Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[donsullivan]

Well-all the talk of the data mining Disney received from magic bans, other trends etc- obviously didn't work to the favor they intended. 87% dislike ratio on youtube videos suggests otherwise. But this has been a trend where companies relay on data for X, so the use it to decide Y, but never knew how X works.

How do you know the dislike is about Genie+ and not about how the host is going on and on with nothing but negativity about something they have never used and complaining relentlessly that it's the worst thing that has ever happened and ruining the park experience, all without even catching their breath. The near breathless nature of many of these YouTube videos done by people who have barely read the limited bit of information released by Disney just to rush and be first with something they don't even understand is insanity. I saw one last week where the host was actually getting out of breath they were so worked up about it even though they admitted they hadn't even read all the materials released so far about the program. If this brings that much angst to your life it really is time to find something new to focus your time and energy on.

As I've read, watched and listened to the sometimes almost irrational complaining about this I'm reminded of the insanity that surrounded the introduction of MM+. Except now the new social media world cranks it up to 11+. The reality is, the obsessed so-called Disney fan has learned to 'optimize' their use of the old system for their personal advantage and they HATE CHANGE with every fiber of their being. They don't like the fact that they'll no longer have an advantage over those 'day guests' who don't know what they're doing. No matter what changes, there are 3 weeks of relentless complaining, no matter how inconsequential it is. When you complain about absolutely everything, it stops having real meaning.

Is this a different way of experiencing the parks from what we've had the last decade or more- yes it is. Is it a surprise that they are now charging for something that used to be included with admission- No it's not. Is this going to be the straw that breaks the camels back and nobody will visit WDW any longer- No, it isn't. The usual suspects will whine and whine and whine for weeks on end (even if they aren't going to be visiting the parks for a year) and then the dust will clear, we'll all get the opportunity to actually use it and develop real perspectives based on experience. Everything I keep reading now is from those who feel compelled to think for days to develop the most complex edge case and show how that person is going to be disenfranchised by this system. But nobody has actually used the tool and associated service.

Guess what, if this is the horrible nightmare that some of you are calling it out to be, and nobody wants to pay for it, and people stop going to WDW because of it then Disney will change. But the reality is, this distortion field so many here live in that their opinions represent the entire world is simply a false reality. If attendance drops as a result of this Disney will make changes, but history has taught us that the so called 'fans' don't actually change their behavior, they just like to have something to complain about.

 

[pdude81]

I think the magic bands are being deprioritized because phones have the same technology now and and also allow you to do your dynamic scheduling on the device. The promise of the magic band being the only thing you needed in the park is no more. It doesn't hurt to keep them around, but Disney gets far more information from your phone in their apps than they did with the MB. Play Disney Parks is just another digital offering to grab more of your data, track where you are, and keep you busy in line so you forget that the same line would have taken half as long to get through 5 years ago.

 

[Roy G. Dis]

Well-all the talk of the data mining Disney received from magic bans, other trends etc- obviously didn't work to the favor they intended. 87% dislike ratio on youtube videos suggests otherwise. But this has been a trend where companies relay on data for X, so the use it to decide Y, but never knew how X works.

The type of people who watch Disney theme park news videos on YouTube are not the entire audience for Genie+ and I'd argue they aren't even the target audience.

 

[pdude81]

If attendance drops as a result of this Disney will make changes, but history has taught us that the so called 'fans' don't actually change their behavior, they just like to have something to complain about.

I agree with the rest of your post, but I think they are fine if attendance drops off slightly as long as the revenue increases greatly (and it will). That being said, I don't actually expect attendance to drop so it might not matter.

 

[Casper Gutman]

How do you know the dislike is about Genie+ and not about how the host is going on and on with nothing but negativity about something they have never used and complaining relentlessly that it's the worst thing that has ever happened and ruining the park experience, all without even catching their breath. The near breathless nature of many of these YouTube videos done by people who have barely read the limited bit of information released by Disney just to rush and be first with something they don't even understand is insanity. I saw one last week where the host was actually getting out of breath they were so worked up about it even though they admitted they hadn't even read all the materials released so far about the program. If this brings that much angst to your life it really is time to find something new to focus your time and energy on.

As I've read, watched and listened to the sometimes almost irrational complaining about this I'm reminded of the insanity that surrounded the introduction of MM+. Except now the new social media world cranks it up to 11+. The reality is, the obsessed so-called Disney fan has learned to 'optimize' their use of the old system for their personal advantage and they HATE CHANGE with every fiber of their being. They don't like the fact that they'll no longer have an advantage over those 'day guests' who don't know what they're doing. No matter what changes, there are 3 weeks of relentless complaining, no matter how inconsequential it is. When you complain about absolutely everything, it stops having real meaning.

