Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Vegas Disney Fan]

So that’s not confusing. Or is it?

It’s confusing right now because no one’s used it, give it a week and all our questions will be answered, another week after that and we’ll all know the tips and tricks to maximize the system.

Fastpass was confusing… the first time we did it.
Fastpass+ was confusing… the first time we did it.
Making ADRs was confusing… the first time we did it.
The dining plan was confusing… the first time we did it.
The virtual queue was confusing… the first time we did it.

WDW has been confusing for a decade, we just forgot because after the first trip we knew how it worked. The same will be true with G+ and ILL.

 

[peter11435]

I get what you’re saying, and I don’t doubt you have far more info about the inner working of WDW decision making than I, but it seems odd that hours would be based on park attendance if hours from 2001-2019 dropped 5.8%, while attendance increased 22.3% over the same period.

Another interesting point when comparing the daily MK hours between 2011 and 2019 is that Disney seemed to make a concerted effort to normalize hours over time. While MK hours in 2011 changed almost on a daily basis, 2019 had many more and longer periods where MK’s hours were the same day to day.

The reason why hours normalized over time is that Disney made efforts to normalize attendance over time. Rather than significant swings of busy and slow the goal for many years was to spread out demand. Several initiatives have been successful in accomplishing this.

 

[peter11435]

Why are the 90s now more important than just the time before? Is the property the same now as it was in the 90s? No. Is the property the same as it was in 2015.. pretty much. You wanna keep cherry picking your references to deny what is right in front of everyone?



No, based on what they want to spend. Deciding 'there isn't enough revenue here to justify keeping the park open' is not the same as arguing there isn't enough demand. All those 10 and 11pm+EMH weren't empty or unvalued or under used.. the company didn't want to keep doing it.

And no the property is not the same as it was in the 90’s. And the park wasn’t the same throughout all of the 2010’s either. Attendance distribution and park capacity have changed dramatically overtime and all contribute to fluctuating hours.

The point about the 90’s was because it was a time before parties and after hours events. And yet despite that there are still a significant number of documented nights that the park closed at 6 or 7 pm.

 

[flynnibus]

And no the property is not the same as it was in the 90’s. And the park wasn’t the same throughout all of the 2010’s either. Attendance distribution and park capacity have changed dramatically overtime and all contribute to fluctuating hours.

The point about the 90’s was because it was a time before parties and after hours events. And yet despite that there are still a significant number of documented nights that the park closed at 6 or 7 pm.

Again… moving the goal posts. No one said the park never closed early. People are talking about the parks closing earlier verse the same period before. The example was given was july and summer.

you trying to say closing the mk at 6 or 7pm in july was the norm?

 

[mikejs78]

Again… moving the goal posts. No one said the park never closed early. People are talking about the parks closing earlier verse the same period before. The example was given was july and summer.

you trying to say closing the mk at 6 or 7pm in july was the norm?

When had the park *ever* closed at 6 or 7 in July, with the exception of right after opening back up in July 2020?

 

[WDWTrojan]

It’s confusing right now because no one’s used it, give it a week and all our answers will be answered, another week after that and we’ll all know the tips and tricks to maximize the system.

Fastpass was confusing… the first time we did it.
Fastpass+ was confusing… the first time we did it.
Making ADRs was confusing… the first time we did it.
The dining plan was confusing… the first time we did it.
The virtual queue was confusing… the first time we did it.

WDW has been confusing for a decade, we just forgot because after the first trip we knew how it worked. The same will be true with G+ and ILL.

They just made this even more confusing for reasons unknown. Fastpass you had access to a Fastpass lane. Genie+ gives you access to a... Lightning Lane, but not for every ride. For those you need access to a yet-to-be-named a la carté option that also gives you access to the Lightning Lane.

They really should have kept the branding consistent between the app and the physical real estate in the park. Plus, the lack of branding on the "pay per ride" is baffling.

 

[DisneyDodo]

They just made this even more confusing for reasons unknown. Fastpass you had access to a Fastpass lane. Genie+ gives you access to a... Lightning Lane, but not for every ride. For those you need access to a yet-to-be-named a la carté option that also gives you access to the Lightning Lane.

They really should have kept the branding consistent between the app and the physical real estate in the park. Plus, the lack of branding on the "pay per ride" is baffling.

