Just back from our first non-Disney Orlando trip.

[ScoutN]

Yes.
Busch parks are great. Nothing at all like Six-Flags, which are fine for what they are, too.

Odd to do a non-Disney trip and leave off Universal, though. I would have chosen that over Busch or Sea World, but I guess having little kids might effect those decisions.

It really baffles me when someone is beyond quick to bash a SWP&E product. BGW has consistenly won Most Beautiful Theme Park for twenty one years. A lot of their upper end management is rotated throughout the entire company. Most recently BGW's Park Manager was moved to SWSD right after he broke attendance records here.

Christmas Town is drawing people from all over, you not find find an outted light or chipped paint anywhere. If you do then you can bet your dollars it will be fixed that night. Even during HoS the actors have been known to tear up certain items, the maitenance team is there fixing them that night to ensure it is in proper order for the next day all while they know they will be doing it again the following night. With BGW's upcoming hotel, 2-3 new darkrides, new train stop, other expansions, and Water Country USA's expansion that will double its size competitors might want to start shaking. Blackstone is looking to build this area up and with the numbers for this year they are on the right track.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-amusement-park/2011/05/01/AFeuIbTF_blog.html

 

[Texas84]

Of course you realize you are now banned from this site. :lol:

I went to Busch Gardens in Virginia a while back and thought it was very nice. Clean and actually well-themed.

 

[WDW1974]

I agree with musketeer. Sea World, Busch Gardens, Universal, etc. can be a lot of fun - and are a lot less expensive - but they aren't Disney.

But does everything have to be Disney?

And just because something isn't Disney is it therefore automatically a lesser product to some people? Is Disney some unattainable, unquestionable deity on a mountaintop?

Just wondering 'cause I'm a big Disney parks fan, but I also love the UNI and SW parks and think they are superior to Disney in many important ways ... and to say that real world basic truths don't matter because only Disney has pixie dust and DREAMS, WISHES AND MAGIC kinda is the type of argument that a petulant seven-year-old might use (and I do realize neither you or the OP said this, but it is a common thread in threads like this). :xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

It really baffles me when someone is beyond quick to bash a SWP&E product. BGW has consistenly won Most Beautiful Theme Park for twenty one years. A lot of their upper end management is rotated throughout the entire company. Most recently BGW's Park Manager was moved to SWSD right after he broke attendance records here.

Christmas Town is drawing people from all over, you not find find an outted light or chipped paint anywhere. If you do then you can bet your dollars it will be fixed that night. Even during HoS the actors have been known to tear up certain items, the maitenance team is there fixing them that night to ensure it is in proper order for the next day all while they know they will be doing it again the following night. With BGW's upcoming hotel, 2-3 new darkrides, new train stop, other expansions, and Water Country USA's expansion that will double its size competitors might want to start shaking. Blackstone is looking to build this area up and with the numbers for this year they are on the right track.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-amusement-park/2011/05/01/AFeuIbTF_blog.html

Yep ... I have a good friend who was at BGW Monday ... he is very familiar with the Disney/UNI/SW products. He says it is the best done holiday event he has ever been to at any USA park. He is tougher on the parks than I am and his praise isn't something I take lightly. He said it even beats old-school Disney when they gave a damn.

BGW is the only park in the USA that I have never been to and really want to get to (not quite sure why I haven't except that I am not in that area very often and would have to plan a trip around it) ... but I do intend to get there next year. :xmas:

 

[MKCP 1985]

But does everything have to be Disney?

And just because something isn't Disney is it therefore automatically a lesser product to some people? Is Disney some unattainable, unquestionable deity on a mountaintop?

Just wondering 'cause I'm a big Disney parks fan, but I also love the UNI and SW parks and think they are superior to Disney in many important ways ... and to say that real world basic truths don't matter because only Disney has pixie dust and DREAMS, WISHES AND MAGIC kinda is the type of argument that a petulant seven-year-old might use (and I do realize neither you or the OP said this, but it is a common thread in threads like this). :xmas:

One thing I remember from all those years ago about my trip to Disneyland - you could see the outside influences of the freeway and of Anaheim from the park in certain areas and it isn't like being at Walt Disney World where the streets have their own purple traffic signs and the Magic Kingdom park is accessible via boat or monorail - or at Epcot where you can enter from an international gateway - where you feel transported to somewhere else and not just another amusement park. That is one thing that I never got at any other park including Disneyland, except for last December at Universal, when the Whoville Whos were out and about and the whole Hogsmeade deal at Harry Potter was going on with candy and magic shops and the new rides and all. I tell you, Disney better keep an eye on that place. :lookaroun

To me, it is that sense of being somewhere else, and not just at an amusement park in Orlando that makes me want to go back again and again. That is the pixie dust that makes some people fall for the DME and the DVC and the other traps to keep you on property for the length of your vacation. Strong medicine, if you fall for it. I wouldn't be too tough on the pixie dusters. I can totally see where they are coming from.

