Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[bmr1591]

this logic may seem to flow right to some, but it is not actually true. The repetitive getting in lines over and over is what can't be done by many. So spacing out the time an individual is in line will help them handle whatever that individual may be dealing with.

Now I agree that there is way too much abuse, the idea that if someone can stand in one stand by line it must disqualify them is just not realistic. While I am sure there is some individual that require DAS that can't stand in any stand by lines, for most (that really need it) it would be the continued repetitive act of being in lines that would not be good for them.

And I totally get that, but the ignorant side of me says they can take breaks between rides like a lot of other guests do. Grab food, watch a show, sit and enjoy the park. No one forces anyone to go back to back to back in long lines. Know your limits.

 

[nickys]

This is such a cop out. The vast majority of visitors to the parks who use DAS either had to drive a long way or fly in a plane for multiple hours.

Ever been on an 8 hour flight and seen a parent an child, or an adult walking round and round the plane? That’s the movement breaks. It’s actually easier than a car journey, not least because airlines also strive to make things as easy as they can.

At the moment Disney has a great reputation Afro the way they treat people with the cognitive disabilities in particular. It takes courage for parents of those with autism to attempt a trip but it can be done. Just like someone with cerebral palsy or stage 4 cancer can travel. Because everyone is different. It’s about knowing your child and knowing what Accomodations they need to make it doable.

After all, why should the rest of the family not get to make a trip of a lifetime because one of their siblings has a disability?

 

[Splash4eva]

Moving lines matter. Even if it's a 40 minute wait, if you're constantly moving, it feels better than standing in the same spot for 20 minutes. Psychology of the guest matters when running parks.


I'm not sure who said it, but I'll also respond to the idea of DAS users in a standby queue for another ride while in their DAS queue for a different ride. That's ridiculous and shouldn't be allowed. You're using DAS because you *can't* wait in the standby line. You're proving your lack of need by waiting in another line. That should immediately disqualify someone from DAS pass.

Im sorry but 40 minutes is still 40 minutes. The psychology of it does NOT change the fact time wise in real life numbers…
And regarding waiting in line ill disagree as well. I can handle lines that are say 15-20 minutes maybe a little longer max but i can no way handle a 35-60 minutes wait. So if im reading what you said correctly when IASW/Philharmagic/VOTLM etc are basically walk ons i should be forbidden to ride them if im waiting on a VQ for 7Ds 90 minutes from now?

 

[nickys]

Moving lines matter. Even if it's a 40 minute wait, if you're constantly moving, it feels better than standing in the same spot for 20 minutes. Psychology of the guest matters when running parks.


I'm not sure who said it, but I'll also respond to the idea of DAS users in a standby queue for another ride while in their DAS queue for a different ride. That's ridiculous and shouldn't be allowed. You're using DAS because you *can't* wait in the standby line. You're proving your lack of need by waiting in another line. That should immediately disqualify someone from DAS pass.

Devil’s advocate here.

Let’s say we agree on the DAS user. And that it would be possible to enforce this. What about the rest of their group? Should they also be disqualified from waiting for another ride?

What if the person who has the DAS rides 3 things, let’s say they ride Speedway, Dumbo and Buzz. Do the rest of the group get to ride anything else?

 

[nickys]

The advantage I was talking about is about DAS users getting to be on way more rides than non DAS users as evidenced by 10x greater ride capacity consumption when compared to a non-das user.

How many DAS users do you know?
How many actually ride more than 6 rides or so? Most people I know who have used DAS don’t stay in the park long enough to ride more rides than someone who doesn’t have DAS.

I realise this whole discussion is about those who are using it when they don’t need it. But the reality is that many of those who DO need DAS might only have 3-4 hours before having to leave the park. Maybe for physical therapy, a rest, to get medication, maybe they need to use a feeding tube for 90 minutes at lunchtime and don’t want to do that in public etc etc,

I think you’re talking about a possible scenario which the majority of DAS users could never actually benefit from.

