Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[DCLcruiser]

Priorities shifted. When Pandora, Toy Story Land, and Galaxy's Edge opened, Magic Kingdom wasn't the park that needed dramatic extra magic hours. People like to conveniently forget when Animal Kingdom was staying open until 11pm many nights, or when it had extra magic hours every night for months straight, or when Hollywood Studios was opening at 7am *or earlier* for literally two years.

None of this is how it works. Genie's recommendations update on the fly and it won't suggest attractions with unusually high wait times.

EMH was a great way to suck in tourists to Park A, and allow all of the in-the-know fans to go to Park B, C, D with lower attendance/shorter lines.

Correct, Genie is designed to move bodies away from crowded rides to low wait time rides/ less crowded lands.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Disregard the preview, which is misleading. The link itself takes you to the following post, which you wrote:

”Yesssssss! If it is absolutely critical to your day in the park experience to use FP and pay a charge for that privilege, well, a guest does what a guest has to do. Otherwise the standby line is not always backed up, they do move, usually faster than projected wait times. Also magically sometimes there are no lines!”

Good catch! I was not eloquent enough obviously nor clever. Simply if guests find it sooo crucial, soooo critical, sooo absolutely essential to their park experience and existence to partake in a ride or experience at that particular moment in time in desperation paying a charge can be seen as justified by those guests. Nothing at Disney is life critical particularly now with all the experiences as diminished as they are. So no I did not contradict myself just did not elaborate enough and hey! I do not joke very well. My compliments on the catch though.

 

[DCLcruiser]

Good catch! I was not eloquent enough obviously nor clever. Simply if guests find it sooo crucial, soooo critical, sooo absolutely essential to their park experience and existence to partake in a ride or experience at that particular moment in time in desperation paying a charge can be seen as justified by those guests. Nothing at Disney is life critical particularly now with all the experiences as diminished as they are. So no I did not contradict myself just did not elaborate enough and hey! I do not joke very well. So my compliments on the catch though.

I think $15 for FP (LL) is well worth it, bc my style of going to the parks is riding as much as possible in a day. I don't go for 10 day trips to WDW. I also see the value in IAS for brand new rides that are mobbed (if rope drop didn't work that day).

Not everyone wants to pay a premium. That doesn't mean it's not worth the premium, just people want what they consider to be a great value for what they have already paid.

I get it. FP+ for free (or built into the cost of the ticket already) was a great perk (yes FP was a perk), but I'll happily pay for Genie+/IAS.

 

[LittleBuford]

Good catch! I was not eloquent enough obviously nor clever. Simply if guests find it sooo crucial, soooo critical, sooo absolutely essential to their park experience and existence to partake in a ride or experience at that particular moment in time in desperation paying a charge can be seen as justified by those guests. Nothing at Disney is life critical particularly now with all the experiences as diminished as they are. So no I did not contradict myself just did not elaborate enough and hey! I do not joke very well. So my compliments on the catch though.

Thanks for your gracious reply. I wasn’t attempting to catch you out, though! I’m just trying to understand the larger shift in tone that I’ve perceived between the two threads. The old one left me with the impression that: 1) most posters wanted a system akin to legacy FP, with minimal pre-planning; and 2) most posters, believing that FP+ caused substantially longer standby waits, wanted a system with fewer users, which necessarily means a paid system. This current thread, however, has gone in a very different direction, and there seems to be a fair amount of inconsistency between what people were saying a matter of weeks ago and what they’re saying now. “I’m happy to wait in faster-moving standby lines” has been replaced by “They’re now forcing us to pay for something we used to get for free.”

My aim isn’t to play “gotcha”, but to make sense of the shift. Perhaps one way of explaining it is that the previous consensus centred above all on a dislike of FP+, without due consideration for whether a replacement system would actually be any better.

 

[Jenny72]

I just watched "Behind the Attraction" for the Haunted Mansion (feeling nostalgic, I guess), and came across this: They explain that the designers realized how many people would want to ride it, so they decided to develop a system to get as many people through as possible. They had to scrap earlier, lower-capacity plans. What happened to that principle? I mean this as a sincere question. Did they just decide it didn't matter, or that other factors were more important, or what?

At any rate, maybe they should censor that part of the episode so people don't realize that we have to pay to fix a problem that Disney created or at least allowed to happen, a problem that they would have dealt with better 50 years ago.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I think $15 for FP (LL) is well worth it, bc my style of going to the parks is riding as much as possible in a day. I don't go for 10 day trips to WDW. I also see the value in IAS for brand new rides that are mobbed (if rope drop didn't work that day).

Not everyone wants to pay a premium. That doesn't mean it's not worth the premium, just people want what they consider to be a great value for what they have already paid.

