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Jungle Cruise Update
- Thread starter SSG
- Start date
The JC is one of my mother's favorite ride but she knew nothing about these changes until literally yesterday when I told her about it. When I told her why she said 'good' and been riding it since the first year it opened. We're a black family, none of this stuff REALLY bothers us because we understand it was made for its time and this was the 50s, the perception of Africa in general was very different. I don't want to use the word 'racist' but yes to some black people it was and that included my mother.
Now did it stop her from loving it, no, because as said she understood they weren't TRYING to be racist or saw it as that. And people can certainly argue it never was. But when you're a minority, you see things very differently. And this is the one reality AS a POC you could not get away from when you want to DL the only black 'characters' was in the JC and that was the only representation of black people in a ride for YEARS in the entire park. That didn't change until IASW showed up (also in Africa) and then after that......?
But that was basically it.
So yeah, I mean I really try to stay out these arguments (I have not made ONE post about my thoughts on Splash Mountain here or anywhere to this day). But my mother has always felt JC came off racist to her and she's VERY happy about the changes. That said if they never changed it it wouldn't have bothered her either because it's been sitting there for over 60 years now, so it was never a huge deal. As POC we are use to seeing less than positive images of ourselves at times but can still like it. And as said she understood it was a ride designed at the time and white people's perspective of how they saw Africa. And to be fair that was a perspective even black Americans saw too because yeah they only watched the same limited media or the same education as everyone else at the time.
I have never once delved into the ride to talk about WHY the changes were happening, I just focused on the fact they were happening, which frankly I been super excited about. Not because I thought it was 'racist' I just don't look at these rides as museum pieces and always like if they change things around. Never been an issue, never will be as long as they make changes for the better. But after talking to my mother about it, it made even me see it differently. When you're a 7 year old girl at the time and the only images of black people in it are primitive natives in a time where racism truly was still everywhere, then yeah. You can still disagree but that's been her and others perception of the ride for a long time and why it's nice to finally change it.
Now did it stop her from loving it, no, because as said she understood they weren't TRYING to be racist or saw it as that. And people can certainly argue it never was. But when you're a minority, you see things very differently. And this is the one reality AS a POC you could not get away from when you want to DL the only black 'characters' was in the JC and that was the only representation of black people in a ride for YEARS in the entire park. That didn't change until IASW showed up (also in Africa) and then after that......?
But that was basically it.
So yeah, I mean I really try to stay out these arguments (I have not made ONE post about my thoughts on Splash Mountain here or anywhere to this day). But my mother has always felt JC came off racist to her and she's VERY happy about the changes. That said if they never changed it it wouldn't have bothered her either because it's been sitting there for over 60 years now, so it was never a huge deal. As POC we are use to seeing less than positive images of ourselves at times but can still like it. And as said she understood it was a ride designed at the time and white people's perspective of how they saw Africa. And to be fair that was a perspective even black Americans saw too because yeah they only watched the same limited media or the same education as everyone else at the time.
I have never once delved into the ride to talk about WHY the changes were happening, I just focused on the fact they were happening, which frankly I been super excited about. Not because I thought it was 'racist' I just don't look at these rides as museum pieces and always like if they change things around. Never been an issue, never will be as long as they make changes for the better. But after talking to my mother about it, it made even me see it differently. When you're a 7 year old girl at the time and the only images of black people in it are primitive natives in a time where racism truly was still everywhere, then yeah. You can still disagree but that's been her and others perception of the ride for a long time and why it's nice to finally change it.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
Interesting perspective.
You're missing the point though. For many people (especially racists) there WASN'T a difference back then. Especially at that time. Again, this is living from a time and perspective when many people still considered blacks as inferior, uncivil and/or primitive and rides like this only enhanced those stereotypes, even if that was never suppose to be the intention. Jim Crow laws were still around at this time.
My mother was called all types of names back then and being told to 'go back to Africa' was probably the least offensive phrase she heard but also the most common growing up in the South.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear that happened to your mother.
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
Sorry about what happened to her, I guess from a modern perspective I think its disingenious to say native africans are the same as african americans.
