LA Times: Is Disney Paying Its Fair Share In Anaheim

21stamps

Well-Known Member
This argument is speculative, at best. Using it to dissuade support for wage growth is selfish and icky, in my opinion.

Obviously this isn’t exact.. but here’s the annual cost to Disney if 20,000 employees received a raise of $7 per hour..overtime not included in this figure.

2A19D05E-4954-48A7-ACD1-DB8DF6015239.jpeg


Do you think they would just eat that, (or whatever the correct number is) in profits?
 

kevlightyear

Well-Known Member
Obviously this isn’t exact.. but here’s the annual cost to Disney if 20,000 employees received a raise of $7 per hour..overtime not included in this figure.

View attachment 268982

Do you think they would just eat that, (or whatever the correct number is) in profits?
I make no assumptions as to how Disney will react. As Darkbeer is not in a position to influence how they will react, his assumption was speculative. That was my point. Trying to 'scare' people away from raising the minimum wage by making them think they will suffer is (in my opinion) icky.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/seattles-minimum-wage-hike-may-have-gone-too-far/

>>
Seattle, with its highest-in-the-country minimum wage,1 may have hit that limit.

In January 2016, Seattle’s minimum wage jumped from $11 an hour to $13 for large employers, the second big increase in less than a year. New research released Monday by a team of economists at the University of Washington suggests the wage hike may have come at a significant cost: The increase led to steep declines in employment for low-wage workers, and a drop in hours for those who kept their jobs. Crucially, the negative impact of lost jobs and hours more than offset the benefits of higher wages — on average, low-wage workers earned $125 per month less because of the higher wage, a small but significant decline.

“The goal of this policy was to deliver higher incomes to people who were struggling to make ends meet in the city,” said Jacob Vigdor, a University of Washington economist who was one of the study’s authors. “You’ve got to watch out because at some point you run the risk of harming the people you set out to help.”<<

And the actual Working Paper...

https://evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/NBER Working Paper.pdf
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
http://time.com/4608394/15-dollar-minimum-wage-eitc/

>>
Around the country, the Fight for $15 campaign continues to advocate for minimum wages of $15. Several states and large cities, including Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York and Washington, D.C., have passed such minimum wage ordinances, which will phase in over several years. The worthy goal is to help low-income workers earn a better living.

But there are a few problems with this logic. For one, most minimum wage earners are not poor adults. They are, instead, young people (ages 16 to 24) or second earners in families where a spouse has a higher-wage job. So minimum wage increases help some poor heads of households, but are not well-targeted on them.

More importantly, by making unskilled workers so expensive for employers to hire, minimum wage increases can reduce employment among the very groups we are trying to help. When the minimum wage increases are moderate in size—up to, say, $10 an hour—such employment losses are very small, so the likely tradeoff between higher wage levels and lower employment becomes worthwhile.

But when the minimum rises so dramatically, we will likely see much larger employment losses among young or low-income workers. The hard truth is that too many of them have too few skills to merit such high wages, at least in the eyes of prospective employers. Some (particularly immigrants) might instead be hired off the books, and paid in cash, while many more will lose employment entirely.

Over long periods of time, employers facing such high wages might turn to automation—say, using robots in fast-food restaurants or coffee shops—more quickly than they otherwise would. In other cases, they will likely relocate to lower-wage states or localities, as employers in Washington, D.C. threaten to do when Virginia is becoming a much cheaper place to do business.

All of this is to say: The increase helps fairly few of the people most in need, and it could badly hurt at least some of them.<<
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
As for what will happen, I have strong ties to many business owners/operators in the Anaheim Resort area. The discussions have been going on for the last couple of years, when California raised the minimum wage back in 2016 to become $15 a hour in 2023.

All contracts negotiated after that took that new law into consideration. They also started to shift workers jobs and descriptions of the job to be able to do more with less workers.

They also started to invest in equipment to reduce staff. Hotel Chains now going to door locks that can use a smart phone or a specific credit card to open the room and bypass the front desk... Was that for the customer, well, it was presented that way, but in reality, the cost of the new system actually saves the company money after a short time to recoup the costs.

The unions are scared of the upcoming Supreme Court ruling that would curtail its political spending, and trying to do what they can to keep collecting the union dues that pay for all the goodies Union Management gets.

