Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[tallica]

Don’t trust everything you read/hear. They never intentionally slow things down to create lines. Sometimes they do things that result in longer lines; reduced staffing… etc.. but the intent is not to artificially create lines

But they do inflate the posted wait times at the end of the day. This is to discourage guests from getting in lines at closing.

 

[The Mrs]

Genie will tell you to sign up for touringplans…yesterday

Isn't the poster you're replying to the guy who actually IS touringplans?
Maybe I'm wrong but I think that poster really is Len Testa.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I guess you’re unaware of “Speedy Sit”.

Add an h and you’ll understand the how occasional gastrointestinal distress will be capitalized on as well.

Occasional? Great, now Chapek will make it so that the only food sold in the parks is a chili cheese dog with an optional $9 side of Immodium.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Hell they even brought up UO and how much it cost to buy there pass system and never mentioned you could stay at the Hard Rock and get it included at a nicer Hotel than the Grand Floridian for Half the Price!!!

The part about the GF is a non sequitur.

The cost of UO's Express Pass, by upgrading from their value resort to a premium resort, costs way more than Genie+. And that's the only thing that matters for the price comparison.

That UO's premium resorts cost less than the GF doesn't matter. It's about the cost of the Genie+ v. Express Pass, and Genie+ is notably cheaper.

I'm not defending DG+, I'm just pointing out that UO's cost is not a shining light of value. You're paying an extra $200 a day for the upscale resort. Or you can stay at the value resort and buy Express pass at $90 - $120 a day per person.

 

[The Mrs]

The part about the GF is a non sequitur.

The cost of UO's Express Pass, by upgrading from their value resort to a premium resort, costs way more than Genie+. And that's the only thing that matters for the price comparison.

That UO's premium resorts cost less than the GF doesn't matter. It's about the cost of the Genie+ v. Express Pass, and Genie+ is notably cheaper.

I'm not defending DG+, I'm just pointing out that UO's cost is not a shining light of value. You're paying an extra $200 a day for the upscale resort. Or you can stay at the value resort and buy Express pass at $90 - $120 a day per person.

although, for someone who always stays in deluxe resorts, and has been considering trading a Disney trip in for a Universal trip, it absolutely does enter into the decision

 

[UNCgolf]

The part about the GF is a non sequitur.

The cost of UO's Express Pass, by upgrading from their value resort to a premium resort, costs way more than Genie+. And that's the only thing that matters for the price comparison.

That UO's premium resorts cost less than the GF doesn't matter. It's about the cost of the Genie+ v. Express Pass, and Genie+ is notably cheaper.

I'm not defending DG+, I'm just pointing out that UO's cost is not a shining light of value. You're paying an extra $200 a day for the upscale resort. Or you can stay at the value resort and buy Express pass at $90 - $120 a day per person.

I don't understand why people keep comparing them. They're very different. Saying Genie+ is cheaper or Express Pass is more expensive is meaningless because you're not paying for/getting the same thing.

It's a bit like comparing a $15 hamburger and a $50 steak. There's no point. They can both be great value or poor value.

 

[nickys]

I am confused just reading all this and trying to "get it".
I thought the 2 paid for rides were for all parks; 2 per day whatever park you want. Say you want ROHR in HS and FOP at AK for your 2 picks of the day? Is it 2 paid rides at each park, or 2 paid rides per day at any park???? I thought it was 2 only anywhere in the parks per day, but I could be wrong.
If we are confused, just imagine how the poor CM's will be having to deal with all the confused and angry guests? I feel bad for them.

You can pay the extra for 2 rides per day. They can be across all 4 parks.

It seems like you’ll be able to book both at the same time (7am for onsite guests, once you get to the parks for offsite guests).

 

[nickys]

Walk me through this scenario - I really don't understand how it's supposed to work.

I'm in Liberty Square. I have 5 attractions in my to-do list: 7DMT, Space, Splash, BTMRR, and Pirates. All of the waits are above average because it's 3 pm on New Year's Eve.

What does Genie tell me to do, and when does it want me to do it?

Genie: “OK Len, you win. Do you have any openings on your team? I’ll give you a free LL pass to 7dmt ….”

Genie: “I can see you enjoy having fun. If you head over to Tom Sawyer Island you can create many family memories. Enjoy a wild raft ride over, recreate 7dmt in the tunnels - and they’re dark just like Space. Play at being pirates and shoot at the guests riding BTMRR from the Fort.

Tomorrow will be much quieter in the park, so you can ride the actual attractions easily”.

