Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[rio]

Universal starts at $110 per day for one park. They are pretty close to Disney's price.

And Disney is so expensive for one simple reason- there's so much demand to go and the parks are so crowded. It's called the law of supply and demand- when there is a lot of demand prices go up. They also have the largest parks that can hold more people.

Disney's Genie+ is also far and away the cheapest of any "skip the line" program at any park, with even the cheapest Six Flags flash pass starting out at $45/ day/ person. I know they aren't the same thing, but when you consider the crowds, the demand, and the broken system this has been long overdue from Disney.

Like I said when it releases if they break it I'll be the first to slam it. But the biggest gripe I see right now is "it's not free" and I don't see why it should be when it isn't anywhere else.

They're also putting brand new and headliner attractions behind the Lightning Lane if you don't get lucky in the morning Boarding Group lottery, which you also have to wake up for. You cannot guarantee that you even have the CHANCE to ride a brand the new ride you came to visit for and base your schedule around that chance, but you may increase your odds if you pay up. Not even Six Flags operates this way with their Flashpass. That's what's different.

I'm not counting Six Flags's skycoasters, go karts, or similar rides. Those were always upcharges, and not what they advertise to the general public when putting out advertisements on "why I should visit Six Flags".

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Universal starts at $110 per day for one park. They are pretty close to Disney's price.

And Disney is so expensive for one simple reason- there's so much demand to go and the parks are so crowded. It's called the law of supply and demand- when there is a lot of demand prices go up. They also have the largest parks that can hold more people.

Disney's Genie+ is also far and away the cheapest of any "skip the line" program at any park, with even the cheapest Six Flags flash pass starting out at $45/ day/ person. I know they aren't the same thing, but when you consider the crowds, the demand, and the broken system this has been long overdue from Disney.

Like I said when it releases if they break it I'll be the first to slam it. But the biggest gripe I see right now is "it's not free" and I don't see why it should be when it isn't anywhere else.

When you can book a "deluxe" at Universal for the same cost of a moderate at WDW and get their Express Pass included, that's a huge savings over booking deluxe at WDW and buying Genie+ and Lightning Lane for all the attractions that have it...especially if you are a family.

 

[Andrew M]

Universal starts at $110 per day for one park. They are pretty close to Disney's price.

And Disney is so expensive for one simple reason- there's so much demand to go and the parks are so crowded. It's called the law of supply and demand- when there is a lot of demand prices go up. They also have the largest parks that can hold more people.

Disney's Genie+ is also far and away the cheapest of any "skip the line" program at any park, with even the cheapest Six Flags flash pass starting out at $45/ day/ person. I know they aren't the same thing, but when you consider the crowds, the demand, and the broken system this has been long overdue from Disney.

Like I said when it releases if they break it I'll be the first to slam it. But the biggest gripe I see right now is "it's not free" and I don't see why it should be when it isn't anywhere else.

While it was technically free, it was billed as a perk of the ever-increasing park admission. Ticket prices and hotel rates have increased over 25% since FP+ was introduced in 2014. Alot of people, myself included, justified the raised prices with what was included in a hotel package: Free resort and theme park parking, free magic bands, free airport shuttle, free Fastpasses and an exclusive advanced booking window & free extra magic hours every day of the week.

Now almost every 'free' perk has been or is about to be taken away, yet the ticket and hotel prices do not change to reflect that. That's my biggest problem with this, everything that was previously included and added 'value' to a Disney vacation has been taken away. Yes other parks do it, but Universal isn't charging $750 for one night in a standard room at their fanciest hotel, and they actually throw in the express pass for free when you stay there.

 

[GimpYancIent]

That is a symptom of the cost problem. You need to get your return on your investment and if you are spending too much then you need to hype it more to try and recover those costs.

So stop making poor investments! Poor choices are being made! Bottom line Poor Judgement.

 

[SteveAZee]

Over/under on WDW genie+ at $20/d…
6 months

"Oh no, no one's using Genie+, we'll need to raise the price to meet our financial goals!"
"Oh no, everyone's using Genie+, we'll need to raise the price to keep the LL shorter!"
"Oh no, our first pricing for Genie+ seemed to be perfectly dead on, but I wonder what would happen if we raise the price?"

 

[rkleinlein]

The parks are now so lacking in capacity that even something small ends up inducing too much demand.

Yes, lack of capacity is, I think, the heart of the problem. And it cannot be magically solved by a Genie, no matter how complicated or state of the art any crowd-control system is.

