Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Chip Chipperson]

you got ROTR a second time with a 2 minute wait? Then theres ZERO chance this was a 9/10 day

and if you did get on ity with a 2 minute wait the SECOND time you rode, then theres no need to pay for ILL or Genie-

No, they're saying there was a 2-minute wait when they arrived for their ILL window. The first time riding ROTR was at rope-drop without an ILL. You can't book the same ride twice in one day regardless of whether it's an ILL or G+ selection.

 

[ChrisM]

you got ROTR a second time with a 2 minute wait? Then theres ZERO chance this was a 9/10 day

and if you did get on ity with a 2 minute wait the SECOND time you rode, then theres no need to pay for ILL or Genie-

Second ride on Rise was our using our purchased ILL. LL line was extremely short.

And 9/10 is the "actual" reported crowd size for 3/21 on Touring Plans. How accurate that is, I can't say. Standby wait times for Rise seemed to be roughly 100-140 minutes throughout the day.

 

[Disney4Lyfe]

All the details are here: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...ap-march-20th-21st-2022.976970/#post-10205173

8:30am open, 8:00 early entry open. Arrived in an Uber to a closed parking plaza at 6:56am. Parking plaza was opened promptly at 7:00am.

Thanks!

 

[pdude81]

Im not buying it..........no chance you get ROTR and SDD at 7am

Well if you got the ROTR at 7, slinky refreshes 10 or 15 mins later for second drop. I personally didn't do this as I've been on ROTR a bunch of times and didn't care to pay for it or worry about it.

 

[pdude81]

you're contradicting yourself.....When booking FP+, there was ZERO need to use your phone for the first 3 rides since they are booked well in advance

Its just not true

In FP+ time you got the most number of skips by having your choices early in the day and constantly refreshing. Some of the same principles and strategic elements still apply. However, you can't get multiple of the same ride anymore like you could back then. That makes order of operations a little more tricky. And with this system, since you can't exchange and have to cancel and restart your timer, people are afraid to make a change. That works in my favor too. I worked both systems pretty hard for maximum benefits. The difference is that this one requires working it hard to do well.

 

[danlb_2000]

I am questioning the fact that you got all those rides........It's virtually impossible

First, if you get an ILL for ROTR, by the time you are done, all of the MFSR and MMRR are gone

for eg. right now MMRR, MFSR, TOT, ROTR, SDD have all been sold out since before 10am

So you pay for ROTR and then you pay again for MFSR OR MMRR (if you have 2 people booking simultaneously) and thats just not worth it (money, getting up early, not knowing return time, etc, etc etc,)

From what I have seen MFSR and MMRR usually don't see out in the first few minutes, that is the only thing that would prevent someone from getting both ROTR and one of those two. Now, getting both ROTR and Slinky Dog is difficult.

 

[gerarar]

No, they're saying there was a 2-minute wait when they arrived for their ILL window. The first time riding ROTR was at rope-drop without an ILL. You can't book the same ride twice in one day regardless of whether it's an ILL or G+ selection.

They literally said they used an ILL for a 2 minute wait, so how was that even misinterpreted lol...

• Rise a second time with ILL (waited 2 minutes)

 

[natatomic]

you're contradicting yourself.....When booking FP+, there was ZERO need to use your phone for the first 3 rides since they are booked well in advance

Its just not true

To be fair, I was often on my phone a lot with FP+ only because I am a local and any trip I made to Disney was usually a spontaneous, day-of thing. So I had to spend most of the day refreshing trying to make my FP schedule as efficient is possible. But that was on me, from waiting to the last minute. If someone had the ability to book 60 days in advance, yeah, I don’t know why they’d need to spend the whole day on their phone. Not until after they used their first 3 FPs anyway.

 

[rawisericho]

I am questioning the fact that you got all those rides........It's virtually impossible

First, if you get an ILL for ROTR, by the time you are done, all of the MFSR and MMRR are gone

for eg. right now MMRR, MFSR, TOT, ROTR, SDD have all been sold out since before 10am

So you pay for ROTR and then you pay again for MFSR OR MMRR (if you have 2 people booking simultaneously) and thats just not worth it (money, getting up early, not knowing return time, etc, etc etc,)

It's decently fresh in my mind so I can walk through it. It was Sunday March 13th.