Is this a different way of experiencing the parks from what we've had the last decade or more- yes it is. Is it a surprise that they are now charging for something that used to be included with admission- No it's not. Is this going to be the straw that breaks the camels back and nobody will visit WDW any longer- No, it isn't. The usual suspects will whine and whine and whine for weeks on end (even if they aren't going to be visiting the parks for a year) and then the dust will clear, we'll all get the opportunity to actually use it and develop real perspectives based on experience. Everything I keep reading now is from those who feel compelled to think for days to develop the most complex edge case and show how that person is going to be disenfranchised by this system. But nobody has actually used the tool and associated service.

Guess what, if this is the horrible nightmare that some of you are calling it out to be, and nobody wants to pay for it, and people stop going to WDW because of it then Disney will change. But the reality is, this distortion field so many here live in that their opinions represent the entire world is simply a false reality. If attendance drops as a result of this Disney will make changes, but history has taught us that the so called 'fans' don't actually change their behavior, they just like to have something to complain about.

Wait... are you attacking whiners because they won't go to the park and experience the system or because they'll keep going to the park and not act on their whines? Your impassioned defense of the giant price-gouging entertainment conglomerate seems unfocused.

Oh, and the information that has been released so far is scanty because Disney is being intentionally deceptive.

 

[donsullivan]

I agree with the rest of your post, but I think they are fine if attendance drops off slightly as long as the revenue increases greatly (and it will). That being said, I don't actually expect attendance to drop so it might not matter.

You may be right, but attendance is the reference that most people think of in this context, even though the new metric of success in operating the parks is revenue per guest visit. Disney fully understands that this model may push some over the edge and they'll not return and they are kind okay with that. If the revenue per guest can be increased their net revenue stays the same or increases and since they have fewer guests in the parks, their labor costs can go down thus improving margins.

Guests have been complaining for years there were too many people in the parks and just increasing ticket prices didn't seem to do anything to mitigate that. We'll have to see if this strategy combined with reservations to manage capacity will achieve the original goal of reducing crowding in the parks but still increasing revenue. If you want fewer people in the parks, each one has to spend a little more for the financial model work.

 

[Casper Gutman]

You may be right, but attendance is the reference that most people think of in this context, even though the new metric of success in operating the parks is revenue per guest visit. Disney fully understands that this model may push some over the edge and they'll not return and they are kind okay with that. If the revenue per guest can be increased their net revenue stays the same or increases and since they have fewer guests in the parks, their labor costs can go down thus improving margins.

Guests have been complaining for years there were too many people in the parks and just increasing ticket prices didn't seem to do anything to mitigate that. We'll have to see if this strategy combined with reservations to manage capacity will achieve the original goal of reducing crowding in the parks but still increasing revenue. If you want fewer people in the parks, each one has to spend a little more for the financial model work.

So you don't think increasing capacity might help? Price gouging is the only solution to guest complaints about overcrowding?

 

[dmw]

You may be right, but attendance is the reference that most people think of in this context, even though the new metric of success in operating the parks is revenue per guest visit. Disney fully understands that this model may push some over the edge and they'll not return and they are kind okay with that. If the revenue per guest can be increased their net revenue stays the same or increases and since they have fewer guests in the parks, their labor costs can go down thus improving margins.

Guests have been complaining for years there were too many people in the parks and just increasing ticket prices didn't seem to do anything to mitigate that. We'll have to see if this strategy combined with reservations to manage capacity will achieve the original goal of reducing crowding in the parks but still increasing revenue. If you want fewer people in the parks, each one has to spend a little more for the financial model work.

This is going to be an interesting business case to study several years from now. One could argue that Disney has been priced too low because of ever-increasing crowds (Econ 101 Supply and Demand). But, during the 2021 and 2022 seasons was the attendance at WDW higher than usual because of international - and to a lesser extend, domestic - travel restrictions? And, five years from now how will the changes introduced by Disney in 2021 be viewed - success or failure? No way to know now, but it sure will be an interesting study.

 

[John park hopper]

Due to the pandemic people have not taken vacations now that things are opening up people are vacationing again. What happens when those saved funds are exhausted--will attendance drop off at WDW. The country is in a state of inflation and it is getting worse what impact will that have on people vacationing at WDW. Didn't the recession of 2008-09 have an affect on Disney revenue?

 

[Rickcat96]

So which social media platform is the pulse on who like and dislikes what?

