Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[matt9112]

So stop making poor investments! Poor choices are being made! Bottom line Poor Judgement.

Yes but wall street wont care or look into that until revenues decline...so if Disney can still print money even while investing amazingly poorly...

 

[matt9112]

I recall not being able to choose ToT and RnRC but my memory could be faulty.

At Epcot there wasn't really a need for a FP for SE or MS in my experience, so basically one headliner.

I think this new system will be better, for those paying.

If you go to the parks at 3:00 you can still have two selections, even if you didn't wake up at 7:00 on the dot. Two attractions with no tier limitations doesn't strike me as worse than three attractions with limitations. It's probably a break even scenario for the smaller parks.

Im pretty sure you could do TOT and RNRC. Since like it or not the tiering was mostly capacity based....hence why MK had none. But its been years since i have gone now. Womp womp.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Unfortunately it’s worse because you cannot schedule/plan in advance. (Others might argue, but value is subjective)

Where did you get the beer and hot dog for 20.00 at Disney? That’s a bargain

 

[Patcheslee]

I recall not being able to choose ToT and RnRC but my memory could be faulty.

At Epcot there wasn't really a need for a FP for SE or MS in my experience, so basically one headliner.

I think this new system will be better, for those paying.

If you go to the parks at 3:00 you can still have two selections, even if you didn't wake up at 7:00 on the dot. Two attractions with no tier limitations doesn't strike me as worse than three attractions with limitations. It's probably a break even scenario for the smaller parks.

There is, in a way, tier limitations because some attractions will be the Individual ones.

 

[Patcheslee]

Will the AR lenses require purchasing Photopass to work in addition to the Genie+? Or is it expected to work without?

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Oh, one other side note: I do find it interesting how upset people are over the fact that Disney is now going to charge an additional fee for something that every other park and chain has had additional charges for years now. Six Flags, Cedar Fair, Busch, Herchend, and Universal ALL charge for theirs. None of them offer it for free. I'm not sure why we would expect the most popular and crowded parks in the world to be any different.

Mostly I agree with your post, but one key difference here is that if I stay at a Universal deluxe- I get FP for almost every ride with no limits, so I almost don't really think about it as a fee. I mean Portofino with an AP discount and club level was going for $344/night earlier this month. (non-CL was only $70 less.) On the same dates, nearby Homewood suites/Residence Inn were going for about $160/night. (all 3 include breakfast.)

With 4 people that works out to about $184/night, or $46 per person per day.

For $46 you got unlimited water/non-alcohol drinks, evening appetizers/desserts and unlimited Express Pass.

If WDW offered something similar (GF at $350/night w/ EP), I'd be all over it. I know, forum members have said many times that it wouldn't work at WDW, but the way EP is structured, I almost forget that I have paid for it at all, and it takes no mental energy to use it.

I agree I'll wait and see on this, but a key difference is now I'm going to ask myself, "Is it worth paying $15 to get a 7DMT FP?" and every other ride that has LL. In practice, I'll likely just skip 7DMT. If FP hadn't previously been free, then the new system would also be less annoying. FP has also long been overly convoluted. It was free, but convoluted. I not only decide to buy it, but I also have to use a phone to maybe get a time that works for me?

Remember when WDW used to proudly advertise that ALL WDW park tickets were Park Hoppers that NEVER expired? I do. It was practically a slogan and a promise, "Our tickets will always be a cut above the rest, because WDW is a cut above the rest."

We expect WDW to be better because that is what they told us they were.

Oh, and WDW's deluxe hotels? They start at $435 - $500/night for non-CL. Soon to be closer to $900 come October.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, lack of capacity is, I think, the heart of the problem. And it cannot be magically solved by a Genie, no matter how complicated or state of the art any crowd-control system is.

If lines are too long at attractions, you build can build more attractions. Disney has done this, but the problem is that the parks (with possible exception of MK) had so few attractions to begin with, that even adding 2-4 new attractions doesn't solve the problem. Especially if those new attractions are blockbusters that everyone who walks through the gates wants to ride, but there's nowhere near enough capacity to accommodate everyone. The Haunted Mansion, built over 50 years ago when Disney had a fraction of today's attendance, has an hourly capacity of 2,400 riders. Rise of the Resistance only has an hourly capacity of 1,300 to 1,700 riders. Rather than building high-demand attractions that can actually meet--or even come close to meeting--demand, Disney has decided instead to charge for access to high-demand attractions. One wonders if limited capacity at new blockbuster attractions was the plan all along.

They’ve dug themselves so far into a hole I don’t know how someone can justify digging out. It would require huge investments over years knowing that there would be little to no attributable return. You wouldn’t have people saying “I booked a vacation just to see the new C-Ticket.” Instead we have billions being spent to remove capacity at Epcot.

This is all made worse by the ever increasing costs for Disney to build anything. If instead of focusing on NextGen and now Genie, Disney had committed themselves to solving their root problem of the Imagineering premium and providing adequate capacity, we could have something like 10 additional attractions in all of the non-Magic Kingdom parks for less money. The root problems of cost and capacity would be addressed. Guests would be more satisfied with their day, and more satisfied guests buy more and come back more frequently.

 

[GimpYancIent]

They’ve dug themselves so far into a hole I don’t know how someone can justify digging out. It would require huge investments over years knowing that there would be little to no attributable return. You wouldn’t have people saying “I booked a vacation just to see the new C-Ticket.” Instead we have billions being spent to remove capacity at Epcot.

