Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

matt9112

Well-Known Member
Yes there are some unanswered questions but I do think people need to stop assuming the worst possible scenario. It really isn’t in Disney’s best interest to ruin your park days despite all of the theories to the contrary.

Maxpass was very popular at DL even though we were paying for something that used fo be free. Why was it popular? Because it really did make the days easier and more convenient. Similarly, I would expect this system to provide an enhanced experience for the price.

You’re not going to make a reservation for a ride 10 hours away without the ability to make a new selection in the meantime. Just not going to happen. Being stuck on one reservation all day would be a complete waste of money and you’d never buy Genie+ again. Not what Disney wants. They want you hooked on it and to buy it every time you visit, just like DL guests were conditioned to do with MaxPass.

Max pass was an up charge. To a free base system. There is no free option here. I actually think the free "itinerary " version soley exsists to manipulate people into that same feeling. Max pass made a free service more convenient. This is a paid service....period full stop. Coupled with the ever growing list of ride lotterys im sorry if i think the worst. Not alot of confidence as of late.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
As I listened to the guys video for the first time ever I just do not care. What I do not care about is WDW at all, I care more about what some other are thinking and the only reason I even post here.

Right or wrong the FP thing still has me so less interested in going in my mind I think WDW?,Whatever. The passion is gone and I am a person that bought a home 6 min from Disney so my wife and I could "Disney" for a majority of our retirement. Now I feel like I don't even care about WDW as that home sits empty and we both work 70 to 90 hours a week to pay for two homes every month for another 641 days 36 hours and some odd minutes until move do date.
The past year has wreaked havoc on everything. Hopefully your retirement will coincide with a "phoenix rising" esque time of renewal, including at Disney.
 

Bea123

Member
As I listened to the guys video for the first time ever I just do not care. What I do not care about is WDW at all, I care more about what some other are thinking and the only reason I even post here.

Right or wrong the FP thing still has me so less interested in going in my mind I think WDW?,Whatever. The passion is gone and I am a person that bought a home 6 min from Disney so my wife and I could "Disney" for a majority of our retirement. Now I feel like I don't even care about WDW as that home sits empty and we both work 70 to 90 hours a week to pay for two homes every month for another 641 days 36 hours and some odd minutes until our move date.

This is my live animated count down clock background on my computer

View attachment 583140

I was mad about FP for a few days(maybe weeks), now I just literally don't care. Disney did this, I did not all of a sudden lose interest out of thin air. I am not sure what this means, unique thoughts for humans are few and far between and it is said that at any given moment anything a person thinks about 10 thousand other humans have that same thought. My lack of passion is even during a time some great new lands and attraction are being introduced. If you told me a few years ago that Guardians of Galaxy, Tron, Pandora(one of my all time favs), Star Wars land, Remy's Ratatouille Adventure and more would be open or soon to be opening at WDW and I wouldn't even give a care about it , well that would of been sacrilege.

Even with those new attractions somehow what Disney has done ripped the passion right from me, again I didn't do it. I am not being dramatic, I am just saying if I feel this way I wonder how many others do and if it will even dent what Disney does in the future. Somehow I don't think it will. Maybe the passion will come back, but right now who knows, next week I may be over this forum too and find I do not even have the interest in Disney to make the daily check of this site like I have since 2016, let alone post.
Firstly, congratulations on your soon-to-be retirement. It sounds like you both deserve it. Florida is a fantastic place and even outside of Disney I am sure you will have a great time.

I completely understand what you are saying about not caring anymore. I am from the UK and I can't afford a second home in Florida (but it is something I have dreamed about for a long time). I would have bought a property just so I could visit Disney (but no more). It actually makes me sad that I am not in love with Disney anymore and I don't feel like passionately singing the virtues of Disney to anyone that cares to listen. It is not just FP it is everything that Disney is doing (or not doing) that is so off Brand. Their disdain for guests, the way they treat employees (from park employees to stars like Scarlett Johansson), and the 'magic' touches that are being eroded from the parks.

For me, it's like being in a bad relationship. You know your partner is cheating but you hide your head in the sand because you don't want to see the truth, you tell yourself you are doing it for the kids or that they will change and it will be like it was when you first got married. But eventually, you can't deny their bad behaviour and when you finally wake up and the bubble has been burst you can't look at them the same, with wide-eyed devotion, because you can see them for the lying, selfish, money-grabbing scum bag that they really are!

I feel sad because I want to fall in love with Disney again (shucks I loved everything about this great Brand for years, and I devoted so much of my time and energy to it). But the truth is Disney isn't the Brand I fell in love with anymore. It could be. But it would need to change. It would have to start caring about me (guests/customers) again and stop being selfish and profit-orientated. The Disney Walt created, whilst not perfect I am sure, had its heart in the right place. Somewhere down the line the values and mission statement stopped being a paragon to strive for and to live by and started being just words on a marketing campaign.