-Stayed at Boardwalk DVC, got RotR around 7:10ish for 12:55-1:55 (nothing was available at 7 on the dot)
-Right after that I got my Genie+ and selected MFSR for around 2:30 to 3:30 (or something like that)
-Got there at rope drop for early entry and wife grabbed a Carrot Cake cookie from Trolley Car, we walked onto RNRC and then waited probably 10-15 minutes on Tower of Terror, so I think around that point it's right after park open, which I think is 8:30 but I can't remember.
-We walked over to TSL and essentially walked on to TSMM, then we grabbed a pop tart and a coffee at Woody's Lunch Box and met my Aunt and Uncle on SDD, which was about a 40-45 minute wait
-After we're done, we have our second Genie+ selection so we grab MMRR for like 4ish or something
-We walk over to Galaxy's Edge, I grab a blue milk and kinda just look at the land for a ton of time
-We go over to Ronto Roasters and split a Ronto Breakfast Wrap
-We look at the marketplace and geek out over most of it and the rest of SW:GE
-We walk onto the Muppets and by the time we're done, it's around 12 so we hang around and check out Dok Ondar's before our Oga's 12:25 reservation. I got a Bespin Fizz and a Jedi Mind Trick, my wife grabbed a Fuzzy Tauntaun. We're there for about 20 minutes or so.
-After that we head over to Star Tours for standby, I think it was about 30 minutes. Around this time I'm able to get a TSMM ride around 8 something
-We head over to RoTR for our LL, it's amazing and tops HPFJ as my favorite theme park ride on the planet
-After that we head over to Baseline Tap House and grab a beer flight, pretzel, and charcuterie board, we set up a mobile order for later to grab our Wookie Cookie
-We head over to MFSR and ride that, we then eat our Wookie Cookie and miss Indiana Jones as there's no more room in the theater. I get a Star Tours G+ for 5ish or something
-We hang out and just chill on Sunset Blvd when it becomes apparently that the ToT and RRC lines are way too long. Then we go to MMRR before heading over to Star Tours.
-We check in around 6:40 to Brown Derby and are seated, we exit around 7:50 and go on TSMM and then head over to MFSR as our final ride of the day, probably waited 20 minutes since it was around park close.

Now you have my full itinerary.

 

[DisneyCane]

Hmmm....and just what do you think is happening with Genie+?

Exactly. The suggestion was to go back to FP+ but charge. You'd just end up with the same thing.

 

[G00fyDad]

It's decently fresh in my mind so I can walk through it. It was Sunday March 13th.

-Stayed at Boardwalk DVC, got RotR around 7:10ish for 12:55-1:55 (nothing was available at 7 on the dot)
-Right after that I got my Genie+ and selected MFSR for around 2:30 to 3:30 (or something like that)
-Got there at rope drop for early entry and wife grabbed a Carrot Cake cookie from Trolley Car, we walked onto RNRC and then waited probably 10-15 minutes on Tower of Terror, so I think around that point it's right after park open, which I think is 8:30 but I can't remember.
-We walked over to TSL and essentially walked on to TSMM, then we grabbed a pop tart and a coffee at Woody's Lunch Box and met my Aunt and Uncle on SDD, which was about a 40-45 minute wait
-After we're done, we have our second Genie+ selection so we grab MMRR for like 4ish or something
-We walk over to Galaxy's Edge, I grab a blue milk and kinda just look at the land for a ton of time
-We go over to Ronto Roasters and split a Ronto Breakfast Wrap
-We look at the marketplace and geek out over most of it and the rest of SW:GE
-We walk onto the Muppets and by the time we're done, it's around 12 so we hang around and check out Dok Ondar's before our Oga's 12:25 reservation. I got a Bespin Fizz and a Jedi Mind Trick, my wife grabbed a Fuzzy Tauntaun. We're there for about 20 minutes or so.
-After that we head over to Star Tours for standby, I think it was about 30 minutes. Around this time I'm able to get a TSMM ride around 8 something
-We head over to RoTR for our LL, it's amazing and tops HPFJ as my favorite theme park ride on the planet
-After that we head over to Baseline Tap House and grab a beer flight, pretzel, and charcuterie board, we set up a mobile order for later to grab our Wookie Cookie
-We head over to MFSR and ride that, we then eat our Wookie Cookie and miss Indiana Jones as there's no more room in the theater. I get a Star Tours G+ for 5ish or something
-We hang out and just chill on Sunset Blvd when it becomes apparently that the ToT and RRC lines are way too long. Then we go to MMRR before heading over to Star Tours.
-We check in around 6:40 to Brown Derby and are seated, we exit around 7:50 and go on TSMM and then head over to MFSR as our final ride of the day, probably waited 20 minutes since it was around park close.