 

[Figment82]

Yep ... I have a good friend who was at BGW Monday ... he is very familiar with the Disney/UNI/SW products. He says it is the best done holiday event he has ever been to at any USA park. He is tougher on the parks than I am and his praise isn't something I take lightly. He said it even beats old-school Disney when they gave a damn.

BGW is the only park in the USA that I have never been to and really want to get to (not quite sure why I haven't except that I am not in that area very often and would have to plan a trip around it) ... but I do intend to get there next year. :xmas:

Oh, I do hope you get the chance to visit BGW soon. Growing up in Maryland, we would take frequent trips down there. I love that park, although I will never forgive them for taking out my beloved Big Bad Wolf coaster.

This year was the first time we had the combined annual pass to SW and BGTB and really enjoyed ourselves. Although I will always love the Williamsburg park over Tampa's, it's still a really nice place with some great rides and exhibits. We finally made it over to see SW's Christmas offerings on Monday and I was very impressed. It was nice to finally see Christmas lights in a theme park that were fully lit and operational. :animwink:

 

[c-one]

Yep ... I have a good friend who was at BGW Monday ... he is very familiar with the Disney/UNI/SW products. He says it is the best done holiday event he has ever been to at any USA park. He is tougher on the parks than I am and his praise isn't something I take lightly. He said it even beats old-school Disney when they gave a damn.

BGW is the only park in the USA that I have never been to and really want to get to (not quite sure why I haven't except that I am not in that area very often and would have to plan a trip around it) ... but I do intend to get there next year. :xmas:

BGW is a beautifully-landscaped park, but some of their recent attraction decisions have been real headscratchers. Ripping out the Big Bad Wolf, one of the best, most beloved and most unique roller coasters in the country is an offense I may never forgive them for. Since then we've got the DarKastle ride (bad ripoff of Spiderman), Europe in the Air (REALLY bad ripoff of Soarin'), Mach Tower (a drop tower, whoop-dee-friggin-doo) and next year there will be Verbolten (a ripoff of that Alton Towers ride, remains to be seen if it will be good).

Of course they've still got Apollo's Chariot, Griffon, Alpengeist and Loch Ness Monster, all of which are excellent, excellent roller coasters. It's been nice to see them invest so much in the park the last few years, but those investments have been unoriginal and frankly not very good.

Busch Gardens Tampa is still excellent though. :slurp:

 

[bullsforthewin]

But does everything have to be Disney?

And just because something isn't Disney is it therefore automatically a lesser product to some people? Is Disney some unattainable, unquestionable deity on a mountaintop?

Just wondering 'cause I'm a big Disney parks fan, but I also love the UNI and SW parks and think they are superior to Disney in many important ways ... and to say that real world basic truths don't matter because only Disney has pixie dust and DREAMS, WISHES AND MAGIC kinda is the type of argument that a petulant seven-year-old might use (and I do realize neither you or the OP said this, but it is a common thread in threads like this). :xmas:

Can you please state why you think Uni and SW are better than Disney in MANY important ways? Because i am interested in a good laugh

 

[bullsforthewin]

BGW is a beautifully-landscaped park, but some of their recent attraction decisions have been real headscratchers. Ripping out the Big Bad Wolf, one of the best, most beloved and most unique roller coasters in the country is an offense I may never forgive them for. Since then we've got the DarKastle ride (bad ripoff of Spiderman), Europe in the Air (REALLY bad ripoff of Soarin'), Mach Tower (a drop tower, whoop-dee-friggin-doo) and next year there will be Verbolten (a ripoff of that Alton Towers ride, remains to be seen if it will be good).

Of course they've still got Apollo's Chariot, Griffon, Alpengeist and Loch Ness Monster, all of which are excellent, excellent roller coasters. It's been nice to see them invest so much in the park the last few years, but those investments have been unoriginal and frankly not very good.

Busch Gardens Tampa is still excellent though. :slurp:

Which one is better for you? I have been to the one in Tampa but i always wanted to go to the other one

 

[ddbowdoin]

I can't really do the other parks... although I have never been to Busch Gardens anywhere in the US. I honestly just can't see myself spending the day pass for Sea World.

 

[c-one]

Can you please state why you think Uni and SW are better than Disney in MANY important ways? Because i am interested in a good laugh

Well, both of these parks are building more AND better rides than any of the WDW parks right now. I'm not sure if you're excited about the new Fantasyland...but I don't think it has anything for me. Certainly nothing that compares to Forbidden Journey. And if the Harry Potter expansion is anywhere near as good as that...wowza.

I'd also say that, in recent years, the Universal parks and Sea World seem to be more on top of maintenance and cleanliness than the Disney parks.