And as we have seen in California so far, the costs of everything has risen as compared to the rest of the nation. So while you might make a bit more, it doesn't spend as well.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Let me add one more good example, and that was Obamacare and how it forced many employees to get less than 30 hours a week to prevent the employer from picking up the insurance costs...

https://my.vanderbilt.edu/carolynhe...ffects-ACA-on-Part-time-employment-6-9-16.pdf

>>
Effects of the Affordable Care Act on Part-Time Employment: Early Evidence

June 2016
Marcus Dillender Carolyn Heinrich Susan Houseman Upjohn Institute Vanderbilt University Upjohn Institute


Abstract

The Affordable Care Act (ACA) requires employers with at least 50 full-time-equivalent employees to offer “affordable” health insurance to employees working 30 or more hours per week. If employers do not comply with the mandate, they may face substantial financial penalties. Employers can potentially circumvent the mandate by reducing weekly hours below the 30-hour threshold or by using other nonstandard employment arrangements (direct-hire temporaries, agency temporaries, small contractors, and independent contractors). We examine the effects of the ACA on short-hours, part-time employment. Using monthly CPS data, we estimate that the ACA resulted in an increase in low-hours, involuntary part-time employment of a half-million to a million workers in retail, accommodations, and food services, the sectors in which employers are most likely to reduce hours if they choose to circumvent the mandate, and also the sectors in which low-wage workers are most likely to be affected. Our empirical strategy uses as a control group Hawaii, which has had a more stringent employer health insurance mandate than that of the ACA for several decades. The findings are robust to placebo tests and alternative specifications. <<
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
Since this has turned into one man's anti democrat pulpit, it might be time to move it to the politics forum.

To address the question of how an increased minimum wage would affect the economy, the studies are mixed. Multiple studies have been done on Seattle and while one was negative another was not. "The Berkeley study focused on the restaurant industry because of the high proportion of restaurant workers who are paid the minimum wage. It found that for every 10 percent that the minimum wage rose, wages in the industry rose nearly 1 percent, and that there was no discernible effect on employment. It supports the conclusion of numerous studies before it, that increasing the minimum wage up to a level that is about half or less of an area’s typical wage leads to at most a small reduction in employment."

Study report is here:

http://irle.berkeley.edu/files/2017/Seattles-Minimum-Wage-Experiences-2015-16.pdf

I won't use the dirty word "living wage" but Europe treats their employees much better than in America. We aren't just talking about pay either. Benefits including vacation and health are much better and they strive for work life balance. The result is a slightly higher price to consumers, but workers enjoy a much better quality of life, are healthier, and there is no doomsday scenario that skeptics of a higher wage believe. Meanwhile American's are overworked, stressed out, and generally in poor health both mentally and physically.

There is a benefit to everyone to increase the purchasing power of the lower class (except maybe the Bob Iger's of the world.)
 

Ismael Flores

Well-Known Member
Maybe Its just me but i don’t see things only as black or white. Each political party has their sensible ideas as well some that just don’t make sense at all
I also don’t see how this has turned into a one mans anti Democrat pulpit.

I vote democrat and I even see that huge minimum wage hikes have significant drawbacks

I think Darkbeer is just pointing out what many pro huge minimum wage hike advocates just don’t want to see.
 
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JD2000

Well-Known Member
I am convinced more severe raises to minimum wage is only good for everyone; business and the average citizen. But until everyone comes to acknowledge this, it is only going to continue this kind of division. But this is truly a discussion that should be had in the political forum. I appreciate everyone's contributions though, now and in the past.

:)
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Let's look at this from another angle.

This proposition is targeting the Disneyland Resort in Anaheim.

Why don't we target Amazon, who supposedly didn'y pay taxes last year?

Pass a bill saying Amazon must raise the wages to $3 more than all their competitors. Let all the retail stores still be allowed to pay the state minimum wage (except Whole Foods, which charges more for their items, so they should pay more).

Why do the citizens have the right to tell someone else how to run their business?

