Killing the MAGIC slowly..

[Just A Big Kid]

Yes before you read any futher into this.. i'm gonna gripe and complain alot here so if you don't wanna read it.. go to the next topic..:lol:

I just read where they are talking about taking out SE to put in Time Racer. This SUCKS!!! I fully understand from time to time rides do need updates and refurbs.. NOT REPLACEMENTS.

I can remember seeing Walt Disney himself talking about the reason WDW was to be so large was so they would have the "blessing of size" to add and expand. But i can't remember ever seeing him discussing having to take out classic rides just to have new ones. Perfect example, Test Track... Ok i agree it has it's cool moments.. but that's moments. Think about this, when they were planning on doing TT originally, don't you think it would have cost LESS to build it a new pavillian custom suited to the ride?? Instead, they had to design TT to fit into an existing structure, pay to have WOM removed(which i'm sure wasn't cheap) and make do with the building it was in. Maybe i'm the only one who has noticed.. but there is ALOT of room to build on ADDITIONS to Epcot. Or another thought to chew up, ok.. GM wanted a new attraction. Why not build an additional attraction to complement WoM(which covered the history) with an attraction of whats to come.. ya know.. THE FUTURE (hmm.. in Futureworld, imagine that)... But they decided to go with a choppy ride theme wise and try to cram it in WoM's building. NOOOW comes the fun part... next on the chopping block it SE. It has attracted many to Epcot and has stood for 20 years as the ICON of Epcot. The wand addition was ugly enough but now to replace it too?? Isn't there room between The Land and Living Seas to add a new attraction??? But then again as with WoM.. it's better business to kill an existing favorite and yes i said favorite just to add another attraction(or so they think). Think about it folks.. how much would it cost just to gut out the ball? They would have to bring out the ride in very small pieces down the corridors where we ride up and down now which would be hell to start with, then load all the new components back up the corridors to install them. Your talking a chunk of money just right there. For a company who has cried and cried about budget budget budget.. they seem to make some stupid decisions. Let's see.. lets not offer MORE for the money.. lets just hope these replacements will maybe make us more profit..

Ok.. i've griped enough... and don't even get me started on CoP... they screwed the ride attendance THEMSELVES for that ride... but that's another topic entirely...

Just my 2 cents.. now rip it apart...

 

[SpongeScott]

Like others have said in other threads about SE coming down, believe it when you see it. Hopefully you ranted for nothing.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by Just A Big Kid
Think about it folks.. how much would it cost just to gut out the ball? They would have to bring out the ride in very small pieces down the corridors where we ride up and down now which would be hell to start with, then load all the new components back up the corridors to install them.

Acutally there is a reasonably sized service elevator to handle quite a bit of that moving in and out. Somewhere on these boards you can see the schematics for the ride. The elevator entrance is just across from the q-line for the ride.

 

[goofyman]

well I must admit I was not going to read the thread because I did not want to hear any more gripes, But I did. And I must say I agree with you toatlly. Instaed of replacing there should be MORE, that will bring in guest and kep them comig. Glad I read on...:hammer:

 

[Testtrack321]

Your ranting and raving and calling this whole post about killing the magic is really pathetic. I'm getting tired of the type A Disfreaks who can't have any attraction altered unless Walt did it (even if it turns out good.) If you think that keeping 20 year old rides and mearly 'updating' them to fit your needs and demands is good for FURTURE WORLD (hence the name, FUTURE, not NOSTALGIA World), then move over. I find it incredibly rude and disgusting when people CONSTANTLY complain about a new ride just by what it sounds like but not what it is. Sure, people can complain about TT and such, but due to contract negiotiations, it had to be removed. No if ands or buts.

If Disney's main goal is to appease 10 people who think this ride has to stay or that the world will come down, then you have some priorities mixed up.

NOTE: Disney's main quest is to appease the customer and returing ones. Most people returning and new think SE is long and borring (I love it, but face it, it's old, loud, and in need of replacement.)

 

[Mikey4WDW]

changes

Well, I guess it depends on the rides. I do realize and believe that is good to make changes sometimes. But I have to admit that there are some rides that I wish could be kept and just updated technologies or look. I do go to WDW as much as possible and do love to come back to new and different things but I also like to see some old familiars. I guess even us Disney fanatics may disagree at times. Here's to Disney!!!!!!:sohappy: :sohappy: :wave:

 

[Moustronaut]

One question... how are all the people going to get in and out of Epcot if SE gets any kinda of major exterior construction or demolition?

Look how much room was set aside for the demolition of horizons and the construction of M:S.

Most of the two walkways into future world are covered by at least part of the big ball. I can see them putting up construction tunnels for a while.... but not for two whole years.

Yes there is the international gateway... but there's no monorail or good bus access.