Now you have my full itinerary.

It doesn't matter with him. He thinks everyone is a liar if they do not have the same opinions as he does.

 

[natatomic]

Exactly. The suggestion was to go back to FP+ but charge. You'd just end up with the same thing.

I’m not sure what good that would do. If they’re saying they only “guaranteeing” 2-3 genie+ experiences, how could they suddenly guarantee 3 to everyone?

Someone on Twitter made a good point - Disney used to guarantee 3 FPs for every ticket holder. Even I, as a last-minute day-of planner, almost always had 3 FPs to use for me an my kids.

Suddenly they can’t even guarantee 3 LLs for a smaller number of guests (because now it’s only for people who are choosing to pay the fee, which obviously not everyone is doing). How is that possible? I know not EVERYTHING is open, but almost everything that has FP is. Nemo is the only thing that had FP previously that has still not opened (that I can think of, but please correct me if I’m missing a significant number of other FP options that remain closed).

ETA: just want to add that I WISH they’d go back to the free FP+ system. Or no FP at all. So I’m not against your idea, of course! I just don’t see how it would work since Disney is having a hard time managing a system that guarantees fewer FPs per user of the system.

 

[CAV]

Not the CM's fault that Genie sucks. Maybe some execs need to come to park and actually experience Genie+. I'm betting that would cause an immediate change.

Better yet, they should spend about 4 hours a month answering phones in guest services.

 

[Chi84]

ot

Exactly. The suggestion was to go back to FP+ but charge. You'd just end up with the same thing.

And that would be fine with me. I'd be able to schedule FOP, EE and KS in the late afternoon/evening on our water park day while avoiding conflicts with our dinner reservation. Try that with this new system (I used it in late October). FP+ wasn't for everyone, but it worked very well for a whole lot of people who miss it and would gladly pay for it. Disney already heard from me - I hope others contact them as well.

 

[Purduevian]

I’m not sure what good that would do. If they’re saying they only “guaranteeing” 2-3 genie+ experiences, how could they suddenly guarantee 3 to everyone?

Someone on Twitter made a good point - Disney used to guarantee 3 FPs for every ticket holder. Even I, as a last-minute day-of planner, almost always had 3 FPs to use for me an my kids.

Suddenly they can’t even guarantee 3 LLs for a smaller number of guests (because now it’s only for people who are choosing to pay the fee, which obviously not everyone is doing). How is that possible? I know not EVERYTHING is open, but almost everything that has FP is. Nemo is the only thing that had FP previously that has still not opened (that I can think of, but please correct me if I’m missing a significant number of other FP options that remain closed).

Because people don't know how to use the system to its fullest. There for sure are enough for every single guest to get 3+ a day, but people are scooping them up before some people have a chance to get a "good" third attraction.

Compare the casual guest to the one using the system to the fullest. and using thrill data

Time	Hardcore Guest	Casual Guest
7:00am	Books an afternoon SDD (1LL)	Still Sleeping
9:30am	still on 2 hour cool down	Books evening ToT (1LL)
10:30am	Refreshes and grabs an 11:15am RnRC (2LL)	still on cool down
11:15am	Refreshes a lot and grabs a noon TSMM (3LL)	still on cool down
11:30am	waiting for noon TSMM	Books and evening TSMM as that, alien, and ST are all that's left!
Noon	Refreshes and grabs a 1pm Alien (4LL)	Still on cool down
1pm	Refreshes and grabs a 1:20pm ST (5LL)	Still on cool down
1:20pm	Refreshes and grabs an evening ToT (6LL)	still on cool down
1:30	on 2 hour wait	Finally is able to book 3rd LL, but somehow all the rides except ST are gone.