I get it. FP+ for free (or built into the cost of the ticket already) was a great perk (yes FP was a perk), but I'll happily pay for Genie+/IAS.

By all means you enjoy. Thank you for being clear. You state your objective when you go to the parks "is riding as much as possible in a day." You will "happily pay for Genie+/IAS". I can see where Genie could help you achieve your goals thus giving you enjoyment. It is important to note that each guest or group of guests have their own desires, expectations and objectives at the parks. Also waits at different experiences / rides vary I rode Everest twice back to back / get off get back on because there was no line but within a half hour of that the line was 45 min. In short for some there can possibly be perceived value in Genie for most NO.

 

[DCLcruiser]

I just watched "Behind the Attraction" for the Haunted Mansion (feeling nostalgic, I guess), and came across this: They explain that the designers realized how many people would want to ride it, so they decided to develop a system to get as many people through as possible. They had to scrap earlier, lower-capacity plans. What happened to that principle? I mean this as a sincere question. Did they just decide it didn't matter, or that other factors were more important, or what?

At any rate, maybe they should censor that part of the episode so people don't realize that we have to pay to fix a problem that Disney created or at least allowed to happen, a problem that they would have dealt with better 50 years ago.

That episode, I watched last night, mentioned that they went from the original idea of a Walk-Thru to Omnimover to increase the through-put.

I don't know if you can create more and more exciting/engaging rides by making everything omnimover, rollover coaster or a theatre. That's been done and can be replicated anywhere.

So Disney creates FoP, etc. which are lower volume, but highly engaging to each rider.

I haven't ridden RotR, but I thought it was a UoE style vehicle, but the low through-put is the overly complicated sets? You guys tell me.

 

[DCLcruiser]

By all means you enjoy. Thank you for being clear. You state your objective when you go to the parks "is riding as much as possible in a day." You will "happily pay for Genie+/IAS". I can see where Genie could help you achieve your goals thus giving you enjoyment. It is important to note that each guest or group of guests have their own desires, expectations and objectives at the parks. Also waits at different experiences / rides vary I rode Everest twice back to back / get off get back on because there was no line but within a half hour of that the line was 45 min. In short for some there can possibly be perceived value in Genie for most NO.

I hear you. Everyone vacations differently. I make spread sheets and time it out (not WDW, but that I know exactly where to go in the parks to maximize the trip).

 

[Jenny72]

I agree that not everything can or should be an omnimover or a high-capacity boat, but we're nearly 50 years later. Can't they innovate something new after all this time? Isn't that their speciality? Double decker robovehicles? Hovering minitheaters? You can see I'm full of excellent ideas here. But I thought Disney was the expert at moving people through fast, and making that constraint work so that the attraction is still amazing. I feel like they went all-in in one area (great sets, etc.) but forgot about this other important aspect.

 

[LovePop]

I spent a long time thinking about Genie+ last night and finally figured it out. Our family of 4 will be getting the Genie+. We normally get the 10 day ticket, which costs $3000, and Genie+ will be another $600. It will be worth it for us because our family don't do most of the popular rides. We focus on rides such as Pirates, Small World, Mermaid, Buzz Lightyear, rides that don't have that big of a line. The only popular ride we like is Splash Mountain, and I know that line is short if we go at park opening. So we just have to get up early and we'll save $80. Maybe ride it twice in the morning and save $160. I don't plan to go on Avatar or Remy because I think they make me sick (never been on them). I don't like rollercoasters, so Test Track, Space Mountain are out. If the kids want to ride them, they can go on single rider.

The only real problem is RotR, a ride I wouldn't mind going on it (won't make me sick), but I have a feeling that it will cost $25 or more to get the pass, or $100+ for the family. We've never been on RotR, and my plan is to never go on it. Just pretend that ride doesn't exist. We won't talk about it, we won't look at it when we pass by. My kids are SW fans, but they aren't Sequel SW fans, and what they have never experienced will never hurt them. That way, we don't have to spend $$$$ for just one ride, which will totally hurt my feelings and ruin the experience. I also won't attempt to get its boarding group because I hear that it's very difficult, and I don't like to fail, it'll ruin my day. Also, if I get the kids hooked on that ride, they will constantly nag about it; and then if I can't get the boarding group or spend the money, we'll have to skip RotR and they will be disappointed. If I remove it from our consciousness, then no expectations, no disappointments. I also hear that even with the boarding group, RotR can often take an hour. No way am I waiting an hour. I'll let other desperate souls take our place on that ride.

I am going to get that $600 Genie+ money from cutting out all our ADRs. I will tell the family that we are never eating at Cape May or Boma or California Grill again. Fastpass is worth more than food. I will also never buy any merchandise ever again. That way, we'll never run out of money for the Genie+. (I have a feeling that Genie+ price will go up rapidly. The $15 is just the "introductory rate.")

