling it. Just like park reservations run out.
2 - Raise the price, then raise it some more, then do it again. Shift the price until the demand curve hits the supply curve at the point where supply isn't to many for it to work.

It seems they ruled out the first and aren't doing the second. The only solution that leaves is redesigning the entire thing to work with more people using it. Something that's much harder then the other two solutions.

If they want that 2PM guest to be able to buy it that day, because supply isn't limited, the only fix is pricing it so high that demand is curtailed.


I'm not saying I want to pay $50 per person per day for G+. But, at least the people paying that would get something of value then. Assuming $50 is high enough.

Do they limit the number of VIP tours they sell per day? Or, is it just demand limited because of the cost?

They could also - in theory- do what WDW used to do - not tell everyone about it.

I mean, that ship has probably sailed for G+ and ILL, but historically WDW was able to offer plenty of options/perks that aren't well known.

I can think of a few, like the E-ride nights. Most folks didn't know what it was at the time. Another thing not everyone knew was that a hotel parking pass = parking all over WDW.

 

[Jeff4272]

At $300 per person they could limit the supply to ensure a skip any ride all day product and still make as much as they are with Genie+ and ILL (upwards of $1 million per day). They'd only need to sell 3,000 or so to keep up those profits and standby queues would be basically normal.

Only problem is that takes away VIP tours........

 

[Jeff4272]

This is where I think your logic is flawed, and why I used the parking fee example earlier.

I don't think it's correct to believe Genie+ is now itemized out as a separate expense. It's far more likely that you're still paying for FP+ in the ticket price (because it was incorporated as part of the price a long time ago), and now you're just paying an additional fee on top for Genie+. In other words, people who are buying Genie+ are paying twice, and other people are paying for something they no longer get. Just like with the hotel parking fees.

Correct.........

If ticket price inflation was 10% during FP+ time, it will still be 10% during Genie+ time

AND

you will have to now pay for Genie+ and its annual 10% price increases


Its not like they dropped ticket prices when they dropped FP+

 

[mikejs78]

They could also - in theory- do what WDW used to do - not tell everyone about it.

I mean, that ship has probably sailed for G+ and ILL, but historically WDW was able to offer plenty of options/perks that aren't well known.

I can think of a few, like the E-ride nights. Most folks didn't know what it was at the time. Another thing not everyone knew was that a hotel parking pass = parking all over WDW.

All that stuff happened in the pre-internet age. With all the vloggers and websites and Facebook pages that talk about this stuff ad nauseam, I don't think that hiding benefits would work anymore.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Only problem is that takes away VIP tours........

Bingo. Which is why it doesn't interest them.

 

[DCLcruiser]

This is where I think your logic is flawed, and why I used the parking fee example earlier.

I don't think it's correct to believe Genie+ is now itemized out as a separate expense. It's far more likely that you're still paying for FP+ in the ticket price (because it was incorporated as part of the price a long time ago), and now you're just paying an additional fee on top for Genie+. In other words, people who are buying Genie+ are paying twice, and other people are paying for something they no longer get. Just like with the hotel parking fees.

I know we are all paying more now. I don't dispute that.

Genie+ is an add-on, like a Park Hopper. I no longer hop, so I save money on that. Genie+ can be the same. If you don't want it, you don't pay for it.

Disney said starting Oct 2021, a single day starts at $109 and you can add Genie+ for $15.
Disney could have announced, starting Oct 2021, a single day starts at $124, which includes Genie+.

They were never going to offer $109 inclusive of Genie+. I realize they did that in the past, but prices are up. At least now, some people can still pay $109 (for less value, since they don't get G+ or FP+).

 

[Jeff4272]

I know we are all paying more now. I don't dispute that.

Genie+ is an add-on, like a Park Hopper. I no longer hop, so I save money on that. Genie+ can be the same. If you don't want it, you don't pay for it.

Disney said starting Oct 2021, a single day starts at $109 and you can add Genie+ for $15.
Disney could have announced, starting Oct 2021, a single day starts at $124, which includes Genie+.

They were never going to offer $109 inclusive of Genie+. I realize they did that in the past, but prices are up. At least now, some people can still pay $109 (for less value, since they don't get G+ or FP+).

Sorry not trying to be mean but you dont see the flaw in that argument?

Look at it from todays prices vs yesteryear


Now you have to pay $124 for what you used to pay $109 for (park entrance and line skipping)

in your logic, then you should have only have to pay $94 ($109 MINUS $15 value of the FP+) for your math to work

If your logic was right, they should have dropped park tickets to $94 when they switched to Genie+ and they obviously didnt

get it?