 

[MrPromey]

this is why advanced systems don’t tell everyone the same thing. Maybe it only recommends space to 1/4 people… or it rolls it out where it does group a, waits for changes, then decides if it tells group b etc.

this is the advantage of reaching all the consumers - not just s small group.

conversely its also why small audience tools like 3rd party apps can be more uniform without ruining it for themselves… smaller audience following the same advice means you don’t shift the needle ruining your own plan.

A part of me thinks that some of why Disney is doing away with the courtesy magic bands is that they got all the data they were after with those.

Depending on how sophisticated their analytic research has been, there is a lot they could have potentially learned from having nearly all resort and AP guests walk through the parks with tracking bracelets on for half a decade.

Obviously, not all guests behave the same way and now, assuming they collected it, they know how typical ap holders behave in the park for the day vs. a resort guest. They potentially know how people likely not there with children behave vs. people with kids. Depending on just how good they've kept track, they know how guests who are annual/every-other-year vs. likely first timers behave, too - I'm sure within a pretty good margin of error.

They potentially have the ability to sort and slice data in a lot of ways that tells them a lot about their customers they didn't previously know.

If they've captured all that info, they may be comfortable with limited ability to track a party with just one person's phone now, and perhaps not worry about such info.

The question really comes down to how well they captured data and sorted it by individuals or groups.

In my line of work, I have a lot of visibility for how this is done with a network of internet ads or unrelated mobile apps to build and hone very detailed consumer profiles for the purpose of marketing. Most people would be shocked to know that many retail locations can track the ad they sent you right through to your visit to their store - even without some sort of special coupon or other voluntary thing that would help identify you. Stores like Target even track your travel through some sections in some locations without alerting you. The use of beacons has really been a game-changer and that's effectively what the relationship with Magic bands and the parks was for Disney.

I just wonder how smart Disney was about their access into our days at the parks. We never saw the promise of them rolling out live entertainment spontaneously to deal with a sudden crowd or really, any of the other things they said would be possible other than your name shoehorned into a few experiences that half the time didn't seem to work, so it's hard to say but if I had to guess, they were probably a lot more concerned with the data they were collecting for their own long-term purposes than they were for improving the guest experience so I'd imagine they grabbed and held onto a lot.

I'm sure a lot of this has informed how the app will work, though, and I doubt, as you said, they'd be dumb enough to send a few thousand people to a single attraction with low wait times because they know just as well as us (better, I'm sure) what happens when that's done and assuming they are tracking APs differently and possibly known repeat guests differently, that could be factored into the suggestions they offer - if they're smart about it, that is.

We like to think they're constantly doing dumb stuff and don't know how to do anything. I think they cheap out on things they're doing to stay in a budget and then deal with the consequences which probably results in a lot of that web page "food" for Stich but I don't think they're dumb about it.

Greedy and sometimes cheap, yes but dumb, no.

I think a lot of the time they know exactly what they're doing - it's just not what we as guests want them to be doing.

To that end, I don't think long-term guest loyalty is anything anyone in TDO or Burbank is losing sleep over although their successors some day might.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It may seem like more but its actually alot easier for thdm to staff (most of those employees are already there) vs adding hours. Furthermore its less good for the actual guest. Even if its every day at every park. The tangible benefits for a resort guest is less. Period. No if ands or buts.

Yes

IMO 30 min is barely enough time to walk from the gate to one attraction. By the time you’re done with that you might be able to get into one other line. I’m thinking more about the 2 extra hours after closing, which is now only for those staying at the deluxe resorts instead of all Disney resort guests

Yes

Extra Magic Hours were not cut. 30 minutes every day at every park is MORE than one hour in a single park, with the added benefit that it's not going to draw disproportionate crowds anywhere in particular.

No…watch it play

 

[Patcheslee]

I am confused just reading all this and trying to "get it".
I thought the 2 paid for rides were for all parks; 2 per day whatever park you want. Say you want ROHR in HS and FOP at AK for your 2 picks of the day? Is it 2 paid rides at each park, or 2 paid rides per day at any park???? I thought it was 2 only anywhere in the parks per day, but I could be wrong.
If we are confused, just imagine how the poor CM's will be having to deal with all the confused and angry guests? I feel bad for them.

Just my understanding of it is 2 paid per day no matter what park and can be different parks.
But from what I understand you also need a reservation at the same park to pick one. So essentially it is limiting you to a single park unless 2pm comes and another park is available to hop to.

 

[Patcheslee]

The part about the GF is a non sequitur.

The cost of UO's Express Pass, by upgrading from their value resort to a premium resort, costs way more than Genie+. And that's the only thing that matters for the price comparison.

That UO's premium resorts cost less than the GF doesn't matter. It's about the cost of the Genie+ v. Express Pass, and Genie+ is notably cheaper.

