Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[lentesta]

You and I have exchanged some thoughts on Jungle Cruise. Do you have any more insight as to what may be going on here? Are you also still of the impression that Genie+ distribution is fixed (and equal) at every attraction at just under 300 per hour with the remaining guests in that queue comprised of DAS and make goods?

I'm less sure about the G+ reservations per hour, but I don't have any data around it. My suspicion is that they make multiple passes over a "return at" time window.

With Jungle Cruise my initial guess is that adding 2x the boats is either bad show or introduces capacity issues.

We're counting in line again at the MK starting this weekend. I'll let you know what we see.

 

[lentesta]

I also don't think Disney is intentionally limiting capacity throughout the day... but they certainly do it for several attractions at park open and park close.

I have also witnessed them run half capacity/reduced loading at Cosmic Rewind, Remy, and Soarin' during EPCOT After Hours. At first I thought it may have been a fluke due to an issue with an attraction, but all three in one night can't be a fluke.

IMO, if there is ANY wait time for a ride, there shouldn't be a reduction in capacity, period. But I guess they want to save as much labor as possible.

If I had to guess, I'd spitball these as the recent hourly throughput goals for Cosmic Rewind:

• 9 am - 950 riders
• 10 am - 950
• 11 am - 950
• noon - 1,200
• 1 pm - 1,300
• 2 pm - 1,400
• 3 pm - 1,400
• 4 pm - 1,500
• 5 pm - 1,600
• 6 pm - 1,400
• 7 pm - 1,400
• 8 pm - 1,300

I could be wrong.

 

[Purduevian]

I'm less sure about the G+ reservations per hour, but I don't have any data around it. My suspicion is that they make multiple passes over a "return at" time window.

With Jungle Cruise my initial guess is that adding 2x the boats is either bad show or introduces capacity issues.

We're counting in line again at the MK starting this weekend. I'll let you know what we see.

I've often wondered if changing the configuration of the boats into rows (similar to Pirates/Small world seating style) would be feasible/worth it. The bottle neck right now seems to be that only 2 people can load or unload into a boat at a time. Instead of 2 people moving you could probably get like 8 or 9 rows going at once.

Another idea I had to "fix" JC capacity would be do both Load and Unload at both locations. This would require that the boats be able to pass each other, and also a change to the queue

Its always interesting to me that JC/Pan sells out so quickly on G+, when I don't think most people would actually put them in their top 2 favorite MK attractions, it's all just low capacity with 0 height restrictions.

Side note, just found your podcast last week and I've really enjoyed the past 2 episodes!

 

[Jenny72]

Just another anecdote. Talked to an acquaintance who recently returned from DW. She said she had bought Genie+ thinking that there were two lines--the longer standby one and the short LL one. If you paid for Genie+, you got to use the shorter line. She was unhappily surprised to learn that she had to be on her phone scheduling return times. It just never occurred to her that it would work that way, and she wasn't thrilled about it.

It's one thing to say that Disney is no different from anyone else by offering plans to avoid/shorten lines, but it's another thing to realize just how weird it is.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Plenty of posters have cited examples

Of Disney intentionally operating rides at 50 percent capacity to increase wait times? No, they have not.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

It's one thing to say that Disney is no different from anyone else by offering plans to avoid/shorten lines, but it's another thing to realize just how weird it is.

If Disney's G+ system was a pure line-skip system like all the other parks, then it would be the cheapest line skip system of any major theme park. Your friend really though it was just $30ish per day to get unlimited fastpasses?

 

[UNCgolf]

If Disney's G+ system was a pure line-skip system like all the other parks, then it would be the cheapest line skip system of any major theme park. Your friend really though it was just $30ish per day to get unlimited fastpasses?

I don't find that especially hard to believe. I doubt the average guest knows much about Disney operations, much less operations at Universal or other parks.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don't find that especially hard to believe. I doubt the average guest knows much about Disney operations, much less operations at Universal or other parks.

Agreed. It's why I don't understand why so many scoff at the idea Disney is a complicated vacation.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I don't find that especially hard to believe. I doubt the average guest knows much about Disney operations, much less operations at Universal or other parks.

I guess, but even six flags line skips cost more. Heck, all of my regional area parks (Dorney Park, Hershey, Legolandetc), cost significantly more.

 

[Andrew25]

Agreed. It's why I don't understand why so many scoff at the idea Disney is a complicated vacation.

Difficult? No. Annoying? yes.

If you want to use express at Universal, you either buy it or don't. No need for additional planning.

