Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[CaptainAmerica]

The difference is that Uni knows it can’t rely on IPs as the main draw.

I'm sorry is this a joke? Universal parks are quite literally 100% branded IP. They've never come up with a single solitary idea of their own. Of all the pro-Universal cases you could make, this one ain't it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

They were announced. Then Delta hit. Then people started cancelling. Keep in mind that at the beginning of the summer everyone was optimistic that this was over.

I would say it has more to do with genie$+ than it does with covid. The parks will be miserable unless you pay up for the extras.

You guys are both wrong. It's not Genie and it's not COVID. Demand is strong. This is a supply issue (i.e. labor).

 

[UNCgolf]

I'm sorry is this a joke? Universal parks are quite literally 100% branded IP. They've never come up with a single solitary idea of their own. Of all the pro-Universal cases you could make, this one ain't it.

I think he was trying to argue that people aren't going to Universal because of the IP. I think that's true in some cases -- the IP is almost irrelevant on rides like the Incredible Hulk and the Velocicoaster. They're not attracting a bunch of Marvel and Jurassic Park fans; they're attracting people that want to ride big roller coasters.

It's certainly not true on the HP rides/area, though.

 

[disneygeek90]

I'm sorry is this a joke? Universal parks are quite literally 100% branded IP. They've never come up with a single solitary idea of their own. Of all the pro-Universal cases you could make, this one ain't it.

I enjoy universal and literally the only attraction I can think of that’s non IP related is the now closed Lost Continent attraction

 

[UNCgolf]

I enjoy universal and literally the only attraction I can think of that’s non IP related is the now closed Lost Continent attraction

Rip Ride Rockit and Poseidon's Fury are the only two I can think of off the top of my head; the others have all closed. I do think there's a difference between a ride being based on IP and the IP being the actual draw, though. With a ride like Frozen Ever After, the IP is basically the whole draw. If it was the same ride with generic figures and no Frozen songs, it would have minimal waits. I think Universal has a lot of IP based rides where the IP is not the draw, either because the IP is mostly irrelevant to the ride (like the examples I mentioned above) or because the IP is older and it's likely that a bunch of guests have never seen the actual movie(s) -- Revenge of the Mummy comes to mind there. But it also has areas/rides where the IP is very much the main draw, like basically everything related to Harry Potter.

 

[homerdance]

You guys are both wrong. It's not Genie and it's not COVID. Demand is strong. This is a supply issue (i.e. labor).

This is the g$+ thread though, not the covid.

I guess I look at it like if they really wanted to get employees, they could. Pay is one way, bonuses are another, or they could bring back some of the part time work they cut years past, improve benefits (including main gates) that they slowly whittled away, and keep the folks they have working happy.

No matter, this is poor management that has caused this these false starts.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This is the g$+ thread though, not the covid.

I guess I look at it like if they really wanted to get employees, they could. Pay is one way, bonuses are another, or they could bring back some of the part time work they cut years past, improve benefits (including main gates) that they slowly whittled away, and keep the folks they have working happy.

No matter, this is poor management that has caused this these false starts.

Do you have any idea how many Mexicans, Norwegians, Chinese, Germans, Italians, Japanese, Moroccans, French, Brits, Canadians, Africans, Indians, and Haitians usually work at Walt Disney World?

I don't blame *any* business for being unable to find staff when the federal government won't allow huge chunks of their labor force to even enter the country.

 

[disneygeek90]

Rip Ride Rockit and Poseidon's Fury are the only two I can think of off the top of my head; the others have all closed. I do think there's a difference between a ride being based on IP and the IP being the actual draw, though. With a ride like Frozen Ever After, the IP is basically the whole draw. If it was the same ride with generic figures and no Frozen songs, it would have minimal waits. I think Universal has a lot of IP based rides where the IP is not the draw, either because the IP is mostly irrelevant to the ride (like the examples I mentioned above) or because the IP is older and it's likely that a bunch of guests have never seen the actual movie(s) -- Revenge of the Mummy comes to mind there. But it also has areas/rides where the IP is very much the main draw, like basically everything related to Harry Potter.

Agree. Even MiB isn’t a huge IP draw at this time. It’s mostly for a fun shooting game and had minimal waits as is.

 

[UNCgolf]

Agree. Even MiB isn’t a huge IP draw at this time. It’s mostly for a fun shooting game and had minimal waits as is.

E.T. is another; I'd guess the vast majority of guests under the age of 30 (or maybe even 40) have never seen it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Rip Ride Rockit and Poseidon's Fury are the only two I can think of off the top of my head; the others have all closed. I do think there's a difference between a ride being based on IP and the IP being the actual draw, though. With a ride like Frozen Ever After, the IP is basically the whole draw. If it was the same ride with generic figures and no Frozen songs, it would have minimal waits. I think Universal has a lot of IP based rides where the IP is not the draw, either because the IP is mostly irrelevant to the ride (like the examples I mentioned above) or because the IP is older and it's likely that a bunch of guests have never seen the actual movie(s) -- Revenge of the Mummy comes to mind there. But it also has areas/rides where the IP is very much the main draw, like basically everything related to Harry Potter.

Harry Potter is THE draw for the entirety of UOR.

Frozen is the #4 ride in the #4 theme park at WDW. Nobody goes to WDW for Frozen. They go for Space, Splash, and Thunder.