 

[GimpYancIent]

You may be right, but attendance is the reference that most people think of in this context, even though the new metric of success in operating the parks is revenue per guest visit. Disney fully understands that this model may push some over the edge and they'll not return and they are kind okay with that. If the revenue per guest can be increased their net revenue stays the same or increases and since they have fewer guests in the parks, their labor costs can go down thus improving margins.

Guests have been complaining for years there were too many people in the parks and just increasing ticket prices didn't seem to do anything to mitigate that. We'll have to see if this strategy combined with reservations to manage capacity will achieve the original goal of reducing crowding in the parks but still increasing revenue. If you want fewer people in the parks, each one has to spend a little more for the financial model work.

Yes success! Higher cost per guest = fewer guests + fewer visits to the parks = less need for staff to cater to the guests = less operating costs + less maintenance requirements - less merch sales - resort occupancy - of an experience for the few remaining guests. Yes a nice, steady, slow march to eventual failure and oblivion. In the interest of making money and business is business the International Entertainment Conglomerate that Disney is has steadily moved away from the key component to their formula for success "Entertainment". What was referred to as Disney Magic was an intangible that drew the guests and created the hard core fans, now, guests are moving to other entertainment venues and the hard core fans are becoming disenchanted plus new fans are not being created. So success! One hell of a business model.

 

[donsullivan]

This is going to be an interesting business case to study several years from now. One could argue that Disney has been priced too low because of ever-increasing crowds (Econ 101 Supply and Demand). But, during the 2021 and 2022 seasons was the attendance at WDW higher than usual because of international - and to a lesser extend, domestic - travel restrictions? And, five years from now how will the changes introduced by Disney in 2021 be viewed - success or failure? No way to know now, but it sure will be an interesting study.

Indeed it’s a fascinating exercise in product management and pricing strategies. They are changing both at the same time which often makes it more challenging to isolate cause and effect later. I would imagine there are lots of other levers they can pull to adjust things as well. And the reality is, this is the perfect time to switch the model. They are coming off 2 down years and need to have ways to recoup the massive losses. They can relaunch with this new model to boost their way back to full recovery.

 

[MrPromey]

Well-all the talk of the data mining Disney received from magic bans, other trends etc- obviously didn't work to the favor they intended. 87% dislike ratio on youtube videos suggests otherwise. But this has been a trend where companies relay on data for X, so the use it to decide Y, but never knew how X works.

Dude, you miss the point of this kind of data mining. It's not about making guests happy. It's about making Disney money.

Those two sound like they'd be related (and over the long-term, probably are) but when demand is outstripping supply and their concern isn't about getting people in the gates, they can focus on maximizing profit until they start seeing those "turnstile clicks" drop to a level where they are no longer at the peak of the average guest cost/profit ratio.

A whole bunch of people down-voted a video. Big whoop.

Maybe someone will start an online petition, too. I hear those are really effective at getting businesses to change what they do.

We'll see what attendance looks like for 2022. If its low, expect to see a more guest-centric Disney in Florida.

If not, they'll continue to push our buttons until they hit equilibrium.

Don't get me wrong - I'm glad people are being vocal and not defending which is a wecome change compared to people's reactions to a lot of other things they've done but unless that turns into a lasting negative trend in guest spending, they're not going to care much.

 

[rawisericho]

Dude, you miss the point of this kind of data mining. It's not about making guests happy. It's about making Disney money.

Those two sound like they'd be related (and over the long-term, probably are) but when demand is outstripping supply and their concern isn't about getting people in the gates, they can focus on maximizing profit until they start seeing those "turnstile clicks" drop to a level where they are no longer at the peak of the average guest cost/profit ratio.

A whole bunch of people down-voted a video. Big whoop.

Maybe someone will start an online petition, too. I hear those are really effective at getting businesses to change what they do.

We'll see what attendance look like for 2022. If its low, expect to see a more guest-centric Disney in Florida.

If not, they'll continue to push our buttons until they can't any further.

Don't get me wrong - I'm glad people are being vocal and not defending it but unless that turns into a lasting negative trend in guest spending, they're not going to care much.

So, I don't disagree with you on the aspect of data mining. Business 101 would tell you that you're correct.

The problem is, many of us fell in love with Disney because it wasn't ALWAYS business 101. The reason we're essentially a cult of people that provide free advertising and good will to this company is because of that. Eventually if you whittle that down, you'll be just like other companies, subject to the same expectations and challenges that they deal with.

