Labor cost cutting measures begin at Walt Disney World as the company enters Q1

[castlecake2.0]

If one is above or below middle-age...can one be wasted?

Yes one can, but from my hours and hours spent walking the promenade the main (and loudest) culprit the last few months seems to be the age group listed above

 

[Patcheslee]

Yup...we discussed splitting each drink between 3-4 people so everyone gets to try, but no one drinks too much.

Isn't the Celebration neighborhood of Epcot supposed to host the festivals once it's complete? I seem to recall a biergarten type area when they first introduced the plan.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Isn't the Celebration neighborhood of Epcot supposed to host the festivals once it's complete? I seem to recall a biergarten type area when they first introduced the plan.

I think that part got scrapped.

 

[Lilofan]

Yes one can, but from my hours and hours spent walking the promenade the main (and loudest) culprit the last few months seems to be the age group listed above

Can't see the seniors group on a retirement budget ( or not ) enjoying Food and Wine in the heat and humidity of summer or the younger set ( not the greatest in terms of high percentage of getting vaccinated ) and probably monetary issues so enter - middle class enjoying themselves for the moment.

 

[pdude81]

I'm one who believes a 5th gate makes sense long term, and maybe sooner if Epic Universe ends up significantly eating into Disney's share of the pie. But they sure have a ways to go to open things back up and get more operational capacity in the existing parks, so that they can increase the number of guests without people feeling ripped off by pay-per-ride systems. An operations WoL pavilion and a worthy refurb/redesign of Imagination would go a long way in Epcot given that Guardians is already coming, and honestly there is an insane amount of space to work with at DAK should they choose to make the train have 2 stops, one at RPW and one in some massive new land or two on the other side of the road. DHS has some problems but seems to eat up enough people these days. Then at least when you're charging for Genie+, it's a reasonable consideration at all 4 parks.

 

[mikejs78]

I’m not optimistic. Families are coming to WDW in lower numbers than usual (and they already came less in the fall), so I’d expect more of the same for awhile.

My prediction is families start coming back towards the holidays and into 2022.

 

[el_super]

Profit....the reason they do that is legitimately the reason you claim they spend capx at all.

I don't think it's intentional. They went from spending 100M on a new attraction in the 90s to 400-500 million now. At this level we're seeing how difficult it is to justify spending $400 million on a new attraction, when that money could go to two new Marvel movies, or a couple of Disney+ series. A marvel movie will make it's money back in 3 years, but a parks attraction will take 20+ years return it's investment. That's a tough sell to the BOD.

 

[drizgirl]

Can't see the seniors group on a retirement budget ( or not ) enjoying Food and Wine in the heat and humidity of summer or the younger set ( not the greatest in terms of high percentage of getting vaccinated ) and probably monetary issues so enter - middle class enjoying themselves for the moment.

Goodness. Generalize much?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I don't think it's intentional. They went from spending 100M on a new attraction in the 90s to 400-500 million now. At this level we're seeing how difficult it is to justify spending $400 million on a new attraction, when that money could go to two new Marvel movies, or a couple of Disney+ series. A marvel movie will make it's money back in 3 years, but a parks attraction will take 20+ years return it's investment. That's a tough sell to the BOD.

Then the BoD needs to be educated on how theme parks and resorts work.

 

[el_super]

I'm one who believes a 5th gate makes sense long term, and maybe sooner if Epic Universe ends up significantly eating into Disney's share of the pie.

It's been a long time since I got into any of these numbers for Florida, but I thought the conventional wisdom was that more gates = increased length of stay. It doesn't seem possible that WDW's average length of stay could really increase further beyond what it already is, but I suppose another gate might work to move crowds around. But we would be talking billions in investment, a decade of development and no real path for financial return to do so.

I'm not at all sure what Universal's plan is with the third park. I'd imagine that they feel comfortable in their niche of clientel priced out of Disney and at this point it isn't so much about stealing market share as it is about also increasing length of stay at their resorts.

 

[el_super]

Then the BoD needs to be educated on how theme parks and resorts work.

Their theme parks are the gold standard across the globe. The highest attended and the biggest money makers on the planet. What exactly do you think they need to be educated on?

 

[matt9112]

I don't think it's intentional. They went from spending 100M on a new attraction in the 90s to 400-500 million now. At this level we're seeing how difficult it is to justify spending $400 million on a new attraction, when that money could go to two new Marvel movies, or a couple of Disney+ series. A marvel movie will make it's money back in 3 years, but a parks attraction will take 20+ years return it's investment. That's a tough sell to the BOD.

Certain segments will run different profit margins. Car dealerships make different margins on selling cars vs service etc.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think what @ParentsOf4 is saying makes sense, and they have certainly provided evidence that suggests a new one is required.