However.....Call me an old romantic but I can still see glimmers of the Disney we knew and loved. Maybe it's not too late. Yes perhaps it is behaving badly enough to fall from grace and we will be angry with it for a while. But at 97 it has learned a trick or two and, despite how a lot of us are feeling at the moment, Disney is bigger than the incumbent millionaire management team that seems hell-bent on destroying the Brand in favor of short-term cash grabs.

I really hope that Disney comes out the other side of this and goes back to its core Brand values. I can't pretend I feel the same way about it anymore. But I will keep a small candle burning.....Just in case.
 

rkleinlein

Well-Known Member
This whole thing is so confusing. Could Disney have made it any more confusing???
I agree completely. This has gotten way too complicated. It's a Frankenstein's monster mashup of fastpass, maxpass, lotteries, congestion pricing, and old fashioned pay per ride tickets. And everything is subject a confusing array of rules, timetables, limits and exceptions, some of which overlap, none of which are the same across the board for all attractions and all guests. Lightning Lane, virtual queues, boarding groups, tiers, Fastpass, Fastpass plus, Max Pass, Disney Genie, Disney Genie plus. . . am I forgetting anything?

Why not keep things simple? Why not just go back to paper (or digital) fastpasses distributed at the ride entrance? Even with an up charge. What are the reasons not to do that? Or a Universal style express pass?
 

jpinkc

Well-Known Member
So does anyone think we will get anything NEW out of Disney this week or will they wait til the end of September, so everybody who is going for the Anniversary is on the hook and cant back out??
 

disneyflush

Well-Known Member
It is strange how so many are not looking for clarity on these questions. They are the most important aspects.
Over the years it has become apparent that a large percentage of people on these boards do not have a breaking point on price when it comes to visiting the parks. There is no amount where @DisFanatic2TheExtreme from Nebraska won't book their trip with their 2 kids every other year. $5k is now $7k? Thats unfortunate but what can you do. A lifetime DVC contract signed 13 years ago when prices and park visits were still on the simpler side? Thats unfortunate but what can you do. The questions you reference only matter if the answers hold some type of sway. The price-sensitive people dropped out about 5 years ago. Most of these details are just pebbles to step over on the way up Main St to get our castle pic. And you can't really put a price on that.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
So I do wonder if maybe one good thing might come out of this whole mess of a system. Simply put, if Disney can directly monetize rides - especially new/popular rides that are in high demand - than it might actually inspire the company to be more aggressive in building new rides that can be added to the charging scheme. I mean, if they see success with charging for FoP, Rise, Cosmic Rewind, Tron, etc. then maybe some suits will be aggressive in greenlighting new in the near future to keep that going. Maybe even trying to get to three IAS rides per park. I mean, I could easily see them fast-tracking stuff like IJA, Shanghai Pirates (or some variation of that) or Mystic Manor for WDW just to have a constant flow of things to be able to charge high prices for.

Plus in theory they can't just be replacing rides since to keep Genie+ afloat, they need some rides to offer there. In fact, maybe it's possible that if a particular park lacks significant purchases of Genie+ (I'm thinking DAK here) then they might feel "we need to have more attractions there to spur sales for Genie+". That's probably a less likely scenario and pie in the sky.

The flip side cynical aspect of this is, though, that they might push through more rides with bad capacity knowing monetizing the long lines is "better" than having guests happy by being able to have many people ride. Also, there might be less motivation to build any non headliner attractions that will drive demand (e.g. Main St Theater) since they would not easily directly monetized. And WDW needs a lot of supporting attractions to beef up the parks.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So I do wonder if maybe one good thing might come out of this whole mess of a system. Simply put, if Disney can directly monetize rides - especially new/popular rides that are in high demand - than it might actually inspire the company to be more aggressive in building new rides that can be added to the charging scheme. I mean, if they see success with charging for FoP, Rise, Cosmic Rewind, Tron, etc. then maybe some suits will be aggressive in greenlighting new in the near future to keep that going. Maybe even trying to get to three IAS rides per park. I mean, I could easily see them fast-tracking stuff like IJA, Shanghai Pirates (or some variation of that) or Mystic Manor for WDW just to have a constant flow of things to be able to charge high prices for.

Plus in theory they can't just be replacing rides since to keep Genie+ afloat, they need some rides to offer there. In fact, maybe it's possible that if a particular park lacks significant purchases of Genie+ (I'm thinking DAK here) then they might feel "we need to have more attractions there to spur sales for Genie+". That's probably a less likely scenario and pie in the sky.