Now multiple this times tens of thousands of people. The hardcore people have a chance at 6 or even more LLs before the casual user is able to book their 3rd.
Back in FP+ days, the casual person might only learn about FP+ at 9:30am still, but they get to make 3 selections before anyone is allowed to make their 4th!

One final thing. ILL means there is lower capacity for G+ vs FP+ making this issue even worse.
On my MK day by 11am (2hours after opening) I had already booked 3LL. By 1pm (4hours after park opening) I had booked 5LL, by 3pm (6 hours after park open) I had booked 6LL.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I’m not sure what good that would do. If they’re saying they only “guaranteeing” 2-3 genie+ experiences, how could they suddenly guarantee 3 to everyone?

Someone on Twitter made a good point - Disney used to guarantee 3 FPs for every ticket holder. Even I, as a last-minute day-of planner, almost always had 3 FPs to use for me an my kids.

Suddenly they can’t even guarantee 3 LLs for a smaller number of guests (because now it’s only for people who are choosing to pay the fee, which obviously not everyone is doing). How is that possible? I know not EVERYTHING is open, but almost everything that has FP is. Nemo is the only thing that had FP previously that has still not opened (that I can think of, but please correct me if I’m missing a significant number of other FP options that remain closed).

Even worse, the language used in the disclaimer doesn't even guarantee 2-3 attractions. It just explains what is "typical." Only get 1 ride on a busy day? "Sorry, sometimes that happens. Today's attendance wasn't typical." From a guest satisfaction standpoint, I think they may have been better off keeping FP+ as it was and just raising ticket prices a little higher than they did. The current system leaves some people feeling like they're getting an inferior experience because they can't/won't pay the $15/person upcharge for what used to be free and those who pay are having varying degrees of satisfaction that range from "I wasted my money for this???" to "I kind of like it." If nothing else, it will be interested to see if leadership digs their heels in and keeps things how they are or if they swallow their pride and try to make improvements and spin it in a face-saving way. They can't really go back to an all-free version of FP+ now because they've already included that in future revenue projections and investors won't react kindly to giving that up without an adequate replacement for that new revenue stream, so anything they do will have to have a fee attached to it now.

 

[ToTBellHop]

That's where I'm at.

Genie+ doesn't hold up well in high crowds.

Neither did FP+ (it was useless Presidents Weekend). But, free services that don’t work well are less problematic.

 

[ToTBellHop]

If they did that they'd have to severely limit sales. People would have the expectation that if they buy it, it will guarantee they can book the 3 that they want. No matter how many disclaimers there are, it would be a guest services nightmare when people can't get reservations for the popular rides after they paid.

Why would they have to limit sales? Everyone had FP+. Just give resort guests priority.

 

[Touchdown]

I went to Dollywood yesterday and it was the most crowded I had seen it in a long time 30-60 min waits for all major attractions. But guess what, due to them limiting their time saver passes (unlimiteds were sold out prior to opening, one time use by noon) it was still reasonable, time saver guests were happy, regular guests were happy. Dollywood however did likely lose out on some profit but gained good will. Disney is incapable of doing that.

 

[dmw]

I went to Dollywood yesterday and it was the most crowded I had seen it in a long time 30-60 min waits for all major attractions. But guess what, due to them limiting their time saver passes (unlimiteds were sold out prior to opening, one time use by noon) it was still reasonable, time saver guests were happy, regular guests were happy. Dollywood however did likely lose out on some profit but gained good will. Disney is incapable of doing that.

I'm looking forward to our Dollywood visits this year. We are staying at DreamMore and getting the free limited timesaver. Will be interesting to see how we feel about using it, compared to FP+