Food is still better at WDW, but the gap is closing.

What it comes down to is... there's not a single project underway at WDW that I'm excited about. Avatar *might* be very cool, but it's a long way away and we honestly haven't heard nearly enough about it to make a judgement yet. Universal's recent Harry Potter addition is phenomenal and the idea of a second land as good as the original is VERY exciting. And the upcoming Sea World exhibits sound very cool, too.

I'm not a Disney "hater," FWIW -- but I've been going to WDW for 20 years and in the past few years, standards have slipped in every way while prices keep on going up. Meanwhile, Universal and SeaWorld continue to invest in and improve their parks while WDW isn't keeping up.

Which one is better for you? I have been to the one in Tampa but i always wanted to go to the other one

Hmm, that's a tough one. I think I like Willamsburg better by a hair, even though I haven't liked their recent additions. The old rides that are still there are great, and the park grounds really are gorgeous. It's close though. Tampa has many more and considerably better animal exhibits, and their new coaster is a lot of fun.

It does help that Colonial Williamsburg is a much nicer place to visit than Tampa...

 

[ScoutN]

Yep ... I have a good friend who was at BGW Monday ... he is very familiar with the Disney/UNI/SW products. He says it is the best done holiday event he has ever been to at any USA park. He is tougher on the parks than I am and his praise isn't something I take lightly. He said it even beats old-school Disney when they gave a damn.

BGW is the only park in the USA that I have never been to and really want to get to (not quite sure why I haven't except that I am not in that area very often and would have to plan a trip around it) ... but I do intend to get there next year. :xmas:

ChristmasTown IS amazing, you saw the photos and videos I sent to you a month or so ago. The awards that park has won speaks for themselves.

The real kicker to me is how people try to compare Uni or Disney to a SWP&E product. SWP&E are what they are because they built on themed beauty with natural elements and not character themings. The fact they have the reputation that they do with a standalone non cartooned product is beyond astounding.

If you want some tips and tricks for planning a trip to around here then shoot me a PM. There is plenty to do, especially as far as history goes. If you enjoy history then this is the area to spend a few days. BGW even has packages set up with Colonial Williamsburg. Granted I MIGHT be able to swindle a deal a bit better than that.

Oh, I do hope you get the chance to visit BGW soon. Growing up in Maryland, we would take frequent trips down there. I love that park, although I will never forgive them for taking out my beloved Big Bad Wolf coaster.

This year was the first time we had the combined annual pass to SW and BGTB and really enjoyed ourselves. Although I will always love the Williamsburg park over Tampa's, it's still a really nice place with some great rides and exhibits. We finally made it over to see SW's Christmas offerings on Monday and I was very impressed. It was nice to finally see Christmas lights in a theme park that were fully lit and operational. :animwink:

I think CT at BGW has really pushed the Christmas styling at the other parks. BGW is near capacity nearly every night for the event. The fact that only one coaster is open and that is only open so long as the temperature remains about 40* and the park is still slammed speaks volumes.

See the below reply regarding Sir Wolf.

BGW is a beautifully-landscaped park, but some of their recent attraction decisions have been real headscratchers. Ripping out the Big Bad Wolf, one of the best, most beloved and most unique roller coasters in the country is an offense I may never forgive them for. Since then we've got the DarKastle ride (bad ripoff of Spiderman), Europe in the Air (REALLY bad ripoff of Soarin'), Mach Tower (a drop tower, whoop-dee-friggin-doo) and next year there will be Verbolten (a ripoff of that Alton Towers ride, remains to be seen if it will be good).

Of course they've still got Apollo's Chariot, Griffon, Alpengeist and Loch Ness Monster, all of which are excellent, excellent roller coasters. It's been nice to see them invest so much in the park the last few years, but those investments have been unoriginal and frankly not very good.

Busch Gardens Tampa is still excellent though. :slurp:

Big Bad Wold physically HAD to go. It was manufactured with a shelf life of 25 years. The shelf life was due to the nature of the coaster and the forces exerted on its own structure. It was an early Arrow Suspended and a huge success. Management did whatever they could to keep the bad boy but it would have required nearly every bit of track outside of the transfer be replaced.

It is rather funny that you call DarKastle a bad ripoff. The same designer of Spiderman designed DK. DK also maintains an airbag maneuvering system over the hydraulics Spiderman maintains. It is undergoing a massive rehab right now, actually. Don't expect to see EitA for too long. Its reception has been terrible. It was never built to compete with Soarin' either. They were approached by an airline with sponsorship for the ride. If it were not for the sponsor then it never would have been built.

You complain about Mach Tower, a prototype drop tower. It was never an initial portion of the plan but the park wanted something more to tie the guests over until Verbolten was built. It is a great "flat" addition to the park that the public has received very well.