If they want to rebuild the post show, great. The global village is AT&T's showcase. It's really hard to keep that concept up to date when many of us have that in our living rooms and offices. A new post show ride or movie would be a VERY WELCOME change.

But I can't imagine that they'd tear up the center of the park and try to keep the park open.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by Moustronaut
One question... how are all the people going to get in and out of Epcot if SE gets any kinda of major exterior construction or demolition?............................................

But I can't imagine that they'd tear up the center of the park and try to keep the park open.

Did y'all miss the thread about EPCOT closing at the end of 2003??????:wave: :wave: :fork:

 

[Moustronaut]

Originally posted by niteobsrvr
Did y'all miss the thread about EPCOT closing at the end of 2003??????

Oh yea... Isner said it was so. hehehehe:lol:

 

[cymbaldiva]

Just A Big Kid -

I for one am not going to rip you apart at all - I agree with you

Testtrack321 -

Why is it again that you're such a Disney pesimist?
:veryconfu

 

[jrashadb]

...

(sigh)

OK... usually I wouldn't do this. As a journalist, I am a huge proponent of freedom of speech. I am a firm believer in allowing anyone the opportunity to have their voice heard. Tat's part of what makes this country great. Usually, I take anything anyone has to say with a begrudging respect because it is their right to say it... no matter how ridiculously stupid what they are saying is...

With that said... here we go...

For those of you who love WoM... that ride was not as good as you remember it being. It was a fine ride and perfect for the first phase of Epcot, but it wasn't all that great. It was one of those rides that you went on if yo had time to get on it beofre things got good in WS... I'm sorry, but that's the truth.. It needed a major refurb and that's what it got. Maybe a lot of you are not happy with the result (Test Track) and maybe you have a right to be upset as the return youn got for for your years of patience was not all that spectacular, but it is better than the outdated attraction that was there. Perhps it should have been more carefully refurbed, but GM was mad and in a hurry and WDW did what they could... Disney learned many important lessons there and they will not repeat the mistakes they made there ever again. *Hence... scrapping Horizons ans starting from scratch).
Vy the way... befire you fire up your fingers and start to defend horizons, I loved that ride as much as any of you. It held Future World together, more than SE dod... more than anything in the park did... But, it was outated and needed a major refurb. And, after GE pulled out, they decided it was time for something new. They destroye the building -- an act that hurt many people, including me -- and will debut somethin that I think will be something revolutionize the theme park ride business... I think it will be something special.

As for SE... It has to stay a slow-moving dark ride about communication. And, it has to be called Spaceship Earth. Personally, I don't believe any of this nonsense about it becomming a thrill ride. It's just too far-fetched. It's ridiculous. It's not what SE is about. If they change it, the entire front of the park would have to be shut down. I don't WDW is willing to shut down the front of their No. 2 park -- a park that is suppose to be known for its beauty -- which is still not doing as well as they would like it to do to put in a new ride system which will constitute a full on sprint away from all the things the ride is supposed to be about.

Friends... SE will not shut down. The ride needs help, to be sure. I've written about how they could make the ride better -- from eliminating the diorammas to improving the AA effects in the ride -- but, it cannot go away.
That would be a travesty.

 

[thedisneyfan]

Testtrack321----

You're saying that you would have no problem if they closed TT tomorrow and gutted it? Is there any attraction at WDW that you would have a problem if they gutted it?

 

[Testtrack321]

Originally posted by thedisneyfan
Testtrack321----

You're saying that you would have no problem if they closed TT tomorrow and gutted it? Is there any attraction at WDW that you would have a problem if they gutted it?

Yes, I would have problems with tearing down some rides. But FUTURE World was never supposed to be like the Magic Kingdom when I comes to rides. Sure, I WANT SE TO STAY, but we need to let go. Move on. For there is one thing I found out, and that's attractions are better when their in your memories.

RIP ToN

 

[CAPTAIN HOOK]

Out with the old................

I don't want to see Spaceship Earth disappear, but why invent the lightbulb if the candle works ok ?
Unfortunately, my friends, this is called progress. If WDW kept all the old rides, the ones dearest in our hearts, and built new ones on the available land at the back of the parks - wouldn't everyone steer straight past the older rides for the newer, more technologically advanced ones ?
Then what becomes of the older rides - they stand in prime positions within the parks taking up valuable space for people to walk by.
Unfortunately, everything must come to an end........its called life.

But wait - what about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" well thats the other side of the coin - and this argument / debate could go on forever.

 

[Mikey4WDW]

rides

Yes, alas, I have to also agree with these statements. If all the rides stayed the same it would end up being boring because after awhile there would be no reason to go back. But I do love WDW like crazy..:sohappy:

 

[Fievel]

I agree wholeheartedly.

Think of it this way: There are 2 basic kinds of Disney fans. Nostalgics and Progressives.