The flip side cynical aspect of this is, though, that they might push through more rides with bad capacity knowing monetizing the long lines is "better" than having guests happy by being able to have many people ride. Also, there might be less motivation to build any non headliner attractions that will drive demand (e.g. Main St Theater) since they would not easily directly monetized. And WDW needs a lot of supporting attractions to beef up the parks.
This would just mean accelerating the problematic vicious cycle in which Disney is already stuck. Marquee attractions induce too much demand leading to more crowding. The parks need smaller scale attractions that can provide breathing room for the people already in the parks.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
In part, seems like Genie is designed to use new, in-demand rides to incentivize WDW resort stays. My guess is that for a ride like Tron, most if not all of the IAS availability will be gobbled up by on-site guests at 7am. So depending on the IAS ride, offsite folks are either at the mercy of the virtual queue or standby. And to take it a step further, standby is further degraded by the lack of a rope drop for offsite guests. And to take it another step further, the only other option is evening extra magic hours for deluxe on-site guests only.

Don't forget about Di$ney After Hour$!
 

drizgirl

Well-Known Member
So I do wonder if maybe one good thing might come out of this whole mess of a system. Simply put, if Disney can directly monetize rides - especially new/popular rides that are in high demand - than it might actually inspire the company to be more aggressive in building new rides that can be added to the charging scheme. I mean, if they see success with charging for FoP, Rise, Cosmic Rewind, Tron, etc. then maybe some suits will be aggressive in greenlighting new in the near future to keep that going. Maybe even trying to get to three IAS rides per park. I mean, I could easily see them fast-tracking stuff like IJA, Shanghai Pirates (or some variation of that) or Mystic Manor for WDW just to have a constant flow of things to be able to charge high prices for.

Plus in theory they can't just be replacing rides since to keep Genie+ afloat, they need some rides to offer there. In fact, maybe it's possible that if a particular park lacks significant purchases of Genie+ (I'm thinking DAK here) then they might feel "we need to have more attractions there to spur sales for Genie+". That's probably a less likely scenario and pie in the sky.

The flip side cynical aspect of this is, though, that they might push through more rides with bad capacity knowing monetizing the long lines is "better" than having guests happy by being able to have many people ride. Also, there might be less motivation to build any non headliner attractions that will drive demand (e.g. Main St Theater) since they would not easily directly monetized. And WDW needs a lot of supporting attractions to beef up the parks.
Yes, they will see how profitable it is to monetize rides. But they will also realize how much higher the profit margin is when you take it all as pure profit rather than build a bunch of new stuff.

They'll be using Covid as an excuse for not adding new rides for many years to come.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Yes, they will see how profitable it is to monetize rides. But they will also realize how much higher the profit margin is when you take it all as pure profit rather than build a bunch of new stuff.

They'll be using Covid as an excuse for not adding new rides for many years to come.
I agree. We're at the point where they're going to try to squeeze every single penny they can out of every attraction and guest.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Yes, they will see how profitable it is to monetize rides. But they will also realize how much higher the profit margin is when you take it all as pure profit rather than build a bunch of new stuff.

They'll be using Covid as an excuse for not adding new rides for many years to come.
I certainly fear that. But I’m hoping that maybe the potential for ongoing direct monetizing (with more rides) plus the press from Uni with Epic Universe will inspire them to build some additional stuff in upcoming years
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
This would just mean accelerating the problematic vicious cycle in which Disney is already stuck. Marquee attractions induce too much demand leading to more crowding. The parks need smaller scale attractions that can provide breathing room for the people already in the parks.
Clearly they're not afraid to monetize (at least temporarily) non-marquee attractions as well given the plans for Ratatouille. I wouldn't be mad if more rides of a similar scope and IP profile cropped up.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
Ratatouille is a marquee ride with a commensurate scale and cost.
Then ... what do you consider a non-marquee attraction in EPCOT aside from Tres Caballeros, Imagination (mostly due to neglect), and the various theaters? I'd wager practically every attraction there would cost as much or more for the Imagineering of today.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
That’s the problem.
I guess I'm probably seeing it the wrong way, but I don't view the total sunk cost as being indicative of whether or not it's truly a headliner. Like, Living with the Land would obviously be tremendously expensive to build and I love riding it, but I'm not sure I'd consider it a marquee attraction; it's more of a backstage tour that people aren't going to queue up for over and over again unless they really need to steal a lot of cucumbers for their collection. In the same way, Ratatouille feels to me like a modern screen-heavy incarnation of a classic Fantasyland ride using a moderately popular franchise. It won't draw the repeat crowds of Frozen Ever After because, well, it doesn't have Idina Menzel belting out a power ballad, but it's a fun one-and-done that will relieve pressure elsewhere in the park after the initial sparkle wears off.
 

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