Labor cost cutting measures begin at Walt Disney World as the company enters Q1

[Patcheslee]

I think that part got scrapped.

So Plan B: MK will take part in "Drink around It's a Small World" for the price of $29.99 guests can receive a musical mug filled with their favorite beverages synced to the attraction. *Adult beverages are an additional $9.99 charge, remaining alcohol contents must be dumped when exiting the ride. Alcohol refills limited to 2 per guest per day, additional $9.99 per refill. All other beverages $4.99/refill.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm one who believes a 5th gate makes sense long term, and maybe sooner if Epic Universe ends up significantly eating into Disney's share of the pie.

There's no such thing as "Disney's share of the pie."

The pie can grow..

 

[pdude81]

There's no such thing as "Disney's share of the pie."

The pie can grow..

Is it your opinion that a large chunk of people will now go to Orlando for vacations due to Epic Universe that wouldn't go otherwise? I think many of us made that assumption with SWGE and it didn't pan out. Now I'm open to this possibility, even if skeptical

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Is it your opinion that a large chunk of people will now go to Orlando for vacations due to Epic Universe that wouldn't go otherwise? I think many of us made that assumption with SWGE and it didn't pan out. Now I'm open to this possibility, even if skeptical

I don't know Universal's internal numbers, but my sense from the time I spent as a local is that they're heavily dependent on passholders, more similar to Disneyland in that respect that Walt Disney World. Yes, I think Epic Universe will sell a hell of a lot of Universal APs.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

They have blocked out a lot of cast members from the parks PARTS OF October.

Update on Cast access to the parks for October.

Magic Kingdom is blocked Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays, and Mondays.

Epcot is blocked Saturdays and Halloween.

Hollywood Studios is blocked Saturdays and Halloween.

Animal Kingdom is only blocked on Halloween.

So it's basically wide open for cast to visit as guests.

 

[Andrew25]

I don't know Universal's internal numbers, but my sense from the time I spent as a local is that they're heavily dependent on passholders, more similar to Disneyland in that respect that Walt Disney World. Yes, I think Epic Universe will sell a hell of a lot of Universal APs.

They are less dependent on passholders now then before, early park admission has been ridiculous since Endless Summer opened. They are taking advantage of Disney's missteps of their AP base.

 

[el_super]

I think that along with price increases at Disney may eat into market share for 2022.

The other side of this though, is Disney actively telling their investors that they want to reduce crowding in their parks because guest spending goes up with less people in the park. All of these moves by Disney are working toward increasing revenue by shedding some portion of their market share.

So it would seem silly for Universal to pin their success of Epic Universe on Disney's willingness to price out a bigger segment of the public. If that were true, Disney could sink them just by offering a coupon day.

 

[Lilofan]

Goodness. Generalize much?

Forum members share opinions just like yourself

 

[pdude81]

The other side of this though, is Disney actively telling their investors that they want to reduce crowding in their parks because guest spending goes up with less people in the park. All of these moves by Disney are working toward increasing revenue by shedding some portion of their market share.

So it would seem silly for Universal to pin their success of Epic Universe on Disney's willingness to price out a bigger segment of the public. If there were true, Disney could sink them just by offering a coupon day.

I see those as two different things. Universal offering people reduced price annual passes to get bodies through the gates while they build the new park, rather than tank attendance (which seems to happen at WDW when a new park is about to arrive, given graphs we saw earlier). Disney is going to drive people away in some cases with the increased pricing, but they are starting that process now as the competitor is preparing a new place for these people to go. And what we can't say for sure is how many people who typically pay the upcharges at WDW will now spend some time at Universal to differentiate the experience.

Anecdotally my family was going to WDW multiple times a year and never found a compelling enough reason to go to UO. That is, until we found out we could get 2 park Premier passes for half of what platinum AP cost at Disney, plus express pass after 4. Then we can use those same passes to get rooms at the hard rock for less than what it would cost to stay at AoA. Some people who never had any thought of spending their money elsewhere are now reevaluating future vacations.