Verbolten a Thirteen ripoff? Far from it. The manufacturer is different, it is using a launch system that has a bit more torque than most LIM launchers, the drop will be around 20 foot vs 30cm, and it is a TERRAIN coaster for its outdoor portions. If you are trying to throw the Dark Forest style theming as it being a knockoff then pack it up. BBW was a Bavarian Village in the middle of a Dark Forest. Keep in mind Verbolten is going in German, that kinda points to a Dark Forest style theming from the get go. The park understands the huge sentiment Wolf had and it is clear in Verbolten's plan.

Drop look familiar? It is the EXACT same path as the Wolf. The Wolf's footers are being reused with just a bit of reinforcement done to them.

Station look familiar?

http://bgwfans.com/?p=1518

Look at how far it is going to fall.

 

[maxairmike]

That helix...! *drool*

Ok, coaster geek off...BGW really is a beautiful park from everything I've seen and heard. I cannot wait until I finally have a chance to head out that way to check it out.

 

[c-one]

Sorry, but a roller coaster through an dark forest that includes a freefall portion? That IS Thirteen, honestly. That coming so close on the heels of their third-rate Soarin' knockoff is what brings the "ripoff" word to mind. It does look like it will be a fine ride, but it could have used a bit more of an original theme.

And yes, I do think Mach Tower was weak -- the drop tower wars ended 10 years ago -- and it adds nothing to the park IMO. As Darkastle was the second ride using the Spiderman system, I can't help but compare it to the original and it sorely lacks IMO. Busch parks do a lot of things right, but their dark rides aren't great.

 

[ScoutN]

Verbolten was in the plans pre Thirteen. It will blow Thirteen out of the water as well. Before that site was hit with DMCAs the entire plans were up. Several members there have gone to the ends of the Earth comparing plans and it will be completely different. The theming will kill it, the ride system will kill it, and most importantly it is not Intamin (which did Cheetah Hunt excellent!). Busch did not build MT as a competitor to anything. It was built to offer unique views of the park that you could not view otherwise. Next year it will be in observation mode for CT to see the lights. It is a very versatile tower and has been received better than they could ever have imagined. If you rode DK often then you would know it is constantly tweaked. It is more intense during slower times than it is in capacity time. Wait until this huge refurb is done. EitA is pretty bad if you have ever been on Soarin' but like I said, it was designed with a sponsor backing. For the worst in this case.

 

[princessmadison]

how dare you cheat on disney!!!! :ROFLOL: but seriously i would never go to universal i just love disney and when you find a good thing i don't think you should try to top it. But thats only my opinion:wave:

 

[c-one]

Verbolten was in the plans pre Thirteen. It will blow Thirteen out of the water as well. Before that site was hit with DMCAs the entire plans were up. Several members there have gone to the ends of the Earth comparing plans and it will be completely different. The theming will kill it, the ride system will kill it, and most importantly it is not Intamin (which did Cheetah Hunt excellent!). Busch did not build MT as a competitor to anything. It was built to offer unique views of the park that you could not view otherwise. Next year it will be in observation mode for CT to see the lights. It is a very versatile tower and has been received better than they could ever have imagined. If you rode DK often then you would know it is constantly tweaked. It is more intense during slower times than it is in capacity time. Wait until this huge refurb is done. EitA is pretty bad if you have ever been on Soarin' but like I said, it was designed with a sponsor backing. For the worst in this case.

Verbolten does look like it will be a fun ride, and I'll take you on your word that it was coincidental -- but the similarities ARE quite something. And I understand that Mach Tower wasn't intended to be a competitor -- it's just that straightforward drop tower rides just aren't that interesting to me anymore, the way they were when they came out in the 90s. Vibrating seats aren't an interesting-enough addition to make me want to ride a ride Kings Dominion built 10 years ago. I'm glad for BGW that people are flocking to it...but hey, people flock to Stitch's Great Escape, too.

 

[c-one]

how dare you cheat on disney!!!! :ROFLOL: but seriously i would never go to universal i just love disney and when you find a good thing i don't think you should try to top it. But thats only my opinion:wave:

How can you judge Universal if you've never even been?

 

[musketeer]

How can you judge Universal if you've never even been?

Excellent question. People are so fast at doing that.

 

[musketeer]

Odd to do a non-Disney trip and leave off Universal, though. I would have chosen that over Busch or Sea World, but I guess having little kids might effect those decisions.

Yes, the little kids affect that. We've done universal before, and it's a great place all around. Especially if staying in one of their hotels.

But I didn't think there would be enough for my twin 2 1/2 year olds to really enjoy there. Obviously the older you get, the more appreciation you have for the detail. But the kids areas at Sea World and Busch Gardens were very good. Universal doesn't really have that.