Nostalgics are stuck in the past. They don't want anything to change just because Walt Disney had a hand on the design and theming of a ride. Does that mean that because Walt is dead, we should stop trying to succeed since there is nobody else that can dream like him? I think not. In fact, Walt's dreams are mere peanuts compared to some of the big plans on the WDW-I board. If a ride becomes stagnant and shows its age then perhaps its time to go on. Could TT and WoM coexist? Probably. But would GM want to pay to sponsor both at the same time and foot part of the cost for the construction of a new pavillion. Probably not. It would go without a sponsor, most likely, and would fall fate to seasonal operation or worse. So now we have a new TT pavillion, but we have a big unused building. In my mind, putting in TT was exactly what Disney would have done. He would not want the park to seem old and tired after only 20 years. He would always want it to have the newest technologies and ideas. That was the original theme for Epcot - to always be not only up-to-date, but 3 steps ahead of it's time. It should be a showcase of what is to come....not what was 20 years ago.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Theme parks have changed with the advent of thrill rides. Way back in Walt's day, there were few roller-coasters, and that was about as big of a thrill as you got. Walt strove to make a park that was just plain fun...rides based on movies and such. Today if you start a park with what the MK or DL had, you're commiting financial suicide. If the MK were to open today with the original rides, nobody would go, because it would have nothing new and innovative to offer. Sure...you'd have your die-hards that would go no matter what, but in time the mistakes would show and the MK would be forced to update to compete or fade into the proverbial sunset.


Now, don't get me wrong...I love the original rides...but on my last trip, I was on Peter Pan, and looked into the volcano, and the tin foil falling off and peeling, exposing exactly how they performed the lava effects, and I couldn't help but wonder what Walt would do today to make this ride not only different, but entertaining. I'm doubting he'd use a lot of animatronics like he used to. Things are more high tech these days, but because Walt used them in the past, the company has used them as their staple for years to mild success. Are the animatronic rides sentimental favorites? Sure...but last time I was at Epcot, TT had an hour wait, and WoE was walk on. The Animatronic rides may be fun to do, but let's face it - they're not what are bringing people in the gates, and new guests year after year. It's the promise that Disney can give them an experience that nobody else on earth can.


That's why you see rides like M:S. Disney is pushing the envelope, and continues to make people excited.


IN short....if you want to be like Walt, it's time to tune in to this decade.

 

[Katherine]

Epcot is suppose to be ever changing with the times. I think that it would be a shame if the took out SE, cause I would miss it but I also think that the ride needs some new spark to it a new scene or something but to completely take down the ride would be a waste of precious money. I think some newer cars that look more futuristic would be neat. But it would be a waste of time, energy, and money to replace the ride like they did with WOM ans horizons.

Personally though I think TT is a really fun ride! I think they could have made it a little more educational with the beginning being a history review in faster motion. Then you would go through the obstacals but I think the ride is really fun! I miss WOM but TT is fun too!

 

[Mikey4WDW]

nostalgic

Fievel,

This is very true. I do not feel that most WDW fans would disagree. Each persons just seems to have certain rides they are attracted to no matter how many times they are ridden. But I agree that be progressive can be a good thing.

 

[dreamer]

Re: nostalgic

Originally posted by Mikey4WDW
Fievel,

This is very true. I do not feel that most WDW fans would disagree. Each persons just seems to have certain rides they are attracted to no matter how many times they are ridden. But I agree that be progressive can be a good thing.

As the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20. I think completely closing WoM was a mistake. IMO, it would have much better to update the concept and add a thrill component. (a la Splash Mtn with entertainment thrill in one ride) I wonder how much corporate sponsors influenced what Disney did there.


If Disney can update Spaceship Earth I think it would be great if they did. Maybe they've learned from the WoM to TT transition and will include the best of old and new??!! And if they throw everything out they'd better replace it with something better.

 

[GenerationX]

You make a great point about Nostalgics vs. Progressives, Fievel. I'd put myself firmly in the Progressive camp for one reason: if an attraction is no longer entertaining to a majority of guests, I see little reason to leave it alone. Technology has changed at such a rapid rate over the last 20 years that what was once cutting edge entertainment is now quaint (think Pong). Cutting edge sells more tickets than quaint.

Also, jrashadb said:

For those of you who love WoM... that ride was not as good as you remember it being. It was a fine ride and perfect for the first phase of Epcot, but it wasn't all that great.

I remember feeling this way at DisneyQuest when I got to play Berzerk for the first time in 20 years. I enjoyed it because it brought me back to my "younger years", but I didn't find it all that entertaining in comparison to the other games out now.

Finally, I agree with dreamer that Splash Mountain is the perfect example of the best of both worlds - great use of AA to tell a story that adds to the thrill component. I also agree that if Disney wants to update S.E. (which I think it could use), I would want them to combine the best of both worlds. I wouldn't add big drops for the thrills, but more dazzle to the visual effects (like some of the effects in HM and the first part of ToT).