 

[matt9112]

Seems important to point out that two of those major dips (90/91) and (01/02) were mostly driven by outside factors (First Gulf War and 9/11).




Well that should take care of the crowding problem then.

Makes them EVEN MORE vulnerable to outside factors. Also at some point they start competing with real trips..like europe etc. I think thats the biggest long term issue is that rich folks that are not swallowed up by the magic will simply see it as awful compared to other similar priced high end options around the world. There trying to cater to a wealthier segment but without the service they expect. Than you just have the portioning people might rather stay at a nicer resort off property even if they still come. Disney lost a portion of there vacation etc.

 

[matt9112]

There's no such thing as "Disney's share of the pie."

The pie can grow..

At some point the price point is so far apart they become two pies.

Update on Cast access to the parks for October.

Magic Kingdom is blocked Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays, and Mondays.

Epcot is blocked Saturdays and Halloween.

Hollywood Studios is blocked Saturdays and Halloween.

Animal Kingdom is only blocked on Halloween.

So it's basically wide open for cast to visit as guests.

Good thing people dont you know go out on saturdays or anything....wierd.

 

[el_super]

Universal offering people reduced price annual passes to get bodies through the gates while they build the new park, rather than tank attendance

Is there an expectation that Universal will dramatically raise prices to pay for the third park and the "value" of their offerings is only temporary?

Disney is going to drive people away in some cases with the increased pricing, but they are starting that process now as the competitor is preparing a new place for these people to go. And what we can't say for sure is how many people who typically pay the upcharges at WDW will now spend some time at Universal to differentiate the experience.

Yeah, but as I was saying, Disney is initiating some of the price increases because they feel that the product is undervalued. Or more generally, that people are willing to pay more for a better experience (less waiting/less planning). Universal wouldn't plan their financial future based on how many people Disney prices out. Universal would be better off accepting their niche place in the market and growing their revenue from the people who are already going to Universal. Their third park is going to increase visits and length of stay for the people they already have coming, not necessarily attract more people from Disney. And to be fair to Universal, that's exactly what I think they're doing.

And again, if Universal was pinning everyone on how many people Disney would drop in the future, Disney could easily destroy their plans just by lowering prices. If price is the one thing determining if someone goes to Universal over Disney, a lower price at Disney would pull people away from Universal, and completely invalidate their need for a third park. Universal would be betting far too much on Disney wanting to shed more of their audience. But again, I don't think that's what is happening.

Some people who never had any thought of spending their money elsewhere are now reevaluating future vacations.

This has been a common hope on boards like this for a long time. It's been decades now that people were claiming that any year now people would wake up and see that the value was lost at Disney and go elsewhere. And attendance has increased some 50% since then.

Disney is pretty smart at running their business, and if they were in any real danger of losing market share to Universal, they would adjust. It's what they are good at.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

If price is the one thing determining if someone goes to Universal over Disney, a lower price at Disney would pull people away from Universal, and completely invalidate their need for a third park.

Yup. If Disney jacked resort rates to $6,000 per night and admission to $500 per day, I'd stop going to Disney. But I wouldn't start going to Universal. I already know what Universal offers and I don't care for it.

 

[pdude81]

Is there an expectation that Universal will dramatically raise prices to pay for the third park and the "value" of their offerings is only temporary?




Yeah, but as I was saying, Disney is initiating some of the price increases because they feel that the product is undervalued. Or more generally, that people are willing to pay more for a better experience (less waiting/less planning). Universal wouldn't plan their financial future based on how many people Disney prices out. Universal would be better off accepting their niche place in the market and growing their revenue from the people who are already going to Universal. Their third park is going to increase visits and length of stay for the people they already have coming, not necessarily attract more people from Disney. And to be fair to Universal, that's exactly what I think they're doing.

