Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Do you think this was really just about selling more G+ at lower prices to people in Epcot and AK?

Not for a second…

This is a badly worded attempt to Raise the ceiling by dragging the floor up.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Not for a second…

This is a badly worded attempt to Raise the ceiling by dragging the floor up.

Bingo

 

[MrPromey]

I'm not 100% sure because his hasn't been implemented yet. But I think it's possible because they will still be making more money this way by selling more. Plus it will help push people to those parks.

Okay, there is no discussion for us to have, then.

Disney's done this with their variable pricing too many times now for it not to be obvious.

They'll roll it out at the "base" prices then things will change - quickly or slowly but they'll change and we're not talking about inflationary change. I would bet my life they've already mapped out a few different price increase trajectories for the five different options they're now offering based on best to worse case scenarios for what they can get away with.*

Just look at G+ itself. They actually started screwing with that one faster than I expected and I went into it cynical.

... but maybe this time will be different.

They really love us, right?

Maybe this time they've changed...


*People talk like they are increasing prices to discourage people from going to MK. Only other guests who don't want to stand behind you in line care if you go to MK. Management is happy to have you go if you pay the higher price to get in and the higher price for G+. They're not trying to discourage anything, they're trying to find ways to profit more from the bad traffic patterns they've created and this change to the system just opened that opportunity a whole lot wider for them.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I just view it like going to the casino and Disney is the house.

Some individuals will come out ahead (just as some individuals will benefit from this change) ... But in the end, the house (or the Mouse) always wins

 

[MrPromey]

They will make more money now by offering cheaper options for Epcot and AK as few people buy it currently for those parks. Combine that with the endless and ridiculous chase of being a growth company and worshipping at the alter of quarterlies, yes, more money now is a good thing and a good reason to do it.

Now, having said that, there is a zero percent chance they don't raise prices down the line but that was going to happen no matter what because again, got to beat that y/y comp or you are punished by the street.

With that in mind, why not take the win with more options and cheaper ones at that if you happen to be someone who uses G+ at those parks?

Look at the brief history of G+ pricing and tell me how long you expect that party to last?

Got your reservations in to be there before the holidays this year?

This change removes most of the friction that prevented them from charging more aggressively for it than they already were.

 

[Disstevefan1]

 

[MrPromey]

Bear in mind, when this was originally announced it was $15 a day with maybe a LL for a high demand attraction such as GotG or RotR. Beginning of this thread, some said it was reasonable, in defense of it being “unlimited” and despite it no longer being a free add on.

Now some are “defending” the same 4 park product being at close to double the price, which is probably going to go up on peak days, plus your LL for the high demand ones unless you want that 2 hour wait for Mine Train.

The longer you continue to say “this is fine” and pay up, the more it’s gonna happen.

Yeah, so the price to get this at just AK on a slow day will be only a few dollars more than the price this thing launched at for property-wide access every day less than two years ago.

The savings!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm not 100% sure because his hasn't been implemented yet. But I think it's possible because they will still be making more money this way by selling more. Plus it will help push people to those parks.

This is not crowd control…that has been the standard excuse for everything done during the reign of Iger.

And it’s wrong. Ask more of yourself.
It’s just attempting to squeeze more revenue and profit from margins with zero investment.

What’s different now is they’re kinda in trouble and running out of options.

That stock down like $6.50 for the week?
How about $105 in 2 years.

 

[Dranth]

It's only a win for those who don't hop. Or hop but only plan to use Genie + at one park. It's a loss for people who hopped and used Genie + at both parks when Epcot and AK are involved.

The rest of you can pay cheaper genie prices for DHS, AK and Epcot. Hoppers have to purchase the all 4 pass on top of paying for hopping unless we specifically know what park we want to hop to. And if we will use Genie +.

Previously, we all paid the same. And we got to use it at 2 parks because we already paid for hopping!!!

Gah!

I get it and I think I was in a similar place when I first read about it.

I think what started to change my mind was realizing that people can essentially choose to continue to use the system as it is now by just purchasing the all-park pass on days they want G+. If someone wants to engage with it further and try to min/max spending, they can.

I am keenly aware that I may well end up back here eating these words down the line but for now, as currently presented, it doesn't seem that bad to me.

 

[AshaNeOmah]

The real problem I see here is that no one will ever leave MK (or HS to a lesser degree) to hop to AK or Epcot if a multipark G+ was purchased. The opposite will occur and people will have even more incentive to hop to MK. Why waste the value when you've got MK G+ available?

 

[monothingie]

Bob just doesn’t get it…nobody wants his product right now…and he’s trying to sell to his stock lords that’s NOT the case

You do realize that the people making these decisions and coming up with these schemes have no understanding that they are only making guests hate this even more.

 

[MrPromey]

I get it and I think I was in a similar place when I first read about it.

I think what started to change my mind was realizing that people can essentially choose to continue to use the system as it is now by just purchasing the all-park pass on days they want G+. If someone wants to engage with it further and try to min/max spending, they can.

I am keenly aware that I may well end up back here eating these words down the line but for now, as currently presented, it doesn't seem that bad to me.

Spoken like a frog in a pot on a stove.

In all seriousness, I have 100% respect for you being willing to acknowledge you could be wrong about this.

I try to acknowledge when I'm wrong too - I know it's hard and we have a handful around here who become more flexible than a Cirque du Soeil act when trying to twist around to avoid making that admission so I really do mean it.