If lines are too long at attractions, you build can build more attractions. Disney has done this, but the problem is that the parks (with possible exception of MK) had so few attractions to begin with, that even adding 2-4 new attractions doesn't solve the problem. Especially if those new attractions are blockbusters that everyone who walks through the gates wants to ride, but there's nowhere near enough capacity to accommodate everyone. The Haunted Mansion, built over 50 years ago when Disney had a fraction of today's attendance, has an hourly capacity of 2,400 riders. Rise of the Resistance only has an hourly capacity of 1,300 to 1,700 riders. Rather than building high-demand attractions that can actually meet--or even come close to meeting--demand, Disney has decided instead to charge for access to high-demand attractions. One wonders if limited capacity at new blockbuster attractions was the plan all along.

And in theory, virtual queues/fast passes free up time for people to do other things besides wait in lines, but moving people out of queues means putting them somewhere else and there's a shortage of capacity everywhere else. Sit down restaurants are already full. Spending time in a shop or getting an ice cream while waiting for your fast pass time is not going to be pleasant if all the shops and quick service restaurants are now overcrowded with people who would otherwise be waiting in line. Cuts in staffing make this even worse.

 

[Jeff4272]

Most people understood that free FP was going away. I think the problem it that paid Genie+ coupled with the other changes really created way more problems that what it solved. Why is it so complicated and confusing? So I can ride some rides by BG, other by paying per ride, others by standby, others by paid return times........

1) Why didnt Disney offer something that was simple like an all inclusive (or semi inclusive) like an express pass? Offer resort guests a paid all inclusive option
2) At least Epcot and AK (and maybe HS) likely dont have enough rides for Genie+..........
3) IF constituted like MaxPass was (and it seems that was the template), it really hurts people that dont go to the parks early...........add in the fact that non resort guests lost any option to rope drop and that puts a major premium on getting there early
4) why make people wake up so early to book your first Genie+ ride?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Over/under on WDW genie+ at $20/d…
6 months

Easiest under ever. Over/under on $30 is more of a sweat. Or Over/under on variable date-based pricing like Universal.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Most people understood that free FP was going away. I think the problem it that paid Genie+ coupled with the other changes really created way more problems that what it solved. Why is it so complicated and confusing? So I can ride some rides by BG, other by paying per ride, others by standby, others by paid return times........

1) Why didnt Disney offer something that was simple like an all inclusive (or semi inclusive) like an express pass? Offer resort guests a paid all inclusive option
2) At least Epcot and AK (and maybe HS) likely dont have enough rides for Genie+..........
3) IF constituted like MaxPass was (and it seems that was the template), it really hurts people that dont go to the parks early...........add in the fact that non resort guests lost any option to rope drop and that puts a major premium on getting there early
4) why make people wake up so early to book your first Genie+ ride?

1) Disney has a lot of resort rooms and a lot of park guests on any given day. An unlimited pass would impact standby times too much I think. When I've gone to Universal Orlando I've always found the standby times tolerable, even with some people having that unlimited express access. Assuming Disney sells a lot of Genie+ they really have to schedule return times. What works at Universal won't necesscarily work at Disney.

2) Perhaps many guests will realize this and Genie+ won't be as popular at Epcot or AK. FastPass works best at parks with a sold number of attractions, i.e. Magic Kingdom, and especially so on moderately busy days.

3) I imagine Disney wants people to get to the parks early. The earlier we get there the more we feel we got value at the end of the day. Especially with the increased focus on After Hours events, getting people through the gates early means guests don't view those events negatively. If I arrive at noon and have to leave at 8:00 maybe I'm bitter because I see they've sold the park a second time for an event starting at 8:30. If I arrive at 9:00 I got my 11 hours in, got on every attraction, and am content.

4) It's not super guest friendly. Personally, I don't have an issue waking up at 7 AM when at WDW. I get up by then for work anyway. I can always book rides at 7:00 and then get ready at a leisurely pace and not worry so much about arriving for rope drop.

 

[Jeff4272]

Easiest under ever. Over/under on $30 is more of a sweat. Or Over/under on variable date-based pricing like Universal.

If im going to use it, i want it more expensive so it wont drain availability

1) Disney has a lot of resort rooms and a lot of park guests on any given day. An unlimited pass would impact standby times too much I think. When I've gone to Universal Orlando I've always found the standby times tolerable, even with some people having that unlimited express access. Assuming Disney sells a lot of Genie+ they really have to schedule return times. What works at Universal won't necesscarily work at Disney.

