Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[JohnD]

Not sure how I see this working long term.

my guess is Genie+ will be a flop as soon as people see how it works and figure out it’s major flaws. When it’s slow, there’s no need for it. When it’s busy, there won’t be enough rides you can get on to justify the cost. When you couple that with having to get up at 7am every day and cannot pick your return time, the cost is just not worth the effort.

IAS to me will be a short term success for the major high profile rides and during extremely busy times like thanksgiving and Christmas but as you can already tell, nobody will buy space Mountain, Everest, frozen, etc. during average park days.

The only way I can see this working (and it needs to have programming to back it up) is to make it similar to how FP+ was handled but include a refund component. i.e. Open up LL access for a list of rides that appear on the app. If you choose a ride that wasn't your ILL ride when tapping your band in the LL, a refund is automatically generated. If you go back to the same ride later in the day, the fee is retained. If you don't go back to that ILL the rest of the day (e.g. the ride remains closed or you simply don't go back) the fee is refunded.

 

[mikejs78]

I don't necessarily think a ramp up of LL access will be dependent on crowd levels, but I believe we are seeing a gentle roll out. I think we need to wait to see how it develops, but I think as of now Disney knows they can sell a lot more LL.

For certain attractions, yes. Actually I think some of their ILL selections may be holding back purchases of G+. Take Everest. I don't see many people buying this ILL at all, and the fact that it's not on G+ may prevent a number of people from buying G+ on their AK Day. If they are smart, they will move towards maximizing G+ value and reserving ILL for only the really in-demand attractions, which to me are Rise and FoP currently (and maybe Rat), and will be Tron and Guardians as soon as they open.

 

[LovePop]

Looks like Rise is done as of 9:30ish

Good to know. That means Rise is available for purchase for at least 2 hours in the morning, so resort guests have a decent chance to buy it if they wish to part with the money. By decent, I mean compared to the boarding group where the chance of scoring the boarding group is less than 50%, from what I read. At least if you do it by getting up early, you know you can get it. Of course, this might change when crowd level goes up, but even then, I don't think it will ever be all gone after a few seconds like with the boarding group.

If Disney doesn't issue immediate refunds for when the ride goes down, then the best deal is to get LL as early as possible, giving more time for the ride to recover, and also not make any firm commitments for the rest of the day such as ADRs, so that one is free to go back when the ride is available.

 

[wdwmagic]

For certain attractions, yes. Actually I think some of their ILL selections may be holding back purchases of G+. Take Everest. I don't see many people buying this ILL at all, and the fact that it's not on G+ may prevent a number of people from buying G+ on their AK Day. If they are smart, they will move towards maximizing G+ value and reserving ILL for only the really in-demand attractions, which to me are Rise and FoP currently (and maybe Rat), and will be Tron and Guardians as soon as they open.

Yes Tron and Guardians are going to do very well with sales. LL will really reshape openings for all new additions to WDW.

 

[mightynine]

This is the issue you run into with charging double for access to something that can’t be guaranteed. I absolutely think a full refund of an ILL charge - along with Disney’s “store credit” - should be on the table and easy to do in the app.

Or perhaps a “tap out” system could be used at the exit of a ride where the ILL charge won’t be processed until that point, like on transit systems.

 

[homerdance]

This is still Disney at WDW - that is not new. Disney's attitude towards guest recovery doesn't swing wildly based on a new offer. You guys are literally acting like Disney is gonna just give you the bird even if you raise a concern. Not only are you wildly concerned over a trivial sized transaction... its all ignoring the DECADES of behavior that Disney has shown no signs of diverging from.

Yeah. Having to take time out of my vacation day to go wait in line at guest services to argue about money is about as magical as it gets. Get bent.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think when the dust settles all the wait times will be the same as when we had FastPass +

The wait times when using DG+ and ILL will be the same as they were for FastPass + and the standby wait times will be the same as what they were with FastPass +

The only difference, Disney is now making money for something that was previously free.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Poor analogy.
You paid to get into a theme park and can do many, many things including a FREE chance to get in a boarding group.

With ILL you purchased in advance to ride a specific attraction, then never get to ride what you paid for.
It's like paying for a Mickey bar and not getting the Mickey bar.

Fair point. I guess I was trying to show the general direction they’re taking. Though I’m sure many guests have shown up after seeing ads for ROTR expecting to be able to see it, only to learn about the whole boarding group thing after they arrived. Not a bait and switch but not the best approach for a business based on customer satisfaction. Let the buyer beware as they say.

Edited to clarify- I wasn’t using the boarding group analogy to defend the company. I think the BG thing is as ill-advised as G+ and ILL (and free parking and outrageous hotel prices and everything else they’ve been doing lately).

 

[drizgirl]

Is anyone else as amused as I am that Disney expects you to stand in a line (at guest relations) to get a fake refund for something that was supposed to help you avoid standing in a line?

