Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[DCBaker]

Genie+ at Magic Kingdom and the Multiple Parks option have sold out for today (was priced at $29).

 

[pigglewiggle]

I'm curious if the changes that were supposed to be coming for this year will ever materialize.

 

[Laketravis]

When standby is 60+ min and one loading area of multiple loading areas is staffed and operating, WDW is not operating the ride at capacity.

What incentive does WDW have to create long standby times?

I observed this many, many times last week.

 

[lentesta]

Genie + is such a scam-- Disney runs attractions at half capacity, reduced staff thus artificially increasing wait times forcing people to buy Genie while driving up the price. Disney's greed knows no bounds.

I get where you're coming from. Just to be clear - I don't think Disney runs its rides at "half" capacity (or anything close to it) for Genie+. As far as I can tell, most rides are operating pretty close to 100% of their operating capacity, most of the time.

The few exceptions I can think of:

• I don't know what the theoretical hourly capacity is for Cosmic Rewind. The actual numbers I've seen top out at around 1,600/hour.
• Likewise, I don't think Cosmic Rewind operates at 1,600/hour every hour of every day, even though it could (and maybe should)
• There's a discrepancy at Jungle Cruise between what Disney has said the THRC is (~2,000/hour) and what we see (~900/hour)
• I wouldn't be surprised if ride downtime is 10% of daily capacity across all rides in all parks. That definitely increases standby waits.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I get where you're coming from. Just to be clear - I don't think Disney runs its rides at "half" capacity (or anything close to it) for Genie+. As far as I can tell, most rides are operating pretty close to 100% of their operating capacity, most of the time.

The few exceptions I can think of:

• I don't know what the theoretical hourly capacity is for Cosmic Rewind. The actual numbers I've seen top out at around 1,600/hour.
• Likewise, I don't think Cosmic Rewind operates at 1,600/hour every hour of every day, even though it could (and maybe should)
• There's a discrepancy at Jungle Cruise between what Disney has said the THRC is (~2,000/hour) and what we see (~900/hour)
• I wouldn't be surprised if ride downtime is 10% of daily capacity across all rides in all parks. That definitely increases standby waits.

I have to think that Cosmic Rewind I hurt in the early morning by its VQ. People don't know when their BG will be called when they book, so people in the first wave of BGs may arrive later and create unused capacity during the first hour or so.

 

[brettf22]

Genie+ is not the only cause of the issues. A finite number of LL is issued for each hour and is possibly the same as the old fastpass+ number. Inceased use of DAS, legitimate or otherwise is just as responsible for the standby issues as @lentesta has said

I would posit that increased DAS use is also a direct result of G+. Charging for what used to be free encourages people to find alternatives, both legitimate and illegitimate.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Disney runs attractions at half capacity,

[citation needed]

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Remember the sub 30 minute standby waits for things like Big Thunder during COVID when the queue was backed up to the River's of America waterfront pathway.

Those were socially distanced queue’s though.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

There's a discrepancy at Jungle Cruise between what Disney has said the THRC is (~2,000/hour) and what we see (~900/hour)

That’s a pretty big discrepancy. Do you think it’s just not enough skippers?

 

[John park hopper]

[citation needed]

Plenty of posters have cited examples

 

[lentesta]

That’s a pretty big discrepancy. Do you think it’s just not enough skippers?

Or the original estimate was flawed.

 

[Andrew25]

I get where you're coming from. Just to be clear - I don't think Disney runs its rides at "half" capacity (or anything close to it) for Genie+. As far as I can tell, most rides are operating pretty close to 100% of their operating capacity, most of the time.

The few exceptions I can think of:

• I don't know what the theoretical hourly capacity is for Cosmic Rewind. The actual numbers I've seen top out at around 1,600/hour.
• Likewise, I don't think Cosmic Rewind operates at 1,600/hour every hour of every day, even though it could (and maybe should)
• There's a discrepancy at Jungle Cruise between what Disney has said the THRC is (~2,000/hour) and what we see (~900/hour)
• I wouldn't be surprised if ride downtime is 10% of daily capacity across all rides in all parks. That definitely increases standby waits.

Yeah, Cosmic Rewind "ideally" can dispatch every 35-40 secs which is an impressive 1.8K to 2.0K guess an hour, you then have to reduce downtime, people taking a bit longer to load, backups at unload, unforeseen cleanups, etc.

Or the original estimate was flawed.

Yeah, that estimate of 2K an hour means boats should dispatch roughly every 60 secs... which is not happening. It's usually every 2 minutes or so.

 

[Purduevian]

Plenty of posters have cited examples

I get where you're coming from. Just to be clear - I don't think Disney runs its rides at "half" capacity (or anything close to it) for Genie+. As far as I can tell, most rides are operating pretty close to 100% of their operating capacity, most of the time.

Len has proven to be a very reliable source of information/Disney statistics and he disagrees with you. Either accept that most users here don't agree with you and drop it (which is ok, not everyone has to agree) or provide something other than anecdotal evidence to support your claim.

When getting into a discussion, you need to ask the other person, what would it take you to believe my side?