2) Perhaps many guests will realize this and Genie+ won't be as popular at Epcot or AK. FastPass works best at parks with a sold number of attractions, i.e. Magic Kingdom, and especially so on moderately busy days.

3) I imagine Disney wants people to get to the parks early. The earlier we get there the more we feel we got value at the end of the day. Especially with the increased focus on After Hours events, getting people through the gates early means guests don't view those events negatively. If I arrive at noon and have to leave at 8:00 maybe I'm bitter because I see they've sold the park a second time for an event starting at 8:30. If I arrive at 9:00 I got my 11 hours in, got on every attraction, and am content.

4) It's not super guest friendly. Personally, I don't have an issue waking up at 7 AM when at WDW. I get up by then for work anyway. I can always book rides at 7:00 and then get ready at a leisurely pace and not worry so much about arriving for rope drop.

I understand but they definitely could have simplified it while having the same parameters.

1) Offer resort guests 3, anytime/all inclusive FP's for $100 per person per day.........Not everyone would buy it and those that did have the ability to do what they want, when they want
2) Price Genie+ to include all rides to day guests
3) i dont have the exact numbers but i do know MK averaged about 60k guests per day in 2019........how many of that 60k entered the parks before 10am? I would bet 20%? maybe less? why penalize 80% of your guests?

 

[John park hopper]

If im going to use it, i want it more expensive so it wont drain availability

I understand but they definitely could have simplified it while having the same parameters.

1) Offer resort guests 3, anytime/all inclusive FP's for $100 per person per day.........Not everyone would buy it and those that did have the ability to do what they want, when they want
2) Price Genie+ to include all rides to day guests
3) i dont have the exact numbers but i do know MK averaged about 60k guests per day in 2019........how many of that 60k entered the parks before 10am? I would bet 20%? maybe less? why penalize 80% of your guests?

Give it a little time Disney will jack upper the price ----they always do

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

If im going to use it, i want it more expensive so it wont drain availability

I understand but they definitely could have simplified it while having the same parameters.

1) Offer resort guests 3, anytime/all inclusive FP's for $100 per person per day.........Not everyone would buy it and those that did have the ability to do what they want, when they want
2) Price Genie+ to include all rides to day guests
3) i dont have the exact numbers but i do know MK averaged about 60k guests per day in 2019........how many of that 60k entered the parks before 10am? I would bet 20%? maybe less? why penalize 80% of your guests?

Getting to the parks early has always been beneficial. Low crowds at rope drop and first crack at FastPasses has always been a benefit for the early risers.

I don't see it as penalizing late arrivals. The later you arrive the less you can do. This has always been the case.

You're suggesting $100 for 3 FastPasses? I don't see many people paying that.

What does pricing Genie+ to include all rides mean? An Express Pass type service?

 

[Jeff4272]

Getting to the parks early has always been beneficial. Low crowds at rope drop and first crack at FastPasses has always been a benefit for the early risers.

I don't see it as penalizing late arrivals. The later you arrive the less you can do. This has always been the case.

You're suggesting $100 for 3 FastPasses? I don't see many people paying that.

What does pricing Genie+ to include all rides mean? An Express Pass type service?

Well I know club level and 3br grand villas were offered $50 per person for 3 additional FP with no tier restrictions (in addition to the 3 you got for free) and that program was very successful (and might have been a test/precursor for paid FP) so i don't think $100 is that far out of the realm, especially if it's any ride at any time without any pre planning

Late arrivals are penalized because you could reserve 3 FP regardless of time you arrived under old system

Pricing Genie+ to include all rides means charge maybe $25 or $35 per person per day and dont exclude any rides

 

[Patcheslee]

While it was technically free, it was billed as a perk of the ever-increasing park admission. Ticket prices and hotel rates have increased over 25% since FP+ was introduced in 2014. Alot of people, myself included, justified the raised prices with what was included in a hotel package: Free resort and theme park parking, free magic bands, free airport shuttle, free Fastpasses and an exclusive advanced booking window & free extra magic hours every day of the week.

Now almost every 'free' perk has been or is about to be taken away, yet the ticket and hotel prices do not change to reflect that. That's my biggest problem with this, everything that was previously included and added 'value' to a Disney vacation has been taken away. Yes other parks do it, but Universal isn't charging $750 for one night in a standard room at their fanciest hotel, and they actually throw in the express pass for free when you stay there.

