Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Chi84]

Not before making money. They have made that abundantly clear.

But most businesses strike a balance between those two if for no other reason than to stay in business. I understand the company has changed, but I would be surprised if they allow the type of nightmare experience you’ve described in your last few posts. It seems reasonable to at least let the system become operational before coming to these dire conclusions.

 

[pdude81]

I believe this is where your thinking is much different than mine. There is every reason to believe they will. FP was free for all parkgoers. So, there was no monetary benefit to herding more and more people into that cowpen. It assisted Disney with advanced planning of approximately how many guests would visit for the day so they could plan CM usage. However, now that it MAKES THEM MORE MONEY I see no reason not to pressure guests customers into buying it once in the park.

Again, I forsee this happening over time, not immediately. But don't think that isn't their goal: to get 80%+ of customers each day to buy Genie+.

I think monetizing fastpass is more than enough to increase revenues here, for those who chose to pay for it. Maxpass cost $20 a day in DL and a lot of people didn't bother with it even though it was a big benefit to flexibility over paper fastpass system they could use for free. Now the only way you get the passes is to pay for them in one way or another, and there are a lot of people who just won't pay.

What you're suggesting is that they will make it near impossible to have a good day without purchasing Genie+ down the road, and I don't see that being at all desirable to the company. Disney doesn't exist in a vacuum, and they are aware of the pricing and offerings of the competition. Also they are still selling (at a minimum trying to sell) customers on a "magical" vacation and experience. I think what they are doing with all the price hikes and paid fastpass is trying to make a good chunk of money with lower crowds while they build out capacity a bit, and then continue to reap the rewards when there are more passes to be sold. They are being quite aggressive with pricing now, and already had to lower prices on passes for DLP, so it is unclear that the market would tolerate further squeezing.

 

[VaderTron]

But most businesses strike a balance between those two if for no other reason than to stay in business. I understand the company has changed, but I would be surprised if they allow the type of nightmare experience you’ve described in your last few posts. It seems reasonable to at least let the system become operational before coming to these dire conclusions.

Many of the current standards and changes at WDW parks were once considered "nightmare experiences" as well. They have chased away many who knew a different Disney in the past, were begrudgingly accepted by the Disney loyalists, and never hindered those who are new to WDW parks and don't know any better. Disney is betting on more of the same.

 

[mightynine]

At least we're not racing across Epcot to grab a paper Lightning Lane.

Speak for yourself, it was a great way to work off those Mickey waffles!

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I wasn’t referring to PM EMH at all

Then you are arguing into the wind. Please stop quoting me.

 

[Chi84]

Many of the current standards and changes at WDW parks were once considered "nightmare experiences" as well. They have chased away many who knew a different Disney in the past, were begrudgingly accepted by the Disney loyalists, and never hindered those who are new to WDW parks and don't know any better. Disney is betting on more of the same.

The old days have been gone for some time now, and I don't think the people who remember them and long to have them back are Disney's target audience.

We've been visiting regularly for the past 37 years and have always been able to roll with the changes and have a great time. We found our personal sweet spot with FP+ because it worked perfectly with the way we like to vacation. The resorts, entertainment and dining are as important to us as the parks, maybe more so. I'll definitely miss FP+. Also, there's no question that the current management is miles apart from what we experienced throughout the years.

That said, we've always approached our WDW vacation with a positive attitude and an open mind toward working with whatever system is in place. If guests are having the kind of nightmare experience you foresee, they won't return. Disney will either adjust or eventually go out of business. I don't think it will be the latter, but no one knows for certain.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Speak for yourself, it was a great way to work off those Mickey waffles!

I remember one August morning at Animal Kingdom after drinking way too much chocolate milk at Chef Mickey's. It was approximately 9,000 degrees in that park and I was running back and forth between Expedition Everest and Kilimanjaro Safaris all morning. I threw up in a trash can and was down with heat exhaustion for the next two days.

 

[Chi84]

drinking way too much chocolate milk at Chef Mickey's

Just how old are you?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Just how old are you?

This would have been the year Everest opened, so 2006, and I would have been 16.

 

[Patcheslee]

I think monetizing fastpass is more than enough to increase revenues here, for those who chose to pay for it. Maxpass cost $20 a day in DL and a lot of people didn't bother with it even though it was a big benefit to flexibility over paper fastpass system they could use for free. Now the only way you get the passes is to pay for them in one way or another, and there are a lot of people who just won't pay.

What you're suggesting is that they will make it near impossible to have a good day without purchasing Genie+ down the road, and I don't see that being at all desirable to the company. Disney doesn't exist in a vacuum, and they are aware of the pricing and offerings of the competition. Also they are still selling (at a minimum trying to sell) customers on a "magical" vacation and experience. I think what they are doing with all the price hikes and paid fastpass is trying to make a good chunk of money with lower crowds while they build out capacity a bit, and then continue to reap the rewards when there are more passes to be sold. They are being quite aggressive with pricing now, and already had to lower prices on passes for DLP, so it is unclear that the market would tolerate further squeezing.

