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Jungle Cruise Update
- Thread starter SSG
- Start date
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Anyone else miss the Rocketeer popcorn machine doll in Tomorrow Land?
_caleb
Well-Known Member
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Replaced by a Woman Astronaut doll. Congratulations, ladies. Finally. Inclusion in Popcorn Vending Machines.
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
You're not willing to have an actual conversation.
You're not going to get it obviously so I'm done trying to explain it.
For the record I think the scene is outdated, as is the entire Jungle Cruise. Jungle Cruise is also low ranking on my attractions list so it's a ride that if it was removed would not bother me.
I just think in one way it can also be wrong for Disney to say tribal africans can't be in Disneyland, yet we have tribal native americans there without any concern.
SuddenStorm
Well-Known Member
I'm willing to bet there's at least one person in TDA who's very concerned about the Native Americans in Disneyland. Disney's definitely had to change their approach to Native Americans in Frontierland since the '50's- getting rid of the dead settler with an arrow with an arrow sticking out of his chest, and changing the Mark Twain narration from something about him being attacked by Indians to a moonshiner's distillery catching on fire.
There's also renaming the Canoes back in the '70s.
Now, the Native Americans aren't violent at all in Disneyland and Frontierland is far removed the time Davy Crockett was all the rage and kids played Cowboys and Indians. It's honestly a minor miracle Disney built a new iteration of the Indian Village when they redid the Rivers and I'd be willing to bet that had they redone them in 2020 the Native Americans would be gone.
It's also too bad Jungle Cruise can't get the same approach- maybe take out the spear attack and redesign the tribal village to be more accurate to what an African tribe looks like. But as this thread has shown, there's no representation of an African tribe that will appease everyone- so it's easier to remove the whole thing and cook up some half baked backstory about an Alberta Falls, and remove Trader Sam's physical presence- replacing him with a cheap gift shop gag.
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Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
No. It’s actually exhausting sometimes to have to explain these things as a black person to non-black people, especially when others just don’t get it, no matter how many times we explain (evidenced in this thread). You’re not getting the message, hence most likely why @fctiger is bowing out of the conversation.
It’s no surprise that Hans deleted their account after going back and forth with folks in this thread.
Practical Pig
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to hear this. I'd hoped he was just in a deep-lurking mode and would return. He was among my favorite posters.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
As for me, the one problem I have with the updates is that it's too dependent on monkeys. Other types of animals exist, Disney.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
I thought the same until I searched for him last night.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Depicting tribal people as “savages” (uncivilized, war-loving people who behave unpredictably and use violence to solve every conflict) is propaganda created to dehumanize them. Your comments are evidence that it works, because you seem to equate these depictions with actual representation of Africans.
But it’s the same as TP’s comments earlier in this thread saying, “Oh, so Disney’s solution is to remove all depictions of Black people.” Disney is removing the negative stereotypes. Hopefully, they will add more fairly-treated depictions of people of color.
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
Honest question, do you believe that I can have a different opinion/ disagree without it being hurtful? That I can listen to people's concerns, completely understand them, but also have a unique viewpoint?
I think it's great to have a place where people can have discussions and agree or disagree.
I'm certainly not a racist, if people saw my wife they'd realize this as well.
I'm trying to have a debate and responses like this just discourages discussion. I'm not trying to exhaust anyone and I read each and every post.
As I said earlier I certainly don't like the jungle cruise as an attraction to begin with. I hold no stakes in that ride or its scenes, I just take issue with the fact that people are saying certain cultures are now off limits in entertainment. What if it was a non violent depiction of an African Tribe? Or what if it was a light skinned tribe?
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el_super
Well-Known Member
Have you been on the Jungle Cruise? How would an honest and accurate portrayal of natives on the Jungle Cruise fit tonally in with the rest of the ride? Would you put in the effort to put in this actual representation of African tribal culture, promote how inclusive you are, and then let the skippers take pot-shots at them? That would be just as bad as the current scene, I think.
No one is saying that African culture is off-limits in entertainment. In the hope that you are sincere in your request, and haven't read the other pages, it's been pointed out that the Jungle Cruise is not a medium that can communicate anything but the most basic of story elements (read: jokes) in the time it takes for a boat to pass through a scene. The time required for a faithful exposition of African culture, with an appropriate setup and explanation, would take up half the ride time and completely change what the ride is supposed to be.
Additionally, as there always are, there are concerns about how one culture depicts another and forcing these depictions in should be avoided. If there was an honest and sincere desire to depict African culture, you would want Africans to have a voice in how they are depicted, and not just fine some excuse for keeping the natives around.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Having a “different opinion” regarding a topic such as this and disagreeing with people who are trying to explain to you how negative depictions can be and are/were harmful to them is not helpful, nor necessarily good.
I don’t think you’re racist and never accused you of racism, although I will say that marrying someone of another race doesn’t automatically not make one racist, but that’s another topic.
What is there to debate when people are talking about how they’re emotionally affected by racially stereotypical depictions? Discussion is discouraged when people dismiss the experiences of those who are trying to inform others of the issues they face in society and continuously fail to listen. In this case, it’s negative depictions of black people in a theme park.
I don’t think anyone said the depiction of a non-violent African tribe would be bad. Not sure why skin tone would matter. No one said African culture is off limits.
MoonRakerSCM
Well-Known Member
"No bison paintings to “brag” about?"
Lol wow, how do you invest so much time into these boards that you stick on little story details like this from months past? Unfortunately it's very difficult to fully ignore you on here as the boards still mention ignored posts and people quote things all over the place. When a thread is hot with an ignored member, I can't help but look at my bison painting, get his approval, and take a looksie.
BTW, I knicknamed the bison Larry... Can you bring that up in 6 months? Wow.
Lol wow, how do you invest so much time into these boards that you stick on little story details like this from months past? Unfortunately it's very difficult to fully ignore you on here as the boards still mention ignored posts and people quote things all over the place. When a thread is hot with an ignored member, I can't help but look at my bison painting, get his approval, and take a looksie.
BTW, I knicknamed the bison Larry... Can you bring that up in 6 months? Wow.
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Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
It’s not like it was a hard story to remember, as it was one of the most random and strangest flexes I’ve come across here, if not the strangest.
How do you invest your time here and still manage to miss how racism works?
You’re making up excuses. You can definitely help yourself from looking. The whole point of putting someone on ignore is to...ignore. Wouldn’t you already accept the fact that you’ll be missing out on context when you ignore someone? Just don’t look, but maybe you can’t help yourself.
Ready to ignore again or not quite yet?
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
I do believe you can have different opinions and disagree. But I also believe there are areas / topics where different opinions and disagreeing is just simply not appropriate, and not valid.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
What is even going on in this thread?