I think these bizarre branding decisions were made very intentionally for marketing purposes. They knew guests wouldn't be happy about the new upcharges, so they used convoluted branding to minimize the damage:
- They retired the "FP" name for the purposes of making this system seem like a new offering, rather than them just charging for the old free one.
- They called the service that gives you access to the LLs "G+," so it will sound like just a premium version of their free Genie product, keeping the primary focus on Genie, rather than the paid line-skips.
- They didn't give IAS a name in order to keep the attention off it, as it was obviously going to be the least popular aspect of the new system.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Genie+ simply doesn't appear complicated to those of us who have navigated the different versions of Fastpass over the years. There's a few quirks and rule changes but most of us will figure it out quickly. It's not rocket science and we're not idiots.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Genie+ simply doesn't appear complicated to those of us who have navigated the different versions of Fastpass over the years. There's a few quirks and rule changes but most of us will figure it out quickly. It's not rocket science and we're not idiots.

And we realize any software or system is a learning curve.

But this is really just a return to an older system, with a modern twist.

 

[GhostHost1000]

It’s confusing right now because no one’s used it, give it a week and all our questions will be answered, another week after that and we’ll all know the tips and tricks to maximize the system.

Fastpass was confusing… the first time we did it.
Fastpass+ was confusing… the first time we did it.
Making ADRs was confusing… the first time we did it.
The dining plan was confusing… the first time we did it.
The virtual queue was confusing… the first time we did it.

WDW has been confusing for a decade, we just forgot because after the first trip we knew how it worked. The same will be true with G+ and ILL.

I think it’s safe to say things keep getting more confusing though

 

[MisterPenguin]

At least we're not racing across Epcot to grab a paper Lightning Lane.

 

[Jeff4272]

I think it’s safe to say things keep getting more confusing though

I guess my point is:

what’s easier, get a pass that lets you on every ride, at any time and you can use it as much as you want, including multiple times on any ride for free with a qualified hotel

or

Genie, genie+, ias, BGs, park pass reservations

They could have made it way more user friendly

 

[VaderTron]

If there are more G+ users who want to ride SDD than there are SDD LLs available, there is no rule Disney could possibly implement that can prevent some people from missing out.

For some reason people here seem to forget that customer experience is no longer the driver for decisions. It's maximizing revenue and squeezing every dollar from every guest they possibly can.

Why do people think Disney will limit the number of LL reservations so the standby line remains somewhat reasonable? This is one of the reasons for 7am reservations. That way from the very start of the day standby lines will be greatly inflated. As guests begin using Genie to check wait times and suggestions for what to ride they will see inflated wait times. A box will pop up stating that the current wait time of (insert ridiculous line length for 10am) for Jungle Cruise is the shortest projected time for the day and suggest you ride it now. Why wouldn't they then tack on, "Or, purchase Genie+ and book a LL for it for 11am".

While not likely to happen at rollout or until full crowds return, what this new system is designed to do is make LL the main line of use. Standby lines will become like the standby airline ticket. Everyone else is buying the more expensive "guaranteed to ride" ticket. IF....IF we still have room for you we will let you on.

Since you can only book a ride once a day with Genie+ it's likely the LL lines will reduce in volume later in the day. However, that means those guests will be using the standby lines to reride later. Those who think they can wait out the LL lines to shorten will then experience increased bodies in standby.

I personally feel that Disney will do whatever it takes to squeeze and pressure as many non-Genie+ purchasers into caving and buying after they already are at the park. Additionally, after experiencing long waits they may hope it will drive people to buy Genie+ for the remainder of their park days.

 

[pdude81]

For some reason people here seem to forget that customer experience is no longer the driver for decisions. It's maximizing revenue and squeezing every dollar from every guest they possibly can.

Why do people think Disney will limit the number of LL reservations so the standby line remains somewhat reasonable? This is one of the reasons for 7am reservations. That way from the very start of the day standby lines will be greatly inflated. As guests begin using Genie to check wait times and suggestions for what to ride they will see inflated wait times. A box will pop up stating that the current wait time of (insert ridiculous line length for 10am) for Jungle Cruise is the shortest projected time for the day and suggest you ride it now. Why wouldn't they then tack on, "Or, purchase Genie+ and book a LL for it for 11am".