The union has the right to strike if they don't like the offer that Disney is offering as a pay package. If Disney feels there are enough job applicants willing to accept the wage package without being in the union, then Disney should have the freedom to say no to the union. The Union is not running the business, it seems all they want is higher dues to pad their current company. And aren't most unions just that, a separate company?

https://www.unionfacts.com/lu/507066/UNITHE/11/

Anyone who gets a city subsidy from the city of Anaheim, entered into a deal with the city, where both parties were looking to get something. For example, the city was looking for someone who would invest in the city, provide jobs, help improve the cities infrastructure, reducing pollution and traffic concerns, draw customers who would not just spend at the one business, but many other businesses in the city, bringing in additional tax dollars in increased spending, etc. The companies agreed to what the city was asking for, and a signed contract was made between the two parties, and agreed to by the city council and/or the citizens. (Such as the vote in the 1990's agreeing to the TOT increase).

Now, one side wants to change the contract. (What many would say is binding).

So what is the Fair Share a company has to pay a city?

And then who loses? Many pension funds rely on their investment in Disney to pay benefits to its employees.... California Public Employees' Retirement System, Sacramento; New York State Common Retirement Fund, Albany; American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Pension Plan, Washington; and Illinois State Board of Investment, Chicago are three major shareholders.

So does the city of Anaheim have the right to reduce the pensions of those who work in Sacramento, or since the pensions are guaranteed, making all California taxpayers pay more to benefit Anaheim?

Yes, many Disney jobs are entry level and designed for someone who is a student, a retiree, a second income, etc. The jobs are not meant to be the sole source of income for a family. They are designed for those who want more flexible hours, learn skills, build up a resume by showing good work habits as showing up on time, following rules, etc. Then that person can opt to pursue other options, such as moving up into management, getting a college degree, going to trade school, finding a job in another industry, etc.

Alas, to the Union, that means they lose the member if they go into management or leave the company, something that they don't want.

So basically the citizens are telling a company that they shouldn't offer these type of jobs, and only offer full-time positions with lots of responsibilities, and even if they fail fulfilling those job requirements which include promoting the health of the company and making more profits for the investors, that they can not be fired due to the union.

Also, who comes up with the standard of a "living wage". Does everybody have the right to have a smart phone, a nice car, their own apartment without roommates or a partner to share in the costs, $200 pair of shoes, an unlimited moviepass, Netflix, Hula, etc.

People do things to start their career, many pick the military since they offer benefits as education, and being taught job skills. Some opt for college to get a degree, some opt for a trade school to learn a trade in professions like the building trades, or the medical field.

Should we have some sort of tired wage program, where those students under a certain age, where they are still expected to live with their family (18, 25?) are eligible for a lower wage, how about a senior already getting pension and/or social security checks, how about the second partner who opted to have a child, and only wants a part time second income to go along with raising a child.

Maybe anyone who wants to be a professional athlete or a movie celebrity should get a higher wage, no matter their skill level?

How about giving everyone a house on the ocean?

America and the Constitution is about freedoms and the right to achieve the American Dream. But that means those willing to work hard, take risks, can get rewarded for their achievements. By earning those achievements do you get the nice car, house, lifestyle.

That is why people take risks, such as trying to be a professional athlete, a professional singer, a head of a business, a doctor, a general contractor, etc.

Companies like Disney also take risks, not every movie or TV show is a hit, nor is everything a Theme Park offers is a hit (think DCA 1.0 and even 2.0, DLP, etc.) Walt Disney bet the "farm" multiple times. and he struck out more than once. But he picked himself up, and tried again until he got it right.

Disneyland could have easily failed, and many folks thought that it would. When Walt was proven right, a lot of folks came on board, both directly and in-directly to help improve the park, and the surrounding area. The city of Anaheim decided to join that group in the 1960's and opted to grow the Tourism base in the 1960's, starting with the Convention Center, then professional Sports Teams, and the need for Hotels, restaurants, shops to support them. Add laundry service, food distributors, construction companies, transportation needs, etc. All creating jobs and tax revenue and growing the city. That brought new Hospitals, Housing, shops and services to support those things, etc.

The city revenues have been going up and up, especially in the last decade or so due to those investment in the Resort area. But for some reason, the city has decided to spend at a higher amount than the increased revenues. And those who want the government to spend more now wants to take away from those who also invested, worked hard, and built the growth in income and jobs that they created.

So the city got what they wanted from the city subsides, and are continuing to do so. I live in West Anaheim, and our section of Beach Boulevard is not very nice, especially compared to the Buena Park section that has Knott's Berry Farm, the hotels, the Dinner Theaters, the upcoming Butterfly Pavilion and new Source Shoppertainment Mall. There are plans to improve it, but it will require city subsidies to get it done. (Similar to what Buena Park did over the last couple of decades to improve its section of Beach Blvd.)