The biggest deciding factor when we first decided to come to Disney, for us, was the earlier access to FP and TS bookings and the Evening magic hours. After staying at Poly last visit, while it's a nice resort, we missed the privacy feel Caribbean gave with it being so spread out. I don't see us spending more on a Deluxe again just to be able to go the hours we enjoy. Just looking at AP price comparison, and the fact Disney has chose to limit the lower 2 tiers to Florida residents only it takes much more to break even per day than a Uni pass.
I didn't even pay $750/night at Hard Rock for a kids suite, and that one was huge.

On other things, I know there are less ride to justify Genie+ at other parks. I wonder if they intend to include some shows like the old FL. While most shows aren’t a must do, I could see them or M&G included just to bring perceived value.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Well I know club level and 3br grand villas were offered $50 per person for 3 additional FP with no tier restrictions (in addition to the 3 you got for free) and that program was very successful (and might have been a test/precursor for paid FP) so i don't think $100 is that far out of the realm, especially if it's any ride at any time without any pre planning

Late arrivals are penalized because you could reserve 3 FP regardless of time you arrived under old system

Pricing Genie+ to include all rides means charge maybe $25 or $35 per person per day and dont exclude any rides

Under the old system early arrivals could pre-book their FastPasses for 9:00, 10:00, and 11:00 as an example, and then get more as the day progressed. Late arrivals would have gotten less under the old system as well as they might book for 11:00 onward.

If you arrive at a theme park later in the day you're going to do less. That's not a penalty so much as a consequence. Penalty implies some sort of punishment.

 

[Jeff4272]

Under the old system early arrivals could pre-book their FastPasses for 9:00, 10:00, and 11:00 as an example, and then get more as the day progressed. Late arrivals would have gotten less under the old system as well as they might book for 11:00 onward.

If you arrive at a theme park later in the day you're going to do less. That's not a penalty so much as a consequence. Penalty implies some sort of punishment.

But, you were guaranteed 3 minimum under old system, and 3 good ones (as a resort guest)....Under new system, might not get any

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

But, you were guaranteed 3 minimum under old system, and 3 good ones (as a resort guest)....Under new system, might not get any

With the old tiers system it was often 1 good attraction and two fillers.

FP availability should be better with the new system, because less people will be using it. I imagine it will be more likely you can still get good attractions even if arriving after rope drop. This all remains to be seen of course.

Letting everyone book their initial two passes starting the evening before would be a reasonable improvement.

 

[Jeff4272]

With the old tiers system it was often 1 good attraction and two fillers.

FP availability should be better with the new system, because less people will be using it. I imagine it will be more likely you can still get good attractions even if arriving after rope drop. This all remains to be seen of course.

Letting everyone book their initial two passes starting the evening before would be a reasonable improvement.

Well in AK, i would get FOP, Everest and Safari.....Not sure if there's anything else you'd want?

In Epcot, id get TT, Spaceship earth and Mission Space, standby for Frozen and Soarin

in HS pre GE, I'd get SDD, ToT and Rockin Roller Coaster.......

and in MK there were no Tiers.....


So Id say those were pretty good wouldnt you?

Now if i go to parks at 3pm like ive done for 10+ years, theres a chance I get none of those

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Well in AK, i would get FOP, Everest and Safari.....Not sure if there's anything else you'd want?

In Epcot, id get TT, Spaceship earth and Mission Space, standby for Frozen and Soarin

in HS pre GE, I'd get SDD, ToT and Rockin Roller Coaster.......

and in MK there were no Tiers.....


So Id say those were pretty good wouldnt you?

Now if i go to parks at 3pm like ive done for 10+ years, theres a chance I get none of those

I recall not being able to choose ToT and RnRC but my memory could be faulty.

At Epcot there wasn't really a need for a FP for SE or MS in my experience, so basically one headliner.

I think this new system will be better, for those paying.

If you go to the parks at 3:00 you can still have two selections, even if you didn't wake up at 7:00 on the dot. Two attractions with no tier limitations doesn't strike me as worse than three attractions with limitations. It's probably a break even scenario for the smaller parks.

 

[matt9112]

It was billed as a marquee attraction. Is it?

So wasn't toy story land....they bill anything as a marquee...or is frozen ever after some amazing ride and im just wrong?