Must admit, though, I am with those who think they need to build out their existing parks and try to address overcrowding through increased capacity. It would be nice if their next big initiative was to build capacity across the parks, identifying areas that were basically lying vacant and developing a program of smaller attractions with a few E-tickets sprinkled in. It would seem more efficient to essentially add a new park's worth of capacity across the resort that used the existing infrastructure.

I suspect a concern for Disney is also the greater difficulty they have to adjust to changing circumstances the bigger the resort gets. Hotels are a little easier to close in whole or part, but another theme park and all the infrastructure to go with it represents more exposure in the event of a future pandemic, economic downturn, war, etc. Wasn't this the reason Steve Jobs suggested to Iger they should sell the parks?

I also think building a fifth gate would balloon attendance far beyond what opening any new attraction does, and it would be a permanent increase rather than a short-term one.

There's a decent chance it would make parks like DHS and EPCOT even worse in the long run if they didn't also build them out.

 

[UNCgolf]

Their theme parks are the gold standard across the globe. The highest attended and the biggest money makers on the planet. What exactly do you think they need to be educated on?

They're not that way because of anything done by the current management, though.

I'm not necessarily saying they need to be educated, but they also don't deserve credit for something in which they played little to no part.

 

[el_super]

Here's what happened to WDW per theme park attendance thru 2019:

Seems important to point out that two of those major dips (90/91) and (01/02) were mostly driven by outside factors (First Gulf War and 9/11).

Disney's recent price increases and service cuts (FP+, MDE, MB, etc.) are driving Guests away in droves.

Well that should take care of the crowding problem then.

 

[carnini]

Sounds like its hard to pinpoint on whats going on.
I do have to agree with

ParentsOf4 said:
Disney's recent price increases and service cuts (FP+, MDE, MB, etc.) are driving Guests away in droves.

My family is heading to FL next month for a almost week long vacation to get away. In the past Disney would have been top on our list to go to several days. Due to price increases it looks like well hit the park only 1 days and we are staying offsite. We have been many times so we know what use to come with staying on site and being in the parks and its just not there anymore and many people have a similar view, they have been priced out.

 

[el_super]

They're not that way because of anything done by the current management, though.

Literally if the current management's only edict was to keep the current attraction roster at MK as-is for the next 20 years, that would be doing something.

 

[Rickcat96]

Disney has a serious cash problem right now, current state wreaks of the straw grasping. thinking everyone is finically busting at the seams to go give it to them. Its backfiring, even with a discount-its still way to much for folks to justify stays folks had at pre-pandemic prices.

 

[pdude81]

It's been a long time since I got into any of these numbers for Florida, but I thought the conventional wisdom was that more gates = increased length of stay. It doesn't seem possible that WDW's average length of stay could really increase further beyond what it already is, but I suppose another gate might work to move crowds around. But we would be talking billions in investment, a decade of development and no real path for financial return to do so.

I'm not at all sure what Universal's plan is with the third park. I'd imagine that they feel comfortable in their niche of clientel priced out of Disney and at this point it isn't so much about stealing market share as it is about also increasing length of stay at their resorts.

I think it remains to be seen what effect Epic Universe has on vacation plans and habits. I believe conventional wisdom on theme park guest behavior led to the stagnation at the parks we see today. I also believe that many people have changed their behavior in the wake of covid and and are now looking for more new experiences than just new rides.

Separate from the new park, during the fall/winter covid wave, Universal brought in a lot of AP sales at a low cost while Disney refused to sell any and then drastically raised prices. Also they dropped reservation requirements much sooner, so people got a taste of the competition and their kids that may have never went to Universal now want to know when they can go back to see Harry Potter land. I think that along with price increases at Disney may eat into market share for 2022.

Now Epic Universe has the potential to make people spend their entire week at Universal instead of splitting off a few days from WDW or just staying at WDW the whole time. Nintendo is a huge property for nostalgia as well as current gaming so that will be a major draw. I suspect that Disney will need a major announcement to compete for the "new hotness" business. Play! Pavilion is not it. Sure Guardians and Tron are cool, but they'll be old news by the time EU opens. I'd love to see a "Forest Moon of Endor" land at DHS and I think Kashyyyk could fit in at DAK as well as Pandora did. A new land with old trilogy characters may do the trick, but if Epic Universe turns out to be the best/most visited park in Florida it could take years for Disney to turn that ship around.

 

[fgmnt]

They should never build a fifth park.

If Disney ever builds another gate in North America, it won't be in Orlando or Anaheim. Makes no sense. I'm not telling you that we will be talking About Disneyland Austin in 2035, but we definitely won't be talking about Disney Studios Anaheim or Disney's Florida Adventure.