The only problem with Genie+ is that it will make me feel like the filthy rich jerk who is using money to get ahead of the peasants. Nevermind that I am giving up my ADRs for it, it will still make me feel guilty, unlike the free fastpass. But when I feel that way, I will remind myself that this isn't my fault, it's all Disney's fault.

 

[doctornick]

Customers have always been able to get into the parks 20-30 minutes early every day, with no restriction on where you lay your head at night.

If there’s no morning extra hours yes. But once Early Entry starts in October, it will function just like morning EMH did in the past - non resort guests will be help at the gate (or rope drop) until the official opening time. Resort guests will be let in and allowed to ride 30 minutes before official opening. (Realistically they’ll be let in prior to that 30 minutes and it’s just that the rides will start at that time)

 

[LovePop]

I agree that not everything can or should be an omnimover or a high-capacity boat, but we're nearly 50 years later. Can't they innovate something new after all this time? Isn't that their speciality? Double decker robovehicles? Hovering minitheaters? You can see I'm full of excellent ideas here. But I thought Disney was the expert at moving people through fast, and making that constraint work so that the attraction is still amazing. I feel like they went all-in in one area (great sets, etc.) but forgot about this other important aspect.

Disney hasn't forgotten about making rides high capacity. They do low capacity on purpose to reduce supply, increase demand, and turn fastpasses into a direct revenue. This becomes even more important in the face of their virus loss.

 

[Muffinpants]

I spent a long time thinking about Genie+ last night and finally figured it out. Our family of 4 will be getting the Genie+. We normally get the 10 day ticket, which costs $3000, and Genie+ will be another $600. It will be worth it for us because our family don't do most of the popular rides. We focus on rides such as Pirates, Small World, Mermaid, Buzz Lightyear, rides that don't have that big of a line. The only popular ride we like is Splash Mountain, and I know that line is short if we go at park opening. So we just have to get up early and we'll save $80. Maybe ride it twice in the morning and save $160. I don't plan to go on Avatar or Remy because I think they make me sick (never been on them). I don't like rollercoasters, so Test Track, Space Mountain are out. If the kids want to ride them, they can go on single rider.

The only real problem is RotR, a ride I wouldn't mind going on it (won't make me sick), but I have a feeling that it will cost $25 or more to get the pass, or $100+ for the family. We've never been on RotR, and my plan is to never go on it. Just pretend that ride doesn't exist. We won't talk about it, we won't look at it when we pass by. My kids are SW fans, but they aren't Sequel SW fans, and what they have never experienced will never hurt them. That way, we don't have to spend $$$$ for just one ride, which will totally hurt my feelings and ruin the experience. I also won't attempt to get its boarding group because I hear that it's very difficult, and I don't like to fail, it'll ruin my day. Also, if I get the kids hooked on that ride, they will constantly nag about it; and then if I can't get the boarding group or spend the money, we'll have to skip RotR and they will be disappointed. If I remove it from our consciousness, then no expectations, no disappointments. I also hear that even with the boarding group, RotR can often take an hour. No way am I waiting an hour. I'll let other desperate souls take our place on that ride.

I am going to get that $600 Genie+ money from cutting out all our ADRs. I will tell the family that we are never eating at Cape May or Boma or California Grill again. Fastpass is worth more than food. I will also never buy any merchandise ever again. That way, we'll never run out of money for the Genie+. (I have a feeling that Genie+ price will go up rapidly. The $15 is just the "introductory rate.")

The only problem with Genie+ is that it will make me feel like the filthy rich jerk who is using money to get ahead of the peasants. Nevermind that I am giving up my ADRs for it, it will still make me feel guilty, unlike the free fastpass. But when I feel that way, I will remind myself that this isn't my fault, it's all Disney's fault.

I am super confused about your post. You say you will get it for your family but than go on rides that have normally shorter lines anyway? Which will cut out the nice meals you get normally to save money for genie that you prolly dont need. Also go to rope drop which means you also wont need genie+.

 

[sanctumsolitude]

My prediction is that Disney is going to start giving away the lightning lane individual selections as a perk to certain guests. Concierge? One day per 5 day ticket? Something like that. Pure speculation of course, but if it isn’t used much I could see them offering it up to the highest paying guests.

 

[DCLcruiser]

I spent a long time thinking about Genie+ last night and finally figured it out. Our family of 4 will be getting the Genie+. We normally get the 10 day ticket, which costs $3000, and Genie+ will be another $600. It will be worth it for us because our family don't do most of the popular rides. We focus on rides such as Pirates, Small World, Mermaid, Buzz Lightyear, rides that don't have that big of a line. The only popular ride we like is Splash Mountain, and I know that line is short if we go at park opening. So we just have to get up early and we'll save $80. Maybe ride it twice in the morning and save $160. I don't plan to go on Avatar or Remy because I think they make me sick (never been on them). I don't like rollercoasters, so Test Track, Space Mountain are out. If the kids want to ride them, they can go on single rider.