But for some reason, the Unions along with some city of Anaheim leaders, want to try and punish those who agreed to work with the city to achieve those goals, and force everyone to become a union employee in those areas, such as the Hotels.

Unions should be an option, not a requirement. Employees should be offered a chance to Unionize, but also have the option to not join, especially when a large percentage of union dues are spent on political activities, which many union employees do not support.

The proposed proposition if passed would cause many lawsuits, and could end up costing the city so much that it could force it into bankruptcy (repayment of costs in voiding contracts made). Where would that leave the city of Anaheim?

The proposal is so wrong on so many levels, but is mainly a political play to try and change the political climate in not just the city, but the region. And none of it would help the issues we face in homelessness, lack of housing, need for more and better roads, rising pension liabilities, need for more criminal prosecution and the ability to place those who need to be placed in jails and prisons, etc.

I have always believed in Working Hard to be able to play hard, I have always worked, from my first legal job at 12, at $1 an hour in a approved job with specific hours, and have never stopped working while also gaining my education including college. I have worked multiple jobs, and 80 hour work weeks are normal for me. I have earned a nice life, and get to enjoy it. But there are those who now want to take more and more from me in taxes and government fees. Plus they want to also cut down on my ability to drive, change my housing situation, reduce my investment income, which I have planned on to live the rest of my life, have me spend more on private security measures due to increased crime. I am paying more and getting less.

I am looking into an investment on Beach Blvd in West Anaheim, and if this proposition passes, I will guarantee you that I won't move forward, nor would my partners. And that means a loss of jobs, that would have been at multiple levels, including some that could be described as an apprenticeship or intern, not much money(wages) at first, but a chance to move into a much higher pay if successful.

I benefitted from that type of learning, and would love to give the opportunity to others starting out. But I can't risk my "pension" income if not assured that I would at least be able to get some return so I could pay my bills.

But you can't have "starting wage" be a true "living wage" for that to happen. A basic wage should be that, something that covers the very basic things. And for those who want a living wage, well, they can learn a skill that would earn one. A plumber might not be glamorous, might not be a fun job, but it is a needed profession, and gets the wage it deserves.
 
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21stamps

Well-Known Member
Let's look at this from another angle.

This proposition is targeting the Disneyland Resort in Anaheim.

Why don't we target Amazon, who supposedly didn'y pay taxes last year?

Pass a bill saying Amazon must raise the wages to $3 more than all their competitors. Let all the retail stores still be allowed to pay the state minimum wage (except Whole Foods, which chargers more for their items, so they should pay more).

Why do the citizens have the right to tell someone else how to run their business?

The union has the right to strike if they don't like the offer that Disney is offering as a pay package. If Disney feels their are enough job applicants willing to accept the wage package without being in the union, then Disney should have the freedom to say no to the union. The Union is not running the business, it seems all they want is higher dues to pad their current company. And aren't most unions just that, a separate company?

https://www.unionfacts.com/lu/507066/UNITHE/11/

Anyone who gets a city subsidy from the city of Anaheim, entered into a deal with the city, where both parties were looking to get something. For example, the city was looking for someone who would invest in the city, provide jobs, help improve the cities infrastructure, reducing pollution and traffic concerns, draw customers who would not just spend at the one business, but many other businesses in the city, bringing in additional tax dollars in increased spending, etc. The companies agreed to what the city was asking for, and a signed contract was made between the two parties, and agreed to by the city council and/or the citizens. (Such as the vote in the 1990's agreeing to the TOT increase).

Now, one side wants to change the contract. (What many would say is binding).

So what is the Fair Share a company has to pay a city?

And then who loses? Many pension funds rely on their investment in Disney to pay benefits to its employees.... California Public Employees' Retirement System, Sacramento; New York State Common Retirement Fund, Albany; American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Pension Plan, Washington; and Illinois State Board of Investment, Chicago are three major shareholders.

So does the city of Anaheim have the right to reduce the pensions of those who work in Sacramento, or since the pensions are guaranteed, making all California taxpayers pay more to benefit Anaheim?