And again, if Universal was pinning everyone on how many people Disney would drop in the future, Disney could easily destroy their plans just by lowering prices. If price is the one thing determining if someone goes to Universal over Disney, a lower price at Disney would pull people away from Universal, and completely invalidate their need for a third park. Universal would be betting far too much on Disney wanting to shed more of their audience. But again, I don't think that's what is happening.




This has been a common hope on boards like this for a long time. It's been decades now that people were claiming that any year now people would wake up and see that the value was lost at Disney and go elsewhere. And attendance has increased some 50% since then.

Disney is pretty smart at running their business, and if they were in any real danger of losing market share to Universal, they would adjust. It's what they are good at.

My central point is that I think Disney is still making decisions based on 2019.

Sure people have said for a long time that Disney's will start losing guests as they squeeze more blood from the stone and continue raising prices, but this is the first time we are seeing people actually change their behavior. Instead of "I'll just go to Universal" we're hearing "I just went to Universal".

Lowering prices would indicate their long term strategy is not working and hurt the stock, so they are left with incentives and discounts. But it's harder to win back business than it is to keep it in the first place. Again, I get where you're coming from, and I'm not leaving the brand. I'm just doing what they want and reducing my attendance.

 

[hopemax]

Universal wouldn't plan their financial future based on how many people Disney prices out. Universal would be better off accepting their niche place in the market and growing their revenue from the people who are already going to Universal. Their third park is going to increase visits and length of stay for the people they already have coming, not necessarily attract more people from Disney. And to be fair to Universal, that's exactly what I think they're doing.

Universal and Disney’s Length of Stay are entwined, both limited to the standard American vacation length. For now a 7-day vacation could be split with a 5 day WDW ticket, and a 1 or 2 day Universal park-to-park, especially to capture the Potter fans. I’ve been of the idea that part of WDWs recent growth is because of this dynamic. It only makes sense to go to WDW, if you are already going to Florida to spend 2 days at Universal. Any tickles in the back of the mind that WDW wasn't the same value could be assuaged by, "But we're also doing Potter." Families that weren’t too keen on Universal or Disney alone, could be swayed by the idea they could periodically do one week, gorge themselves on theme parks for the kids and do other things in other years. It was a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Universal as a potential 5-day destination upsets this. Americans can’t just do 5 and 5. They are still locked in to a week. If it becomes Universal 5, WDW 2 that’s a big hit to WDW, and the MK becomes a bigger mess as it’s selected by most people as one of the 2. Or worse for Disney, people have to choose one or the other. A decade ago realistically, Disney didn’t have to fear the choice, but with the perceived planning difficulties, price differential and Universal’s better overall reputation, I don’t think it’s as clear cut anymore. People may not want to choose, but they may not have a choice for time off and financial reasons.

Universal is planning on increasing LOS from existing Universal guests… by decreasing the time those people spend at WDW.

 

[el_super]

Universal is planning on increasing LOS from existing Universal guests… by decreasing the time those people spend at WDW.

Still doesn't make sense. Universal would be severely prone to Disney's pricing, which could ultimately hurt them or even force them out of the market entirely. That's just a bad business decision and I honestly don't think Universal is that dumb.

 

[el_super]

My central point is that I think Disney is still making decisions based on 2019.

They are trying to prevent the same crowding issues that were rampant in 2018/2019. So basically being proactive in this sense... preventing things from getting worse. Some of these decisions though were a long time coming.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

They are trying to prevent the same crowding issues that were rampant in 2018/2019. So basically being proactive in this sense... preventing things from getting worse. Some of these decisions though were a long time coming.

If you think they have any interest in reducing crowding, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[el_super]

If you think they have any interest in reducing crowding, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Did you see the news about the new Magic Keys reservation availability at Disneyland? Reducing crowding is absolutely what they are about right now.

 

[drizgirl]

Did you see the news about the new Magic Keys reservation availability at Disneyland? Reducing crowding is absolutely what they are about right now.

That is not proof of that. It could easily mean they prefer to keep space for full price tourists.