I don't think I'm wrong but I'll be back to eat my share of crow if I am, too.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I get it and I think I was in a similar place when I first read about it.

I think what started to change my mind was realizing that people can essentially choose to continue to use the system as it is now by just purchasing the all-park pass on days they want G+. If someone wants to engage with it further and try to min/max spending, they can.

I am keenly aware that I may well end up back here eating these words down the line but for now, as currently presented, it doesn't seem that bad to me.

Yeah difference is they can call that “premium” and Jack the price

We really need to have a mandatory consumer psychology class around here

 

[Dranth]

Look at the brief history of G+ pricing and tell me how long you expect that party to last?

Got your reservations in to be there before the holidays this year?

This change removes most of the friction that prevented them from charging more aggressively for it than they already were.

You aren't wrong and I don't entirely disagree but something like this was going to happen eventually. There was no chance they weren't going to try to further monetize this and they couldn't ignore all the complaints from people who purchased G+ for AK or EPCOT.

What they came up with looks fine and given their track record, they could have done much worse. I know that is faint praise but the company is where it is right now.

 

[flynnibus]

Ask yourself- why now? Why so suddenly? Why on that date? And why when they’ve been taking drastic measures to get people in the parks?

Next earnings call is Aug 8. I’m sure the new guy will be be able to deftly spin those numbers.

Best way to drive revenue (short-term) is with prices and upsells.

Reading between the lines they are expecting Genie+ sales to be a big contributor to their revenue numbers and they are seeing Genie+ sales suffer for the lesser parks... so what do you do? Make it so you can pump the sales of G+ in those parks by lowering the price without risking the normal G+ price.

They are trying to drive Genie+ to 100% customer adoption and probably found single-park visits at the parks where G+ has limited options suffering.

The tell here is they are pushing simplification and yet made the solution more complicated with this move. That says this move is about pumping those G+ attach rates and the free money that comes with it.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Just when you think they may have figured out how to stop making dumb decisions…

Bob sez:

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Once again, that's not the question.

Someone who plans to have dinner at a resort and then hop to a second park is NOT going to have any issues or confusion with this system. They're going to buy the "all parks" option when they buy Genie+ in the first place, and it's going to work just like it does now.

We're ONLY talking about the people who do not plan to park hop so they buy a one-park Genie+, but then decide to park hop at the last minute. THAT is what I'm saying is rare.


Oh my God.

IT DOESN'T MATTER which park you picked of DHS or Epcot. In the morning, you would have bought the "all parks" Genie+ and you'd be covered.

It looks like @TheMaxRebo is the only one who doesn't have a hard time understanding this.

We all know that there are families who end up hopping without planning to. It could be that the park they chose that day is more crowded than they expected and they see shorter waits/more to do at another park or maybe they have a cranky kid who is upset because they thought they were going to get to ride MMRR today or the kid needs a nap and when they're ready to go back they see their 1st park now has limited LL options that meet their needs/desires. There's also now the potential for someone to start at AK with Early Entry and plan to hit the rides on their wish list before hopping to a different park later. They choose DHS and buy G+ for just that park to save a little money because the AK Early Entry eliminated the need for G+ there. Now DHS is crowded and they're having a hard time getting the rides they want. They have 2 choices now: upgrade to the multi-park G+ to try a 3rd park (or to re-ride the rides at AK that they ride standby in the AM) and waste time on line for their partial refund or chalk their G+ purchase up as a loss and have a less enjoyable time at DHS (or Park #3 with no G+). Do either of those seem like scenarios that will inspire repeat G+ purchases for future visits? This may end up being a small % of guests impacted by the choice to only buy G+ for Park #2, but all of these small subsets add up and it's not like they're in a position to needlessly annoy guests with extra headaches. And then there's the off-in-the-distance tease of being able to pre-plan. If/when that rolls out, how will that work with this change? They keep adding more and more decisions to what used to be a fairly simple vacation.

People now need to decide by 7 AM:
1. if they want an ILL,
2. Do they want a VQ,
3. Do they want G+, and now
4. If yes to #3, do they want a single park or multi-park?

Not exactly a stress-free start to the day, is it?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Well, on the other hand, if they don't make the changes they just annouced your only choice would have been the most expensive, all park option we have now.

This gives you the option if you do know to maybe save some money.

But this change now makes it easier for them to boost the price of the MK and multi-park options even higher than they are now, so the guests in those categories are spending more money. For larger families, that adds up.

 

[IanDLBZF]

People now need to decide by 7 AM:
1. if they want an ILL,
2. Do they want a VQ,
3. Do they want G+, and now
4. If yes to #3, do they want a single park or multi-park?

The answer to #4 will likely depend on if you have a 1-park-per-day ticket or park hopper tickets.

 

[Dranth]

Yeah difference is they can call that “premium” and Jack the price

We really need to have a mandatory consumer psychology class around here

Not necessarily.

Again, as presented this isn't that bad. If they come out a week or a few months after it starts and double the price of the all-park version then I will be first in line with my pitchfork at the ready. I certainly recognize that is a possibility but even then, it is a bit of a no-lose situation in my mind.

If they have started to learn from recent mistakes and are being legit about this, prices will not increase significantly beyond some minor adjustments here or there for a good while. They will take the increased sales volume/profit from AK and EPCOT and be happy. On the other hand, if they truly are stupid and go ahead and significantly jack up the prices on any or all of the G+ options it will trigger even more to abandon Disney and their numbers will continue to go down the toilet until people are fired and/or significant changes are made.