 

[SamusAranX]

It didn’t take long for people to pivot and compare rhe express pass to Disney “ration fairy”….because it’s still got the embarrassing characteristics of fp+ where ride rationing/inadequate capacity was on everyone’s phones to see in real time.

express pass unlimited is just that: unlimited on the big dogs. We had to slow down (universal 3D blackout syndrome)…but could have done 15+ rides per day without much trouble.

try that at wdw since about 2002.

and the “regular”’express pass gives you 16 rides at studios and 18 at IOA.

so your “genie” can give you a maximum of the a,b,c rides and at most 2 of the D,E rides per day for what we assume to be in the $65 dollar range (variable)

rest are the Standby lines which will probably be higher waits and the virtual queue mental jigsaw puzzles….

They are two different systems for two different spots and realities…but if the standard, praetorian “Disney does it best” is gonna be the speech here…back it up. We know the realities of their crowd management and their capabilities. You can’t invent ride seats you don’t have

This.

You can't point to someone else, and say "they do it too" with a straight face knowing that they actually do it better then WDW. Which ten years ago, I would have never thought I would say about UO vs WDW

 

[Rickcat96]

Dude, you miss the point of this kind of data mining. It's not about making guests happy. It's about making Disney money.

Those two sound like they'd be related (and over the long-term, probably are) but when demand is outstripping supply and their concern isn't about getting people in the gates, they can focus on maximizing profit until they start seeing those "turnstile clicks" drop to a level where they are no longer at the peak of the average guest cost/profit ratio.

A whole bunch of people down-voted a video. Big whoop.

Maybe someone will start an online petition, too. I hear those are really effective at getting businesses to change what they do.

We'll see what attendance look like for 2022. If its low, expect to see a more guest-centric Disney in Florida.

If not, they'll continue to push our buttons until they can't any further.

Don't get me wrong - I'm glad people are being vocal and not defending it but unless that turns into a lasting negative trend in guest spending, they're not going to care much.

There is a balance, to say you want to make more $, but anger the audience you wish to extract those dollars from is moot. Not sure I follow that logic. Not saying your wrong, but Image is everything to Disney, and they have had a few missteps during a bad downtime.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

There is a balance, to say you want to make more $, but anger the audience you wish to extract those dollars from is moot. Not sure I follow that logic. Not saying your wrong, but Image is everything to Disney, and they have had a few missteps during a bad downtime.

A few, yes.

One of them quite large that will leave a bad taste in people's mouths after a vacation when they view their credit card statements. Paying to ride a ride doesn't have the same long-term effect as purchasing something tangible that you can bring home with you or sharing time around the table during dinner, or even paying for photographs taken during a trip.

 

[MrPromey]

So, I don't disagree with you on the aspect of data mining. Business 101 would tell you that you're correct.

The problem is, many of us fell in love with Disney because it wasn't ALWAYS business 101. The reason we're essentially a cult of people that provide free advertising and good will to this company is because of that. Eventually if you whittle that down, you'll be just like other companies, subject to the same expectations and challenges that they deal with.

Could not agree more.

The question is, will that come to pass during the current leadership's tenure or will it be the next generation's problem?

I think it's anyone's guess, at this point.

 

[rawisericho]

Could not agree more.

The question is, will that come to pass during the current leadership's tenure or will it be the next generation's problem?

I think it's anyone's guess, at this point.

Yep, and that's my issue.

I'm a stockholder and a DVC owner. I'm willing to forgo insane growth for the short term in order for Disney to continue to be a viable brand for the next 40-50 years.

$15 a day per person is not a financial issue for me. I do pretty well, money wise, Disney vacations are not a huge expenditure for me. It's the principle, it's the breakdown of trust, it's the fact that this is not the Disney way. That's what I worry about.

 

[MrPromey]

There is a balance, to say you want to make more $, but anger the audience you wish to extract those dollars from is moot. Not sure I follow that logic. Not saying your wrong, but Image is everything to Disney, and they have had a few missteps during a bad downtime.

I whole-heatedly agree.

I just don't think current management sees it that way.

Also, I have a 9 year old who keeps asking when we're going back and no amount of discussion about loss of customer focus seems to be winning him over when I try to explain why it might be a while before we step foot there, again.

... and I know he's not going to be young forever so there's that, too. :/

He's home sick from school today with me while I'm trying to work (and waste time on a forum!) and right now is watching... Disney+

More and more, he's the exclusive audience and I'm just the wallet who has less and less personal fun there with him.*

It didn't used to be that way.


*I mean, him being happy still makes me happy but it was once a shared experience we were both excited about and before he came along, was something I enjoyed doing just for me. For a long time, he's been the only reason I've done it as these days, it just feels like an expensive and frustrating experience for me.