Might as well be comparing modern white americans to pilgrims at that point. Makes no sense.
Should media shy away from showing cultures because of their domestic counterparts? Rural
japanese depictions shouldn't draw comparison to japanese americans.
I appreciate that and my mother like many had to deal with things I never did. And she's never been bitter about it, things were just very different back then. But to bring this back to DL, my mother like others always saw it as a place where you're suppose to 'escape' your real world problems and why she still loves it to this day. But it still a park made by white people and lived in a time where racist notions were just part of society. I'm not saying Walt Disney was racist, I'm saying he was a white guy who grew up with the same stereotypical notions like other white people and it CLEARLY showed in a lot of his movies and cartoons. It doesn't mean he hated anyone, but he was still had notions like a lot of white people then.
And what gets frustrating reading some of these posts is that people seem to want to ignore the reality entertainment back then still came from a very biased and racist notion. The biggest being cartoons themselves. Ironically my mother believed beyond anything else that was the most racist forms of entertainment because kids watched them at a young age of course and it instilled those stereotypes more than anything because back then they were considered 'harmless' and 'nonpolitical' and yet why they were allowed to exist in those forms. And obviously that included a lot of Disney cartoons. There is a character literally called Jim Crow in Dumbo. She wasn't even allowed to watch that movie growing up because my grandmother thought it was too racist at the time. And of course it was a very popular ride when it opened with the park. This is the complex issues no one thinks about today. But in the fifties, yeah, it was focused razor thin when you were literally still living in it.
My only point is, yes, it's very easy to say in 2021 that was then, this was now, people recognize things were more racist then but we shouldn't 'erase' history. And I don't disagree with that. The problem comes when you ignore that history completely and just say it was acceptable because it was a sign of the times. I don't know if the answer is to just eliminate every ride or character in theme parks and no that's not going to solve racism either. But to people like mother, it's just different when you lived in that time. When these things were literally created when you around and they only helped to feed on the fact you were different or inferior to others who didn't look like you.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
All African Americans have been "told" to go back to Africa by racists.
Africans and African Americans have been synonymous in this country for centuries. Not as much as before, but the references are still there. Both an African and African American are known as "N" words by the ignorant.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
You and your mother's point of views have given me some new insight from a different point of view I did not consider before.
We're not talking from a 'modern' perspective though. That's literally the point. We'll just move on. This is why I try not to comment much on these things. It's no point of trying to explain something if you're not a POC or was living at that time.
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Exactly. Only then you could openly say it anywhere and no one blinked. Today someone tells you that and well....
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
What's the solution though? Never portraying african culture? Never portraying any culture that has american counterparts?
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Why do Africans have to be portrayed as savages? African culture is rich in diversity. If Disney wishes to portray Africans, there are plenty of other ways of doing it besides spears.
No one said that. And IIRC they have an entire land that represents Africa at Animal Kingdom. Have you been there? The land is literally called Africa. That has never been controversial in the least and one of my favorite lands in the park. Not a single change has been made since it opened. Why? Because they were smart enough to include real people from Africa and tell different stories and see people beyond savages who wants to cut off your head or throw spears at you. It's not just a stereotypical view, they really try to rely on real actual culture. The JC is different because it was built at a time when that was the ONLY image most people thought of from Africa. If that image was expanded like it was at DAK, then we probably wouldn't be talking about it now, right?
Again, no one is saying Disney can't use real culture, it's just how you do it obviously. In JC it was never done right. But it was also 1955.
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
Why are tribal people called "savages". That is their way of life and there are tribal people in the world of many different cultures.
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
Why can't you have a dangerous tribe of any culture though?
This reminds me of how the Mulan remake failed to call out Mongolians and named them something else. Despite the fact that Mongolians were the ones attacking China.
If you are on an adventure ride and want something scary, what's more exciting / scary than a tribe attacking you. You are invading their land and they rightfully should be defending their land.
Would the tribe bother you if they were light skinned?
I think animal kingdom is great and love the africa section as well, we stayed at animal kingdom lodge and talked to many people from south africa and it was a lovely experience.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Really?