Maybe they could let you cut that line at guest relations if you are willing to settle for half of a fake refund.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

It sounds as though paid lightning lane will be a good incentive for Disney to stay on top of maintenance on these attractions. Downtime is a headache even if they try to avail themselves of options besides refunds.

hahahahahahahahahaha

pardon me. Sorry. Involuntary reaction.

 

[LovePop]

For certain attractions, yes. Actually I think some of their ILL selections may be holding back purchases of G+. Take Everest. I don't see many people buying this ILL at all, and the fact that it's not on G+ may prevent a number of people from buying G+ on their AK Day. If they are smart, they will move towards maximizing G+ value and reserving ILL for only the really in-demand attractions, which to me are Rise and FoP currently (and maybe Rat), and will be Tron and Guardians as soon as they open.

Agreed. Disney seems to feel that they must assign 2 rides per park to LL, when in reality they should assign LL to all high demand attractions regardless of their location, and leave the others to Genie+. That way, each product is being sold according to its value, and the value of both Genie+ and LL will be maximized. Like you say, Everest is being wasted as a LL whereas it would serve as a major draw for Genie+.

 

[wdwmagic]

Agreed. Disney seems to feel that they must assign 2 rides per park to LL, when in reality they should assign LL to all high demand attractions regardless of their location, and leave the others to Genie+. That way, each product is being sold according to its value, and the value of both Genie+ and LL will be maximized. Like you say, Everest is being wasted as a LL whereas it would serve as a major draw for Genie+.

They were shuffling the attraction deck right up until launch, so I would expect we will see changes as they see how demand goes.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

We've already established you can get a refund in the form of a gift card, so, it's not "that's that."

it is for your cash.

 

[fgmnt]

If I order breakfast in app from Chick-fil-A and they run out of the food before I get there or breakfast ends before I check in, I am issued a refund back on the card. I am not charged until the service/good has been provided. If I check in and am not able to receive the food, I still get charged.

Other large companies can handle holding/delaying transactions. Buying an ILL could simply work in a way that your card isnt charged until you tap in or your return time lapses. If the ride is down in your return time, you are given a new time or opportunity to cancel. If the ride is down for the rest of the day, the charge never happens.

I know Disney limits itself in where and how it handles cash transactions for experiences (smart) but this is a new thing they are doing, offering the opportunity to buy a specific experience on your phone. No will call required, no visit to a hostess stand, vacation planner, or guest relations base station. A gift card is better than telling you to pound sand, but the purchase process could have been developed to avoid this entirely.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Fair point. I guess I was trying to show the general direction they’re taking. Though I’m sure many guests have shown up after seeing ads for GE/ROTR expecting to be able to see it, only to learn about the whole boarding group thing after they arrived. Not a bait and switch but not the best approach for a business based on customer satisfaction. Let the buyer beware as they say.

Totally agree. For sure there were folks who made the trip to WDW specifically to ride ROTR but did not know what hoops they needed to jump through to make it happen and there were a lot of folks knew about the hoops but did not win the lottery as you say.

There will be folks visiting WDW now having no idea about DG, DG+ and ILL.

There will be a lot of splanin to do as Rickey Ricardo would say.

 

[monothingie]

They were shuffling the attraction deck right up until launch, so I would expect we will see changes as they see how demand goes.

Hopefully the way it went at DLP.

 

[Indy_UK]

You can't have 2 rides in say MK, Epcot and HS and only have 1 in AK though otherwise the pressure will be MUCH greater to add more E ticket attractions

 

[Virtual Toad]

They were shuffling the attraction deck right up until launch, so I would expect we will see changes as they see how demand goes.

If enough people pony up, I could see them adding more and more attractions to ILL. It’s too easy of a cash grab for them to resist. The pay for play future has only just begun.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

There's nothing to defend. If your ILL is not fulfilled, you get your money back.

The silly proposal is the person who suggested they're entitled to per-minute damages for time spent at Guest Relations.

you don’t get your money back.

I own multiple companies. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for some of you people to be my customers.

 

[LovePop]

I think when the dust settles all the wait times will be the same as when we had FastPass +

The wait times when using DG+ and ILL will be the same as they were for FastPass + and the standby wait times will be the same as what they were with FastPass +

The only difference, Disney is now making money for something that was previously free.

It shouldn't be the same because not everybody will pay for Genie+ or LL, which means all lines, paid or unpaid, should be shorter. The difference is from people who skip a ride because the don't have a pass, but they would have gone if they had a free pass.

If everybody pays for Genie+ and LL like it's free, then things should be nearly the same as when there were free fastpasses.

So far, it looks to me like half the people won't be paying anything. That should translate to a tremendous reduction for all line wait times, compared to the past free system. It's not an improvement for people who don't pay but use the free fastpass frequently.