 

[disneygeek90]

E.T. is another; I'd guess the vast majority of guests under the age of 30 (or maybe even 40) have never seen it.

For anecdotal proof I’m 30, I’ve seen it a couple times but not in the last 10+ years. I still love the attraction for being an old school dark ride.

 

[UNCgolf]

Harry Potter is THE draw for the entirety of UOR.

Frozen is the #4 ride in the #4 theme park at WDW. Nobody goes to WDW for Frozen. They go for Space, Splash, and Thunder.

Frozen is probably the #1 ride at EPCOT, or at least it was the last couple of times I was there. It had the longest waits and nothing else was even close -- the wait was 30-45 minutes longer than for Test Track or Soarin'. Ratatouille will probably surpass it now, though, as the new thing.

I also think you're way off base with your last sentence. People who have been going to Disney for years go for those rides, but they are not big draws for any new visitors and probably haven't been for 20+ years, even though the rides you mentioned (along with Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Spaceship Earth, etc.) are among the best rides Disney offers.

While I was specifically talking about rides and not overall visits, I still think you're slightly off there. HP is definitely the biggest draw, but there are a ton of people going to UOR for Velocicoaster now and the IP is really not a factor for that ride.

 

[UNCgolf]

For anecdotal proof I’m 30, I’ve seen it a couple times but not in the last 10+ years. I still love the attraction for being an old school dark ride.

I'm 37, and while I have seen it, it was probably 25+ years ago. I also love the ride, though.

 

[homerdance]

Do you have any idea how many Mexicans, Norwegians, Chinese, Germans, Italians, Japanese, Moroccans, French, Brits, Canadians, Africans, Indians, and Haitians usually work at Walt Disney World?

I don't blame *any* business for being unable to find staff when the federal government won't allow huge chunks of their labor force to even enter the country.

Yeah, a few thousand. While not insignificant it’s not the only reason. If bookings/demand was there they would be opening it. The fact Disney hasn’t came out with more details around genie tells you they are aiming at a moving target. No date announcement. No ride lists on what is included. No price points for ll$$. No clarity on what will be Vq only vs standby vs pay to ride.

If someone is dropping that kind of investment I think it’s very safe to say that g$+ is driving away bookings.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

While I was specifically talking about rides and not overall visits, I still think you're slightly off there. HP is definitely the biggest draw, but there are a ton of people going to UOR for Velocicoaster now and the IP is really not a factor.

Now we're really starting to contradict ourselves. Velocicoaster is an ugly piece of crap hunk of steel and if Disney built one, people would be rioting in the streets about the sight lines. It is not a triumph of design and creativity.

 

[UNCgolf]

Now we're really starting to contradict ourselves. Velocicoaster is an ugly piece of crap hunk of steel and if Disney built one, people would be rioting in the streets about the sight lines.

Huh? I don't get your point here.

I don't want anything remotely like Velocicoaster anywhere near a Disney park. But the discussion was about the use of IP as a draw, and it's really not a factor in Velocicoaster's popularity.

 

[homerdance]

Frozen is probably the #1 ride at EPCOT, or at least it was the last couple of times I was there. It had the longest waits and nothing else was even close -- the wait was 30-45 minutes longer than for Test Track or Soarin'. Ratatouille will probably surpass it now, though, as the new thing.

I also think you're way off base with your last sentence. People who have been going to Disney for years go for those rides, but they are not big draws for any new visitors and probably haven't been for 20+ years, even though the rides you mentioned (along with Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Spaceship Earth, etc.) are among the best rides Disney offers.

While I was specifically talking about rides and not overall visits, I still think you're slightly off there. HP is definitely the biggest draw, but there are a ton of people going to UOR for Velocicoaster now and the IP is really not a factor for that ride.

Ride waits is not the same thing as best rides. Not even the m same as most popular. Soarin and test track have as much better capacity then frozen

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Huh? I don't get your point here.

I don't want anything remotely like Velocicoaster anywhere near Disney. But the discussion was about the use of IP as a draw, and it's really not a factor in Velocicoaster's popularity.

The argument I responded to was "Universal doesn't rely on IP, they rely on quality and creativity."

Velocicoaster is not evidence in support of this claim.

 

[UNCgolf]

Ride waits is not the same thing as best rides. Not even the m same as most popular. Soarin and test track have as much better capacity then frozen

Who said anything about best?

I think Frozen Ever After is among the worst rides at EPCOT (and at WDW overall), but that's not relevant to what we were discussing.

 

[UNCgolf]

The argument I responded to was "Universal doesn't rely on IP, they rely on quality and creativity."

Velocicoaster is not evidence in support of this claim.

All I read was the quote saying that Universal couldn't rely entirely on IP, and I think that's true for a lot of their current attractions outside of Harry Potter. They need to build rides people enjoy to get them to come back because the IP alone isn't going to get people through the gates (again, outside of HP -- which is a huge portion of their audience, as you said). The Super Nintendo area at Epic Universe will be a giant IP draw as well.

While I agree that Velocicoaster isn't creative, there are huge swathes of people who would tell you Velocicoaster is one of the best rides in the world. I would not be one of them (I have zero interest in it), but my personal preference doesn't really matter -- there are only a handful of rides I actually like at Universal anyways so I'm clearly not their target audience.