This is all made worse by the ever increasing costs for Disney to build anything. If instead of focusing on NextGen and now Genie, Disney had committed themselves to solving their root problem of the Imagineering premium and providing adequate capacity, we could have something like 10 additional attractions in all of the non-Magic Kingdom parks for less money. The root problems of cost and capacity would be addressed. Guests would be more satisfied with their day, and more satisfied guests buy more and come back more frequently.

I believe everything has a first step, in this case, the #1 rule of holes applies; If one finds themselves in a hole STOP DIGGING!

 

[DisneyDodo]

They’ve dug themselves so far into a hole I don’t know how someone can justify digging out. It would require huge investments over years knowing that there would be little to no attributable return. You wouldn’t have people saying “I booked a vacation just to see the new C-Ticket.” Instead we have billions being spent to remove capacity at Epcot.

This is all made worse by the ever increasing costs for Disney to build anything. If instead of focusing on NextGen and now Genie, Disney had committed themselves to solving their root problem of the Imagineering premium and providing adequate capacity, we could have something like 10 additional attractions in all of the non-Magic Kingdom parks for less money. The root problems of cost and capacity would be addressed. Guests would be more satisfied with their day, and more satisfied guests buy more and come back more frequently.

What's the actual reason that everything Disney builds costs so much more than it should? Disney obviously wants to minimize spending, so it's certainly not just benevolence.

 

[Rickcat96]

is it me or does everything that they are doing AP prices/cutbacks, Genie, entertainment, park reservations, underwhelming start of the 50th (and the list goes on) look like what they did to hinder crowds like when SGE was opening? it appears they want to have empty parks and resorts

 

[Ripken10]

is it me or does everything that they are doing AP prices/cutbacks, Genie, entertainment, park reservations, underwhelming start of the 50th (and the list goes on) look like what they did to hinder crowds like when SGE was opening? it appears they want to have empty parks and resorts

It's funny you think this will lead to empty parks and resorts.

 

[Rickcat96]

It's funny you think this will lead to empty parks and resorts.

I do, too many better options, with more value, 10 minutes away.

 

[pdude81]

I do, too many better options, with more value, 10 minutes away.

Store brand cookies are a better value and they are in the same aisle, FWIW.

 

[Rickcat96]

Store brand cookies are a better value and they are in the same aisle, FWIW.

I don't vacation in a cookie aisle.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I do, too many better options, with more value, 10 minutes away.

I just had a discussion on this matter over in the Genie petition thread. A lot of people still feel the Disney iconography makes WDW the only valid vacation choice and reject Uni because they don’t like the brands or because of the outdated notion that it’s a thrill park - or simply because rejecting Uni is what Disney fans are supposed to do.

WDW will still fill up, but the brand is being weakened.

Personally, I’m extremely happy that Uni has stepped up its game in almost exact inverse proportion to WDWs decline. WDWs path would have hit me much harder without an alternative. Comcast is just as greedy and impersonal as Disney, of course, but thankfully, at the moment, they’re smarter.

 

[DisneyCane]

Store brand cookies are a better value and they are in the same aisle, FWIW.

They don't typically taste as good (with some exceptions). UO can be just as much fun and just as enjoyable at WDW with the improvements at UO in the last 10-15 years and the decline/stagnation at WDW in the same time period.

 

[btuftee]

Instead we have billions being spent to remove capacity at Epcot.

What am I missing here? Unless you're referring to the fact that GOTG is replacing Universe of Energy, and will surely have a lower hourly throughput? What else is Epcot losing?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I just had a discussion on this matter over in the Genie petition thread. A lot of people still feel the Disney iconography makes WDW the only valid vacation choice and reject Uni because they don’t like the brands or because of the outdated notion that it’s a thrill park - or simply because rejecting Uni is what Disney fans are supposed to do.

WDW will still fill up, but the brand is being weakened.

Personally, I’m extremely happy that Uni has stepped up its game in almost exact inverse proportion to WDWs decline. WDWs path would have hit me much harder without an alternative. Comcast is just as greedy and impersonal as Disney, of course, but thankfully, at the moment, they’re smarter.

The big difference between Comcast and Disney is that Comcast doesn't have a history of going above and beyond...Disney does.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

is it me or does everything that they are doing AP prices/cutbacks, Genie, entertainment, park reservations, underwhelming start of the 50th (and the list goes on) look like what they did to hinder crowds like when SGE was opening? it appears they want to have empty parks and resorts

Disney has stated they want to control crowds to maintain a good guest experience. That's why annual passes are pricey and now come with a reservation system.

What this means specifically in terms of numbers and to what degree Disney will implement this, remains to be seen.

 

[pdude81]

They don't typically taste as good (with some exceptions). UO can be just as much fun and just as enjoyable at WDW with the improvements at UO in the last 10-15 years and the decline/stagnation at WDW in the same time period.

Substantially similar but not the same is really my point. You can pay half the price for 80% of the experience if you like. Some will and some won't. But the same brands and experiences persist because people want what their nostalgia and they are willing to pay through the nose for it. I have Uni APs also now after not going there for 20 years just for this reason. Went to both places a few weeks ago and had a great time, but Uni is not the same thing.

Also I think the percentage of guests that stop going to WDW over pricing differences changes will be small, but that remains to be seen. I'd love to be wrong on that and not have to pay any more upcharges to get on rides in a reasonable timeframe.