The only solution as someone has already said is to look at who needs it. And I understand that is hard because of your ADA laws. I don’t have an answer. But I do know that every single person who needs a DAS would give almost anything to not need it.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

There are two problems here that share a single solution: (a) people without a valid disability using DAS to obtain an advantage over other guests (i.e. by abusing the system), (b) people with a valid disability using DAS to obtain an advantage over other guests (i.e. by using the system the way it’s currently designed).

In theory, DAS is not meant to give disabled guests an extra advantage, but only to remove the disadvantage caused by their disability.

I’m sure this would present some logistical challenges, but the best approach would be to have guests scan their MBs upon entry to the standby line, which would automatically trigger forfeiture of any current DAS LL reservations. This way, regardless of whether you qualify for DAS, you can only wait in one standby line (real or virtual) at a given time. Similarly, if you have G+, redeeming a G+ LL would result in forfeiture of any current DAS LL.

There would no longer be any incentive to abuse the system by feigning a disability, as it would provide no advantage. And those who can’t wait in physical lines would continue to receive the necessary accommodations.

I think this is the best idea yet. Everyone scans a ticket or MB into standby, If you're DAS, you get a return time to enter LL maybe 15 minutes less than current standby time. If you scan a different standby line while waiting for another, it cancels the previous. No prebooks etc. I think that is more than fair.

Edit to add: If DAS user purchases G+, they can have multiple returns as normal.

 

[Splash4eva]

How many DAS users do you know?
How many actually ride more than 6 rides or so? Most people I know who have used DAS don’t stay in the park long enough to ride more rides than someone who doesn’t have DAS.

I realise this whole discussion is about those who are using it when they don’t need it. But the reality is that many of those who DO need DAS might only have 3-4 hours before having to leave the park. Maybe for physical therapy, a rest, to get medication, maybe they need to use a feeding tube for 90 minutes at lunchtime and don’t want to do that in public etc etc,

I think you’re talking about a possible scenario which the majority of DAS users could never actually benefit from.

The only solution as someone has already said is to look at who needs it. And I understand that is hard because of your ADA laws. I don’t have an answer. But I do know that every single person who needs a DAS would give almost anything to not need it.

To answer you question simply. Everyone i know that uses DAS rides more than 6 attractions a day… i can probably think of at least 20-25 people i know that need the service. Different age groups as well. Small sample size of course but none the less an answer to a question you posed. To me a couple simple adjustments are this. Remove the 2 pre booked rides. Reduce how many are allowed in party & cap it when you are approved so they cant add people who are not part of their initial group. Probably not legal but limit rerides how you do that i dk but it would definitely help on major attractions

 

[nickys]

To answer you question simply. Everyone i know that uses DAS rides more than 6 attractions a day… i can probably think of at least 20-25 people i know that need the service. Different age groups as well. Small sample size of course but none the less an answer to a question you posed. To me a couple simple adjustments are this. Remove the 2 pre booked rides. Reduce how many are allowed in party & cap it when you are approved so they cant add people who are not part of their initial group. Probably not legal but limit rerides how you do that i dk but it would definitely help on major attractions

So if I understand it, once someone is approved it lasts for 6 months or a year? Is it feasible to not allow them to add different people to their group? What if they need a nurse or carer with them? Or they go with Mum the first time and Dad the next (separated / divorced)? Or they are a single adult and sometimes go with a friend, sometimes a sibling, sometimes a carer - obviously this would mainly be locals who would go several times in a year with different people.

I guess I’m struggling to see the relevance to the problem here. The groups are capped at 6 I believe, other than certain exceptions. The exceptions might be needed if they are legitimately a larger immediate family unit.

 

[Splash4eva]

I think this is the best idea yet. Everyone scans a ticket or MB into standby, If you're DAS, you get a return time to enter LL maybe 15 minutes less than current standby time. If you scan a different standby line while waiting for another, it cancels the previous. No prebooks etc. I think that is more than fair.

Edit to add: If DAS user purchases G+, they can have multiple returns as normal.