Yes, many Disney jobs are entry level and designed for someone who is a student, a retiree, a second income, etc. The jobs are not meant to be the sole source of income for a family. They are designed for those who want more flexible hours, learn skills, build up a resume by showing good work habits as showing up on time, following rules, etc. The that person can opt to pursue other options, such as moving up into management, getting a college degree, going to trade school, finding a job in another industry, etc.

Alas, to the Union, that means they lose the member if they go into management or leave the company, something that they don't want.

So basically the citizens are telling a company that they shouldn't offer these type of jobs, and only offer full-time positions with lots of responsibilities, and even if they fail fulfilling those job requirements which include promoting the health of the company and making more profits for the investors, that they can not be fired due to the union.

Also, who comes up with the standard of a "living wage". Does everybody have the right to have a smart phone, a nice car, their own apartment without roommates or a partner to share in the costs, $200 pair of shoes, an unlimited moviepass, Netflix, Hula, etc.

People do things to start their career, many pick the military since they offer benefits as education, and being taught job skills. Some opt for college to get a degree, some opt for a trade school to learn a trade in professions like the building trades, or the medical field.

Should we have some sort of tired wage program, where those students under a certain age, where they are still expected to live with their family (18, 25?) are eligible for a lower wage, how about a senior already getting pension and/or social security checks, how about the second partner who opted to have a child, and only wants a part time second income to go along with raising a child.

Maybe anyone who wants to be a professional athlete or a movie celebrity should get a higher wage, no matter their skill level?

How about giving everyone a house on the ocean?

America and the Constitution is about freedoms and the right to achieve the American Dream. But that means those willing to work hard, take risks, can get rewarded for their achievements. By earning those achievements do you get the nice car, house, lifestyle.

That is why people take risks, such as trying to be a professional athlete, a professional singer, a head of a business, a doctor, a general contractor, etc.

Companies like Disney also take risks, not every movie or TV show is a hit, nor is everything a Theme Park offers is a hit (think DCA 1.0 and even 2.0, DLP, etc.) Walt Disney bet the "farm" multiple times. and he struck out more than once. But he picked himself up, and tried again until he got it right.

Disneyland could have easily failed, and many folks thought that it would. When Walt was proven right, a lot of folks came on board, both directly and in-directly to help improve the park, and the surrounding area. The city of Anaheim decided to join that group in the 1960's and opted to grow the Tourism base in the 1960's, starting with the Convention Center, then professional Sports Teams, and the need for Hotels, restaurants, shops to support them. Add laundry service, food distributors, construction companies, transportation needs, etc. All creating jobs and tax revenue and growing the city. That brought new Hospitals, Housing, shops and services to support those things, etc.

The city revenues have been going up and up, especially in the last decade or so due to those investment in the Resort area. But for some reason, the city has decided to spend at a higher amount than the increased revenues. And those who want the government to spend more now wants to take away from those who also invested, worked hard, and built the growth in income and jobs that they created.

So the city got what they wanted from the city subsides, and are continuing to do so. I live in West Anaheim, and our section of Beach Boulevard is not very nice, especially compared to the Buena Park section that has Knott's Berry Farm, the hotels, the Dinner Theaters, the upcoming Butterfly Pavilion and new Source Shoppertainment Mall. There are plans to improve it, but it will require city subsidies to get it done. (Similar to what Buena Park did over the last couple of decades to improve its section of Beach Blvd.)

But for some reason, the Unions along with some city of Anaheim leaders, want to try and punish those who agreed to work with the city to achieve those goals, and force everyone to become a union employee in those areas, such as the Hotels.

Unions should be an option, not a requirement. Employees should be offered a chance to Unionize, but also have the option to not join, especially when a large percentage of union dues are spent on political activities, which many union employees do not support.

The proposed proposition if passed would cause many lawsuits, and could end up costing the city so much that it could force it into bankruptcy (repayment of costs in voiding contracts made). Where would that leave the city of Anaheim?

The proposal is so wrong on so many levels, but is mainly a political play to try and change the political climate in not just the city, but the region. And none of it would help the issues we face in homelessness, lack of housing, need for more and better roads, rising pension liabilities, need for more criminal prosecution and the ability to place those who need to be placed in jails and prisons, etc.