At WDW, you need to know which attractions offer Genie vs Lightning Lane, what time you can select, how much they are, and then add a virtual queue to the mix.

The problem I have, and most people highlight, is that if you don't do any planning/or use Genie, your stuck with slow moving standby lines. It's not the WDW of the past we're if you didn't use Fastpass you can still show up at park open and knock out a bunch of rides within an hour or two.

 

[DisneyDodo]

The complexity with Genie+ is not just about the mechanics of how it works. It’s about the strategy. If you don’t go to WDW often and don’t spend hours researching in advance, you have no way of knowing which LLs run out when. So even if you’re willing to spend the money to reduce your wait times, you may still end up waiting almost as long as the average guest.

 

[UNCgolf]

I guess, but even six flags line skips cost more. Heck, all of my regional area parks (Dorney Park, Hershey, Legolandetc), cost significantly more.

Sure, I just think there are a significant number of families who go on a trip to Disney without ever visiting another park -- or even if they have, not paid any attention to whatever line skip they might be offering.

There are also a bunch of people who like Disney parks (and Universal, although maybe to a lesser extent other than the HP areas) but don't ever visit regional parks for various reasons. I'm in this category -- there's a Six Flags 20-30 minutes from my front door but there isn't a single attraction there that interests me so there's no reason to go. Those people are more likely to know what Genie+ is, though.

 

[Nubs70]

Of Disney intentionally operating rides at 50 percent capacity to increase wait times? No, they have not.

Does WDW have financial incentive to do so?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Does WDW have financial incentive to do so?

Not really. They don’t really **need** to juice wait times, they are busy all the time. The marginal savings they might accomplish by staffing less intentionally are definitely outweighed by the negative effect that would have on GSAT scores.

 

[Nubs70]

Not really. They don’t really **need** to juice wait times, they are busy all the time. The marginal savings they might accomplish by staffing less intentionally are definitely outweighed by the negative effect that would have on GSAT scores.

By reducing the number of load zones, the takt time of the load cycle increases thereby increasing the total ride cycle time. Such that the queue load increases creating a level of guest FOMO that is alleviated by G+ and LL.

Think about it... 1 G+ or 1 LL purchase pays for 1hr of CM wage. No incentive at all to "juice" wait times.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

By reducing the number of load zones, the takt time of the load cycle increases thereby increasing the total ride cycle time. Such that the queue load increases creating a level of guest FOMO that is alleviated by G+ and LL.

Think about it... 1 G+ or 1 LL purchase pays for 1hr of CM wage. No incentive at all to "juice" wait times.

Except there is zero evidence they are doing this. Yes, first thing in the morning perhaps and late at night when crowds are low, on a select few attractions that don’t need the capacity at those times, but there is no evidence otherwise. They don’t need to increase queue load. The load is already extreme enough that all lightning lanes sell out for every major attraction every day. If they reduced throughput during busy times they would be able to sell **less** lightning lanes, not more.

 

[Andrew25]

Are they intentionally running rides at half capacity? No.

Does it feel like they are running rides at half capacity because of technical issues? Yes.

When attractions go down for 2-3 hours a day, and then play catchup on all those Genie/Lightning Lane reservations later, it feels like rides are running reduced capacity from a standby perspective.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

The complexity with Genie+ is not just about the mechanics of how it works. It’s about the strategy. If you don’t go to WDW often and don’t spend hours researching in advance, you have no way of knowing which LLs run out when. So even if you’re willing to spend the money to reduce your wait times, you may still end up waiting almost as long as the average guest.

Exactly. If you're going to spend the money on G+, not a bad idea to do a bit of research on it.

 

[Purduevian]

Large backups can happen for a few reasons:

1. Reduction in ride capacity (for technical reason).
2. Previous down time at the attraction. Doesn't look like this happened today to TOT
3. A similar attraction nearby had a down time and everyone is using the ME at this new attraction (RNRC still down for refurb?)
4. An event nearby caused a surge of LL guests to all come to an attraction after (usually this happens at MK after a parade).

I'm going to assume #1 for TOT as it's one of the few rides that can operate at 50% capacity easily. It looks bad, but I bet the person in the back of the line was in the preshow in less than 20 mins

 

[Andrew25]

I'm going to assume #1 for TOT as it's one of the few rides that can operate at 50% capacity easily. It looks bad, but I bet the person in the back of the line was in the preshow in less than 20 mins

For Genie+ line, sure they made it in quick. Everyone else in standby is probably still stuck in line lol