So if I understand it, once someone is approved it lasts for 6 months or a year? Is it feasible to not allow them to add different people to their group? What if they need a nurse or carer with them? Or they go with Mum the first time and Dad the next (separated / divorced)? Or they are a single adult and sometimes go with a friend, sometimes a sibling, sometimes a carer - obviously this would mainly be locals who would go several times in a year with different people.

I guess I’m struggling to see the relevance to the problem here. The groups are capped at 6 I believe, other than certain exceptions. The exceptions might be needed if they are legitimately a larger immediate family unit.

Its good for 60days from when you are approved…. Its good for up to 6 people as you said but in theory i can add anyone to my family/friend group after my initial booking. I go w my daughter & mom now so its just us 3 but in theory i can add 3 more to my party at any point.

 

[Drdcm]

How many DAS users do you know?
How many actually ride more than 6 rides or so? Most people I know who have used DAS don’t stay in the park long enough to ride more rides than someone who doesn’t have DAS.

I realise this whole discussion is about those who are using it when they don’t need it. But the reality is that many of those who DO need DAS might only have 3-4 hours before having to leave the park. Maybe for physical therapy, a rest, to get medication, maybe they need to use a feeding tube for 90 minutes at lunchtime and don’t want to do that in public etc etc,

I think you’re talking about a possible scenario which the majority of DAS users could never actually benefit from.

The only solution as someone has already said is to look at who needs it. And I understand that is hard because of your ADA laws. I don’t have an answer. But I do know that every single person who needs a DAS would give almost anything to not need it.

I don’t know why the data is showing that. That’s what’s interesting about the data. It’s a very large percentage of ride capacity for a low percentage of guests. There’s an explanation for it somewhere, but it’s a mystery to me.

 

[mikejs78]

I think this is the best idea yet. Everyone scans a ticket or MB into standby, If you're DAS, you get a return time to enter LL maybe 15 minutes less than current standby time. If you scan a different standby line while waiting for another, it cancels the previous. No prebooks etc. I think that is more than fair.

Sure, go ahead and increase the standby line wait time by 50%.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Sure, go ahead and increase the standby line wait time by 50%.

I don’t think it would do that. Standby lines generally do not move any faster than LL lines (and often move much slower). If the LL line can accommodate the touchpoint, the standby line could as well.

You might get temporary buildups of guests at the queue entrance at some points (like you do for LL), but those guests would eventually catch up to the rest of the line, and their overall wait time would remain unchanged because the ultimate bottleneck would still be load.

 

[DisneyDodo]

I don’t know why the data is showing that. That’s what’s interesting about the data. It’s a very large percentage of ride capacity for a low percentage of guests. There’s an explanation for it somewhere, but it’s a mystery to me.

I think the clear explanation is that DAS is a lot more efficient because guests can wait in 2 lines at once - 1 virtually and 1 physically.

 

[mikejs78]

I think the clear explanation is that DAS is a lot more efficient because guests can wait in 2 lines at once - 1 virtually and 1 physically.

How would the data show that? They don't have a way of tracking regular standby use by DAS users.

 

[DisneyDodo]

How would the data show that? They don't have a way of tracking regular standby use by DAS users.

Right, but this was 30% for the most popular rides, which presumably would be the ones they’d be waiting in virtually.

So while the typical guest would spend some of their time in popular queues and the rest of their time elsewhere (e.g., less popular queues, shopping, dining, restrooms, etc.), DAS guests can spend just about all of their time in popular queues, while doing all of those other things simultaneously.

As a result, DAS consumes a disproportionately high percentage of the popular rides’ capacity.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Right, but this was 30% for the most popular rides, which presumably would be the ones they’d be waiting in virtually.

So while the typical guest would spend some of their time in popular queues and the rest of their time elsewhere (e.g., less popular queues, shopping, dining, restrooms, etc.), DAS guests can spend just about all of their time in popular queues, while doing all of those other things simultaneously.

As a result, DAS consumes a disproportionately high percentage of the popular rides’ capacity.