I have always believed in Working Hard to be able to play hard, I have always worked, from my first legal job at 12, at $1 an hour in a approved job with specific hours, and have never stopped working while also gaining my education including college. I have worked multiple jobs, and 80 hour work weeks are normal for me. I have earned a nice life, and get to enjoy it. But there are those who now want to take more and more from me in taxes and government fees. Plus they want to also cut down on my ability to drive, change my housing situation, reduce my investment income, which I have planned on to live the rest of my life, have me spend more on private security measures due to increased crime. I am paying more and getting less.

I am looking into an investment on Beach Blvd in West Anaheim, and if this proposition passes, I will guarantee you that I won't move forward, nor would my partners. And that means a loss of jobs, that would have been at multiple levels, including some that could be described as an apprenticeship or intern, not much money(wages) at first, but a chance to move into a much higher pay if successful.

I benefitted from that type of learning, and would love to give the opportunity to others starting out. But I can't risk my "pension" income if not assured that I would at least be able to get some return so I could pay my bills.

But you can't have "starting wage" be a true "living wage" for that to happen. A basic wage should be that, something that covers the very basic things. And for those who want a living wage, well, they can learn a skill that would earn one. A plumber might not be glamorous, might not be a fun job, but it is a needed profession, and gets the wage it deserves.

Well said. All of it.
 

Ismael Flores

Well-Known Member
Let's look at this from another angle.

This proposition is targeting the Disneyland Resort in Anaheim.

Why don't we target Amazon, who supposedly didn'y pay taxes last year?

Pass a bill saying Amazon must raise the wages to $3 more than all their competitors. Let all the retail stores still be allowed to pay the state minimum wage (except Whole Foods, which chargers more for their items, so they should pay more).

Why do the citizens have the right to tell someone else how to run their business?

The union has the right to strike if they don't like the offer that Disney is offering as a pay package. If Disney feels their are enough job applicants willing to accept the wage package without being in the union, then Disney should have the freedom to say no to the union. The Union is not running the business, it seems all they want is higher dues to pad their current company. And aren't most unions just that, a separate company?

https://www.unionfacts.com/lu/507066/UNITHE/11/

Anyone who gets a city subsidy from the city of Anaheim, entered into a deal with the city, where both parties were looking to get something. For example, the city was looking for someone who would invest in the city, provide jobs, help improve the cities infrastructure, reducing pollution and traffic concerns, draw customers who would not just spend at the one business, but many other businesses in the city, bringing in additional tax dollars in increased spending, etc. The companies agreed to what the city was asking for, and a signed contract was made between the two parties, and agreed to by the city council and/or the citizens. (Such as the vote in the 1990's agreeing to the TOT increase).

Now, one side wants to change the contract. (What many would say is binding).

So what is the Fair Share a company has to pay a city?

And then who loses? Many pension funds rely on their investment in Disney to pay benefits to its employees.... California Public Employees' Retirement System, Sacramento; New York State Common Retirement Fund, Albany; American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Pension Plan, Washington; and Illinois State Board of Investment, Chicago are three major shareholders.

So does the city of Anaheim have the right to reduce the pensions of those who work in Sacramento, or since the pensions are guaranteed, making all California taxpayers pay more to benefit Anaheim?

Yes, many Disney jobs are entry level and designed for someone who is a student, a retiree, a second income, etc. The jobs are not meant to be the sole source of income for a family. They are designed for those who want more flexible hours, learn skills, build up a resume by showing good work habits as showing up on time, following rules, etc. The that person can opt to pursue other options, such as moving up into management, getting a college degree, going to trade school, finding a job in another industry, etc.

Alas, to the Union, that means they lose the member if they go into management or leave the company, something that they don't want.

So basically the citizens are telling a company that they shouldn't offer these type of jobs, and only offer full-time positions with lots of responsibilities, and even if they fail fulfilling those job requirements which include promoting the health of the company and making more profits for the investors, that they can not be fired due to the union.

Also, who comes up with the standard of a "living wage". Does everybody have the right to have a smart phone, a nice car, their own apartment without roommates or a partner to share in the costs, $200 pair of shoes, an unlimited moviepass, Netflix, Hula, etc.

People do things to start their career, many pick the military since they offer benefits as education, and being taught job skills. Some opt for college to get a degree, some opt for a trade school to learn a trade in professions like the building trades, or the medical field.

Should we have some sort of tired wage program, where those students under a certain age, where they are still expected to live with their family (18, 25?) are eligible for a lower wage, how about a senior already getting pension and/or social security checks, how about the second partner who opted to have a child, and only wants a part time second income to go along with raising a child.