At least for me, I will believe Len over you unless you can provide video/picture proof, or an article (from a reliable source) to show that Disney runs popular rides at half capacity on purpose during busy times.

 

[TheIceBaron]

I don’t think they run their attractions at half capacity intentionally. I remember vommiting all over my seat at the incredicoaster at DCA and I think they closed the row I was in for a bit but justifiably so.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I came back on here to comment as well, I don't think Disney is intentionally / or at all, operating their attractions at anything less than full capacity. It doesn't make any sense to.... and before you hit me with the "to sell" Genie+, they're doing that anyway. I do think wait times are inflated but thats a whole other can of worms.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I get where you're coming from. Just to be clear - I don't think Disney runs its rides at "half" capacity (or anything close to it) for Genie+. As far as I can tell, most rides are operating pretty close to 100% of their operating capacity, most of the time.

The few exceptions I can think of:

• I don't know what the theoretical hourly capacity is for Cosmic Rewind. The actual numbers I've seen top out at around 1,600/hour.
• Likewise, I don't think Cosmic Rewind operates at 1,600/hour every hour of every day, even though it could (and maybe should)
• There's a discrepancy at Jungle Cruise between what Disney has said the THRC is (~2,000/hour) and what we see (~900/hour)
• I wouldn't be surprised if ride downtime is 10% of daily capacity across all rides in all parks. That definitely increases standby waits.

You and I have exchanged some thoughts on Jungle Cruise. Do you have any more insight as to what may be going on here? Are you also still of the impression that Genie+ distribution is fixed (and equal) at every attraction at just under 300 per hour with the remaining guests in that queue comprised of DAS and make goods?

 

[co10064]

I don't think Disney runs its rides at "half" capacity (or anything close to it) for Genie+. As far as I can tell, most rides are operating pretty close to 100% of their operating capacity, most of the time.

I don’t think they run their attractions at half capacity intentionally.

I came back on here to comment as well, I don't think Disney is intentionally / or at all, operating their attractions at anything less than full capacity.

I also don't think Disney is intentionally limiting capacity throughout the day... but they certainly do it for several attractions at park open and park close.

I have also witnessed them run half capacity/reduced loading at Cosmic Rewind, Remy, and Soarin' during EPCOT After Hours. At first I thought it may have been a fluke due to an issue with an attraction, but all three in one night can't be a fluke.

IMO, if there is ANY wait time for a ride, there shouldn't be a reduction in capacity, period. But I guess they want to save as much labor as possible.

 

[lentesta]

You and I have exchanged some thoughts on Jungle Cruise. Do you have any more insight as to what may be going on here? Are you also still of the impression that Genie+ distribution is fixed (and equal) at every attraction at just under 300 per hour with the remaining guests in that queue comprised of DAS and make goods?

I'm less sure about the G+ reservations per hour, but I don't have any data around it. My suspicion is that they make multiple passes over a "return at" time window.

With Jungle Cruise my initial guess is that adding 2x the boats is either bad show or introduces capacity issues.

We're counting in line again at the MK starting this weekend. I'll let you know what we see.

 

[lentesta]

I also don't think Disney is intentionally limiting capacity throughout the day... but they certainly do it for several attractions at park open and park close.

I have also witnessed them run half capacity/reduced loading at Cosmic Rewind, Remy, and Soarin' during EPCOT After Hours. At first I thought it may have been a fluke due to an issue with an attraction, but all three in one night can't be a fluke.

IMO, if there is ANY wait time for a ride, there shouldn't be a reduction in capacity, period. But I guess they want to save as much labor as possible.

If I had to guess, I'd spitball these as the recent hourly throughput goals for Cosmic Rewind:

• 9 am - 950 riders
• 10 am - 950
• 11 am - 950
• noon - 1,200
• 1 pm - 1,300
• 2 pm - 1,400
• 3 pm - 1,400
• 4 pm - 1,500
• 5 pm - 1,600
• 6 pm - 1,400
• 7 pm - 1,400
• 8 pm - 1,300

I could be wrong.

 

[Purduevian]

I'm less sure about the G+ reservations per hour, but I don't have any data around it. My suspicion is that they make multiple passes over a "return at" time window.

With Jungle Cruise my initial guess is that adding 2x the boats is either bad show or introduces capacity issues.

We're counting in line again at the MK starting this weekend. I'll let you know what we see.

I've often wondered if changing the configuration of the boats into rows (similar to Pirates/Small world seating style) would be feasible/worth it. The bottle neck right now seems to be that only 2 people can load or unload into a boat at a time. Instead of 2 people moving you could probably get like 8 or 9 rows going at once.

Another idea I had to "fix" JC capacity would be do both Load and Unload at both locations. This would require that the boats be able to pass each other, and also a change to the queue

Its always interesting to me that JC/Pan sells out so quickly on G+, when I don't think most people would actually put them in their top 2 favorite MK attractions, it's all just low capacity with 0 height restrictions.

Side note, just found your podcast last week and I've really enjoyed the past 2 episodes!