The only real problem is RotR, a ride I wouldn't mind going on it (won't make me sick), but I have a feeling that it will cost $25 or more to get the pass, or $100+ for the family. We've never been on RotR, and my plan is to never go on it. Just pretend that ride doesn't exist. We won't talk about it, we won't look at it when we pass by. My kids are SW fans, but they aren't Sequel SW fans, and what they have never experienced will never hurt them. That way, we don't have to spend $$$$ for just one ride, which will totally hurt my feelings and ruin the experience. I also won't attempt to get its boarding group because I hear that it's very difficult, and I don't like to fail, it'll ruin my day. Also, if I get the kids hooked on that ride, they will constantly nag about it; and then if I can't get the boarding group or spend the money, we'll have to skip RotR and they will be disappointed. If I remove it from our consciousness, then no expectations, no disappointments. I also hear that even with the boarding group, RotR can often take an hour. No way am I waiting an hour. I'll let other desperate souls take our place on that ride.

I am going to get that $600 Genie+ money from cutting out all our ADRs. I will tell the family that we are never eating at Cape May or Boma or California Grill again. Fastpass is worth more than food. I will also never buy any merchandise ever again. That way, we'll never run out of money for the Genie+. (I have a feeling that Genie+ price will go up rapidly. The $15 is just the "introductory rate.")

The only problem with Genie+ is that it will make me feel like the filthy rich jerk who is using money to get ahead of the peasants. Nevermind that I am giving up my ADRs for it, it will still make me feel guilty, unlike the free fastpass. But when I feel that way, I will remind myself that this isn't my fault, it's all Disney's fault.

As @Muffinpants said (wow that's quite the Handle), why would you pay for Genie+ if you think the rides that you prefer have short lines? If that is the case, save the $$$ and just wait in line.

You can also buy an IAS for RotR without also getting Genie+.

Now, you can pay for meals, merchandise and make your kids happy by going on RotR.

In regards to feeling like a rich jerk...it's $15pp/day. Tons of people will pay that. Hell, people with financial problems buy DVC, APs, etc. WDW is the land of over-extending yourself. So, I don't think you will look like Cleopatra being carried through the queue to cut the peasants in line.

 

[flynnibus]

They do low capacity on purpose to reduce supply, increase demand, and turn fastpasses into a direct revenue

Why always the nefarious thoughts?

Ever consider when someone says they want trackless vehicles you can't make them the size of pirate's boats? Or simply they aren't ambitious enough to build double versions of things when their costs are already 4x what they were when they did do those things?

Building capacity is expensive... even more so in the high tech attractions guests demand these days. Disney is sacrificing capacity for design these days... not manipulating it to create future scarcity. That's just fan-angst talking...

 

[Chi84]

In regards to feeling like a rich jerk...it's $15pp/day. So, I don't think you will look like Cleopatra being carried through the queue to cut the peasants in line.

This is hilarious . . . also true.

 

[Muffinpants]

Why always the nefarious thoughts?

Ever consider when someone says they want trackless vehicles you can't make them the size of pirate's boats? Or simply they aren't ambitious enough to build double versions of things when their costs are already 4x what they were when they did do those things?

Building capacity is expensive... even more so in the high tech attractions guests demand these days. Disney is sacrificing capacity for design these days... not manipulating it to create future scarcity. That's just fan-angst talking...

I mean cast members have said in the past that disney will slow things down to make lines longer...

 

[DCLcruiser]

I mean cast members have said in the past that disney will slow things down to make lines longer...

A few thoughts:

1) Long lines HERE help to move people over THERE. That's to help even out the distribution of guests in the park.

2) This is also probably like a nightclub. If the club doesn't have a line at all, it doesn't look popular and people go elsewhere. People like to feel excluded for a moment just before the ecstasy of being let through the velvet rope. That's psychology. So, especially when you can see the wait-time online, having FoP at 4 hours makes people think, WOW, that must be an amazing ride!

3) I don't know if they slow things down to increase (what used to be free) FP usage.

 

[doctornick]

Why always the nefarious thoughts?

Ever consider when someone says they want trackless vehicles you can't make them the size of pirate's boats? Or simply they aren't ambitious enough to build double versions of things when their costs are already 4x what they were when they did do those things?

Building capacity is expensive... even more so in the high tech attractions guests demand these days. Disney is sacrificing capacity for design these days... not manipulating it to create future scarcity. That's just fan-angst talking...

And it wasn’t long ago that they added additional vehicles/track for Dumbo, TSMM, and Soarin’ - if they wanted to do artificial scarcity, that wouldn’t have happened.