Maybe anyone who wants to be a professional athlete or a movie celebrity should get a higher wage, no matter their skill level?

How about giving everyone a house on the ocean?

America and the Constitution is about freedoms and the right to achieve the American Dream. But that means those willing to work hard, take risks, can get rewarded for their achievements. By earning those achievements do you get the nice car, house, lifestyle.

That is why people take risks, such as trying to be a professional athlete, a professional singer, a head of a business, a doctor, a general contractor, etc.

Companies like Disney also take risks, not every movie or TV show is a hit, nor is everything a Theme Park offers is a hit (think DCA 1.0 and even 2.0, DLP, etc.) Walt Disney bet the "farm" multiple times. and he struck out more than once. But he picked himself up, and tried again until he got it right.

Disneyland could have easily failed, and many folks thought that it would. When Walt was proven right, a lot of folks came on board, both directly and in-directly to help improve the park, and the surrounding area. The city of Anaheim decided to join that group in the 1960's and opted to grow the Tourism base in the 1960's, starting with the Convention Center, then professional Sports Teams, and the need for Hotels, restaurants, shops to support them. Add laundry service, food distributors, construction companies, transportation needs, etc. All creating jobs and tax revenue and growing the city. That brought new Hospitals, Housing, shops and services to support those things, etc.

The city revenues have been going up and up, especially in the last decade or so due to those investment in the Resort area. But for some reason, the city has decided to spend at a higher amount than the increased revenues. And those who want the government to spend more now wants to take away from those who also invested, worked hard, and built the growth in income and jobs that they created.

So the city got what they wanted from the city subsides, and are continuing to do so. I live in West Anaheim, and our section of Beach Boulevard is not very nice, especially compared to the Buena Park section that has Knott's Berry Farm, the hotels, the Dinner Theaters, the upcoming Butterfly Pavilion and new Source Shoppertainment Mall. There are plans to improve it, but it will require city subsidies to get it done. (Similar to what Buena Park did over the last couple of decades to improve its section of Beach Blvd.)

But for some reason, the Unions along with some city of Anaheim leaders, want to try and punish those who agreed to work with the city to achieve those goals, and force everyone to become a union employee in those areas, such as the Hotels.

Unions should be an option, not a requirement. Employees should be offered a chance to Unionize, but also have the option to not join, especially when a large percentage of union dues are spent on political activities, which many union employees do not support.

The proposed proposition if passed would cause many lawsuits, and could end up costing the city so much that it could force it into bankruptcy (repayment of costs in voiding contracts made). Where would that leave the city of Anaheim?

The proposal is so wrong on so many levels, but is mainly a political play to try and change the political climate in not just the city, but the region. And none of it would help the issues we face in homelessness, lack of housing, need for more and better roads, rising pension liabilities, need for more criminal prosecution and the ability to place those who need to be placed in jails and prisons, etc.

I have always believed in Working Hard to be able to play hard, I have always worked, from my first legal job at 12, at $1 an hour in a approved job with specific hours, and have never stopped working while also gaining my education including college. I have worked multiple jobs, and 80 hour work weeks are normal for me. I have earned a nice life, and get to enjoy it. But there are those who now want to take more and more from me in taxes and government fees. Plus they want to also cut down on my ability to drive, change my housing situation, reduce my investment income, which I have planned on to live the rest of my life, have me spend more on private security measures due to increased crime. I am paying more and getting less.

I am looking into an investment on Beach Blvd in West Anaheim, and if this proposition passes, I will guarantee you that I won't move forward, nor would my partners. And that means a loss of jobs, that would have been at multiple levels, including some that could be described as an apprenticeship or intern, not much money(wages) at first, but a chance to move into a much higher pay if successful.

I benefitted from that type of learning, and would love to give the opportunity to others starting out. But I can't risk my "pension" income if not assured that I would at least be able to get some return so I could pay my bills.

But you can't have "starting wage" be a true "living wage" for that to happen. A basic wage should be that, something that covers the very basic things. And for those who want a living wage, well, they can learn a skill that would earn one. A plumber might not be glamorous, might not be a fun job, but it is a needed profession, and gets the wage it deserves.
Beautifully said
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
Why do the citizens have the right to tell someone else how to run their business?