I'm not defending DG+, I'm just pointing out that UO's cost is not a shining light of value. You're paying an extra $200 a day for the upscale resort. Or you can stay at the value resort and buy Express pass at $90 - $120 a day per person.

The prices for Express pass go up closer to the dates at Uni. A week before we visited the prices for 3 of us to purchase Unlimited Express was actually more than the cost of the Kids suite at Hard Rock for us, and the suite could have 6, so the savings are higher for bigger families. Add in the cost of value resort it would have cost us more.
Could I have bought the Express much sooner before a visit? Sure, but being nonrefundable if we had to cancel it was a risk I wasn't willing to take.

 

[Waters Back Side]

I do not care how much money they invested in this, certain things will just not just suddenly pan out because the Genie + has the special ability.

Let it be able to reschedule a dining reservation at Be Our Guest so that you can fit in a ride that is available at the time of your reservation and then we can say that.

Just like any other trip, certain sacrifices will have to be made and guests will still have to pick and choose some things over another. They will have to sacrifice.

 

[Casper Gutman]

The part about the GF is a non sequitur.

The cost of UO's Express Pass, by upgrading from their value resort to a premium resort, costs way more than Genie+. And that's the only thing that matters for the price comparison.

That UO's premium resorts cost less than the GF doesn't matter. It's about the cost of the Genie+ v. Express Pass, and Genie+ is notably cheaper.

I'm not defending DG+, I'm just pointing out that UO's cost is not a shining light of value. You're paying an extra $200 a day for the upscale resort. Or you can stay at the value resort and buy Express pass at $90 - $120 a day per person.

Uni's pass and DG+ are wildly different, as many have pointed out. For one thing, Uni has been aggressively increasing capacity to meet demand, so the crowds are nowhere near as crushing and line-skipping is not nearly as necessary. Guests at Uni don't feel like they are being forced to pay up.

Personally, if Disney was offering a line-skipping service for something crazy - say $1000 a day or up - and forcing everyone else into standby, I'd be more supportive. Genie is a way to nickel-and-dime every single guest in a manner that seems unavoidable and that adds up dramatically over a trip. It's insidious.

 

[Waters Back Side]

Some are talking as if the Genie has all the analytical data it needs in guest preference and habits to the point where it has a built in formula to be able to determine that this family has spent x amount of dollars in headliners and purchased Genie plus every day and that the system will favor or be heavily biased to those when it comes to trying for a boarding group...make sure they get one amd save 100 some dollars to keep them coming and buying the genie. Wishful thinking I know.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Uni's pass and DG+ are wildly different, as many have pointed out. For one thing, Uni has been aggressively increasing capacity to meet demand, so the crowds are nowhere near as crushing and line-skipping is not nearly as necessary. Guests at Uni don't feel like they are being forced to pay-up.

Personally, if Disney was offering a line-skipping service for something crazy - say $1000 a day or up - and forcing everyone else into standby, I'd be more supportive. Genie is a way to nickel-and-dime every single guest in a manner that seems unavoidable and that adds up dramatically over a trip. It's insidious.

It didn’t take long for people to pivot and compare rhe express pass to Disney “ration fairy”….because it’s still got the embarrassing characteristics of fp+ where ride rationing/inadequate capacity was on everyone’s phones to see in real time.

express pass unlimited is just that: unlimited on the big dogs. We had to slow down (universal 3D blackout syndrome)…but could have done 15+ rides per day without much trouble.

try that at wdw since about 2002.

and the “regular”’express pass gives you 16 rides at studios and 18 at IOA.

so your “genie” can give you a maximum of the a,b,c rides and at most 2 of the D,E rides per day for what we assume to be in the $65 dollar range (variable)

rest are the Standby lines which will probably be higher waits and the virtual queue mental jigsaw puzzles….

They are two different systems for two different spots and realities…but if the standard, praetorian “Disney does it best” is gonna be the speech here…back it up. We know the realities of their crowd management and their capabilities. You can’t invent ride seats you don’t have

 

[Rickcat96]

Well-all the talk of the data mining Disney received from magic bans, other trends etc- obviously didn't work to the favor they intended. 87% dislike ratio on youtube videos suggests otherwise. But this has been a trend where companies relay on data for X, so the use it to decide Y, but never knew how X works.

 

[DisneyDodo]

You can’t invent ride seats you don’t have

They can, just not through an app

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They can, just not through an app

Takes 4-5 years to get that rockwork up

 

[mysto]

that doesn’t mean they intentionally built the ride with less capacity for the sake of monetizing waits. Nor does the idea of running under full capacity mean they are doing it to manipulate people. They often just are just trying to save money (be cheap).

Yea I agree. Running below capacity saves money, which if you think about it, is actually monetizing waits too.