While not likely to happen at rollout or until full crowds return, what this new system is designed to do is make LL the main line of use. Standby lines will become like the standby airline ticket. Everyone else is buying the more expensive "guaranteed to ride" ticket. IF....IF we still have room for you we will let you on.

Since you can only book a ride once a day with Genie+ it's likely the LL lines will reduce in volume later in the day. However, that means those guests will be using the standby lines to reride later. Those who think they can wait out the LL lines to shorten will then experience increased bodies in standby.

I personally feel that Disney will do whatever it takes to squeeze and pressure as many non-Genie+ purchasers into caving and buying after they already are at the park. Additionally, after experiencing long waits they may hope it will drive people to buy Genie+ for the remainder of their park days.

There is no reason to think they'd go beyond the 80-20 merge for LL to standby, so there is a limit based on hours as there always would have been. The difference here is that for G+ LL if the ride is down they can stop giving people passes to it rather than have them already given and stacking the LL queue in other attratcions. Here the times would increase quicker on other attractions but not spike and make standby intolerable.

Also, typically people just leave the park later in the day so I wouldn't expect a huge chunk sticking around just for re-rides later in the day and make standby longer than they were early on. That would be a big change to guest behavior that we'd have to see to believe.

 

[VaderTron]

There is no reason to think they'd go beyond the 80-20 merge for LL to standby, so there is a limit based on hours as there always would have been. The difference here is that for G+ LL if the ride is down they can stop giving people passes to it rather than have them already given and stacking the LL queue in other attratcions. Here the times would increase quicker on other attractions but not spike and make standby intolerable.

Also, typically people just leave the park later in the day so I wouldn't expect a huge chunk sticking around just for re-rides later in the day and make standby longer than they were early on. That would be a big change to guest behavior that we'd have to see to believe.

However, if you have to wait till the end of the day to have a reasonable standby line for rides most people are not going to just sit on a park bench (wait...do they still have those?) for 6 hours till the majority of guests leave to get in line. The point is that 10am-3pm is going to be designed to have intolerable wait times in standby so more people buy Genie+ after arriving at the park.

 

[monothingie]

It’s confusing right now because no one’s used it, give it a week and all our questions will be answered, another week after that and we’ll all know the tips and tricks to maximize the system.

Fastpass was confusing… the first time we did it.
Fastpass+ was confusing… the first time we did it.
Making ADRs was confusing… the first time we did it.
The dining plan was confusing… the first time we did it.
The virtual queue was confusing… the first time we did it.

WDW has been confusing for a decade, we just forgot because after the first trip we knew how it worked. The same will be true with G+ and ILL.

I think it’s safe to say things keep getting more confusing though

Why can't going somewhere on vacation be stress-free and not require a call to technical support?

 

[G00fyDad]

Why can't going somewhere on vacation be stress-free and not require a call to technical support?

Hawaii!!

 

[VaderTron]

There is no reason to think they'd go beyond the 80-20 merge for LL to standby,

I believe this is where your thinking is much different than mine. There is every reason to believe they will. FP was free for all parkgoers. So, there was no monetary benefit to herding more and more people into that cowpen. It assisted Disney with advanced planning of approximately how many guests would visit for the day so they could plan CM usage. However, now that it MAKES THEM MORE MONEY I see no reason not to pressure guests customers into buying it once in the park.

Again, I forsee this happening over time, not immediately. But don't think that isn't their goal: to get 80%+ of customers each day to buy Genie+.

 

[Chi84]

I believe this is where your thinking is much different than mine. There is every reason to believe they will. FP was free for all parkgoers. So, there was no monetary benefit to herding more and more people into that cowpen. It assisted Disney with advanced planning of approximately how many guests would visit for the day so they could plan CM usage. However, now that it MAKES THEM MORE MONEY I see no reason not to pressure guests customers into buying it once in the park.

Again, I forsee this happening over time, not immediately. But don't think that isn't their goal: to get 80%+ of customers each day to buy Genie+.

Do you really believe that Disney has no interest whatsoever in providing a good customer experience for its guests?

 

[VaderTron]

Do you really believe that Disney has no interest whatsoever in providing a good customer experience for its guests?

Not before making money. They have made that abundantly clear.