Society has the right and frankly the obligation to regulate business. The same as they have the right and the obligation to regulate individuals. That is why there are laws in place for both people and corporations.

Personally I don't agree with the proposal, but changes need to be made.

Does everybody have the right to have a smart phone, a nice car, their own apartment without roommates or a partner to share in the costs, $200 pair of shoes, an unlimited moviepass, Netflix, Hula, etc.

This isn't about expensive cars and luxuries. This is about working people that can't afford a roof over their head or enough food to eat.

Yes, many Disney jobs are entry level and designed for someone who is a student, a retiree, a second income, etc. The jobs are not meant to be the sole source of income for a family.

That's not the reality. This is a Disney forum, but this is not only Disney. I posted in another thread about the skyrocketing rate of people with college degrees working minimum wage jobs. For far too many work a minimum wage or low paying job is their reality.
 

kevlightyear

Well-Known Member
So many complaints, so few solutions offered. Your lack of empathy is telling, @Darkbeer1 .
Yes, many Disney jobs are entry level and designed for someone who is a student, a retiree, a second income, etc. The jobs are not meant to be the sole source of income for a family.
Says who? For someone who thinks it's unheard of to tell a business how to operate, you don't seem to have a problem telling someone how to run their professional life.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
So many complaints, so few solutions offered. Your lack of empathy is telling, @Darkbeer1 .

Says who? For someone who thinks it's unheard of to tell a business how to operate, you don't seem to have a problem telling someone how to run their professional life.

Numbers aren’t about empathy. Numbers don’t have feelings.

If someone chooses to work in a profession- willingly- then they went in with their eyes wide open as to what they will be earning each month, and what an apartment or home costs..and what they need to earn to support their family.
It’s Simple Math. That’s who “says who?”
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
This isn't about expensive cars and luxuries. This is about working people that can't afford a roof over their head or enough food to eat

Then take that expensive smartphone... and research other places to live. Grab 2 friends and move together.

That's the difference.. in the past people who couldn't make it work where they were, MOVED. Now, people just demand they be made whole because they are there 'and can't afford to go somewhere else'. Really? You can't afford to stay here, a place with cost of living higher than the majority of country... but can't afford to go somewhere else.. pfft.
 
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Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
Then take that expensive smartphone... and research other places to live. Grab 2 friends and move together.

That's the difference.. in the past people who couldn't make it work where they were, MOVED. Now, people just demand they be made whole because they are there 'and can't afford to go somewhere else'. Really? You can't afford to stay here, a place with cost of living higher than the majority of country... but can't afford to go somewhere else.. pfft.

Many have.

http://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265


It is good for everyone to have for a city, regions, state etc to have people of all income levels. The lack of higher paying jobs (this is hardly a Disney issue) is driving those who can't afford to live in CA out and that's a bad thing. Again we aren't talking about handouts. Anyone willing to put in the work should be able to afford a roof over their head and be able to eat in the wealthiest country in the world.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/08/californias-housing-crisis-is-on-state-democrats/

>>
And they’re furious that Silicon Valley’s millionaires and billionaires, upon whom the California budget all but depends, pushed real estate values so high on the peninsula that San Francisco itself became (even more) cost-prohibitive to normal people.

It’s an ugly clash of policies, priorities, and principles. And it’s sad proof that the so-called “blue state model” of big taxes, big budgets, and big cities is now badly malfunctioning even on its own terms, with virtually no organized opposition.

The wisdom of federalism is that one size doesn’t fit all. One-party rule tends to flout that hard-earned understanding, whether at the national level or the state level. But state Democrats have spent so long in power that their ideals have grown distorted and destructive — not just to the public good, but to each other. Without fresh humility, they’re in for more hard lessons. And so are Californians as a whole.<<
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Many have.

http://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265


It is good for everyone to have for a city, regions, state etc to have people of all income levels. The lack of higher paying jobs (this is hardly a Disney issue) is driving those who can't afford to live in CA out and that's a bad thing. Again we aren't talking about handouts. Anyone willing to put in the work should be able to afford a roof over their head and be able to eat in the wealthiest country in the world.

California is a living example of you can’t just regulate everything or make feel good laws without looking at the consequences. You can’t drive up costs forever and ignore it. That’s why so much business has left the state... and so many people have too.

Thinking that just mandating higher pay will fix these kinds of unbalances is short sighted.
 

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