What's the chances they monetize the ability to use LL on the same ride instead of limiting it to once per day? Dollywood went this route as capacity increased. Believe it starts at an additional $15/person to be unlimited.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I've always wondered if hours have been cut over the past decade or so. The only historical park times I could find were on Touring Plans. So, picking 2011 and 2019 (to make the times all pre-COVID) I scraped the MK opening and closing times off of the Touring Plans daily crowd pages for every day in 2011 and 2019, and calculated the total hours MK was open in each year.

In 2011, MK was open for a total of 4940 hours

In 2019, MK was open for a total of 4651 hours.

So, a reduction of 289 hours, or -5.8%.

Some assumptions and caveats:
- I'm assuming Touring Plans' hours are correct.
- These hours only include regular park hours. No parties, after hour events, nor Early Magic Hours.
- This does not address capacity increase/decreases. Without accurate hourly capacities (about which there is much disagreement), this figure is harder to calculate.

The whole discussion of park hours was because 20+ pages back Patcheslee said they preferred 1am over RD as the best time of day to ride attractions without having to use any fast passes.

Almost the only time the parks were open that late was during Extra Magic Hours and on major holidays. For many years, Epcot's regular closing time was 9pm AK's was 5/6pm, HS's ranged between 7-10pm. The park that ranged the most, and stayed open the latest was MK.

Generally speaking though, touring the parks at 1am meant using EMH hours. Which were themselves offered as a kind of alternative to FP.

Looking ahead, touring until 1am will only work if the parks are open until 1am. I'm not confident that will happen.

 

[VaderTron]

What's the chances they monetize the ability to use LL on the same ride instead of limiting it to once per day? Dollywood went this route as capacity increased. Believe it starts at an additional $15/person to be unlimited.

Very high. This is the entry level point. They will continue to evaluate the reactions of customers and, through gradualism, continue to increase the costs and reward the higher paying guests with a better experience.

 

[Rich Brownn]

They just made this even more confusing for reasons unknown. Fastpass you had access to a Fastpass lane. Genie+ gives you access to a... Lightning Lane, but not for every ride. For those you need access to a yet-to-be-named a la carté option that also gives you access to the Lightning Lane.

They really should have kept the branding consistent between the app and the physical real estate in the park. Plus, the lack of branding on the "pay per ride" is baffling.

Probably so they can swap IAS when needed quickly (ride goes down for rehab, crowds go differently etc).

 

[peter11435]

Then you are arguing into the wind. Please stop quoting me.

I’m not arguing into the wind. The discussion was about overall park hours not simply evening EMH. Not my fault if you didn’t realize that.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I remember one August morning at Animal Kingdom after drinking way too much chocolate milk at Chef Mickey's. It was approximately 9,000 degrees in that park and I was running back and forth between Expedition Everest and Kilimanjaro Safaris all morning. I threw up in a trash can and was down with heat exhaustion for the next two days.

This calls into question the restorative powers of chocolate milk!!

 

[Jeff4272]

If resort guests can purchase IAS at 7am and everyone else has to wait until park opening, why wouldn't Disney just let resort guests purchase their 2 IAS rides 60 days in advance? Whats the difference?


Most resort guests will have already made dining ressies, park pass ressies and will know what park they will be in.........I just don't see why they are making it 7am?

 

[Jrb1979]

If resort guests can purchase IAS at 7am and everyone else has to wait until park opening, why wouldn't Disney just let resort guests purchase their 2 IAS rides 60 days in advance? Whats the difference?


Most resort guests will have already made dining ressies, park pass ressies and will know what park they will be in.........I just don't see why they are making it 7am?

It's cause the price can change daily per ride.

 

[Jeff4272]

It's cause the price can change daily per ride.

What if you could book and would pay regardless of price?

There seems to be a "range" for each ride.........

for eg. if you want to purchase IAS for ROTR, you know it's going to be "between $8-$22 for that day depending on demand" so you buy it and they charge you day of whatever rate they decided on

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I’m not arguing into the wind. The discussion was about overall park hours not simply evening EMH. Not my fault if you didn’t realize that.

If you wish to debate general park hours, then you should quote the person you wish to debate, not me.

 

[jpinkc]

I think my biggest problem with Genie+ (besides having to pay) is this scenario

FP I book my 3 rides for each park. Approx 9AM, 11AM, 1PM. Ok for any park, inbetween those times I would wait standby after 1PM I could use FP for the rest of my day if available on a ride. No fuss no muss. We never really had huge issue doing this.

Now Genie+ 7AM try and get a LL for say Splash at around 9AM well genie offers me a 2:30 time and wont allow me to adjust it. So I then have to pick another ride say HM, well I want it for again early it offers me 1pm and again I cant change it. If its possible to just see available times and attractions for Genie+ LL attractions I have not seen that stated. So forgive me if I missed it in this mess of a thread LOL. But thats one of my biggest problems. I dont want to have to wait 2 hours from park open because Genie+ couldnt give me a morning LL attraction that fits our schedule.