When we go my personal capacity for the whole thing is low, so we do the rides highest on our list and leave the park. That’s not to say we never do rides like Pooh and Pan, but those are often only when it’s a walk on or we’re at Disney for at least a week.

So like, animal kingdom for us looks like: FoP, Na’vi, Safari, leave. HS for us looks like: Rise, sometimes Smugglers, TSMM, leave. Although M&MRR is a new favorite of my daughters, so I’m sure we’ll have to rejuggle that in the future.

Anyway, my point is if you’re saying that DAS disproportionately shows in more popular rides, it might just be a priority thing for the DAS users. From, a data perspective, i would expect that to be the case.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Also: since we’re all arguing about where DAS users wait for their return times, can i just take a moment and say…

WE NEED MORE BENCHES why is there nowhere to sit and rest

 

[Purduevian]

But if I just had Genie+ I could do that. Let's say I had gotten a HM return time for 11:00 a.m. and I got my DAS pass at 10 AM for a return at 11. Now, we all know Peter Pan lasts about 90 seconds, so if I had standby and Genie+ I could easily get in line at 10, wait for an hour, then go make my HM Genie+.

Where do you cut it off? Let's say I have an 11 AM LL for HM and I get in a 55 DAS virtual line at 11. Should I be denied because of my HM pass? Or have the HM pass cancelled? Especially since someone who didn't have DAS could do that and easily make it to HM within the grace period?

Couple that with the fact that DAS return times don't currently expire - with the caveat that, unlike Genie+, you can't hold more than one at once.

The cut off should be no scanning into/redeeming a LL while holding a DAS return time. Just like I cannot scan into a LL while standing in a standby line.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

There is absolutely an advantage in that they can "wait" for DAS attractions without waiting in the standby queue. This is by necessity, but it frees them up to watch a streetmosphere show or even a major entertainment offering, shop, eat, and generally take in more of the park, while the non-disabled guest is still physically in line.

The only alternative to that is the "holding area" idea which wouldn't work for a variety of reasons.

While there is the advantage, I don't consider it unfair because 1.) it is required by law to accommodate guests with disabilities, and Disney is known for going above and beyond to be inclusive of these guests, and 2.) guests with disabilities and their families/travel party face challenges which the average, non-disabled guest does not face, and in many cases, can "slow them down," which can impact the amount they can experience (in both quality and quantity) during their visit.

Rides are just one aspect of visiting WDW. I think able-bodied folks forget all the times/ways they have significant advantages at WDW. Moving around WDW is very Darwinian. If you are fast and nimble, you get advantages all day.

It is everything from exiting rides quickly, getting off the monorail quickly, moving into every open space, grabbing a QS table, restrooms, seeing the animals at AK, quickly getting in a queue, easy access to merchandise in every store.

Even loading onto rides is often much slower if you have mobility limitations, because you have to wait for the accessible vehicle.

Able bodied folks don't see how often they pass wheelchair users.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Rides are just one aspect of visiting WDW. I think able-bodied folks forget all the times/ways they have significant advantages at WDW. Moving around WDW is very Darwinian. If you are fast and nimble, you get advantages all day.

It is everything from exiting rides quickly, getting off the monorail quickly, moving into every open space, grabbing a QS table, restrooms, seeing the animals at AK, quickly getting in a queue, easy access to merchandise in every store.

Even loading onto rides is often much slower if you have mobility limitations, because you have to wait for the accessible vehicle.

Able bodied folks don't see how often they pass wheelchair users.

That’s certainly true, but DAS isn’t even targeted at guests with mobility issues. It’s specifically meant as an accommodation for those who can’t wait in line. IIUC, mobility issues alone would not qualify someone for DAS, as the guest would be expected to wait in the queue on a scooter.

But even if DAS were meant to accommodate mobility issues, it already accomplishes that by allowing guests to virtually enter a queue from their current location, rather than having to navigate their way to the attraction entrance. They can then make their way to the attraction at their leisure (once their callback time approaches). Even if able-bodied people pass them on the way, they’ll still end up boarding the ride later because the disabled guest gets access to the LL.