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Jungle Cruise Update

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
For the record, I did crop this image to highlight the Jungle Cruise, but the original is such a gem:

View attachment 526904
Isn't it wild to see that in 1962 many of the attractions that we now deem quintessential Disney park experiences didn't even exist? Pirates, Haunted Mansion, the Tiki Room, Small World, Space Mountain, Big Thunder . . . even The Jungle Cruise as we now know it.

None of this is news to anyone who knows their Disneyland history, but it's crazy to see the park looking so recognizably like itself in a time before most of the classics were even dreamt up.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
What I've found is that many people across the internet don't listen. They lead every topic with some kind of bias, respond to comments in a knee jerk fashion, and then proceed to talk over one another. Mix in farfetched opinions and, in some cases, downright lies and misinformation and there you go. We're all guilty of doing some or all of this.

There have been a range of posts here in the past 24 hours from non-black fans clearly stating that they have received what @raven24 and I have said about racial representation at Disneyland. I'm offering gratitude to you for speaking up and respecting our viewpoint. I see you and I Thank you.

I see what you are saying but I think both sides are guilty of this to am extent. Also Thank you. I appreciate your comment: The least I can do is listen with an open mind. I may not agree with everything you have said but I have compassion for you and others that feel the way you do. At the end of the day the headhunters don’t mean anything to me. Political correctness just happens to spawn all of these terrible changes. Less because what is lost in most cases and more because what these attractions or scenes are replaced with by the new imagineers/Disney that just don’t seem to get it. Case in point: the new auction scene on POTC. As a big fan of Disneyland, I cringe when I read these blog statements from Disney where they suddenly turn on a dime and condemn attractions that everyone was enjoying since day one. Especially when they are so hypocritical about it like Disney continuing to sell Song of the South stuffed animals. So I don’t care much for virtue signaling from Mega corporations but I do care about people. So when I hear a story like Ravens, that has the power to open peoples minds and change perceptions. To be clear, it doesn’t change my mind in the case of the headhunters being problematic in the context of the Jungle Cruise (and Jungle Cruise only) but it does open my mind to help me see where she and others are coming from. In the end, I agree with Raven, you can take or leave the headhunters. It won’t change the ride experience for me. I just hope the execution on these new scenes are good. I just don’t agree with how they come to the conclusion to remove things and the “show” they put on for everyone to read on the park blogs.



Also, since we are having a nice conversation: It would be nice if everyone could just listen to each other without labeling each other. This is in no way only directed at you but I feel that the word “toxic” gets thrown around a little too easily when most people here are just sharing their honest opinion. Some maybe less eloquently than others.

With that said, I’m going to try to stay away from topics that get too heated and or too political. I’m just here for some light hearted convo about Disneyland. This place is one of my last escapes and in this closed, depressing world.
 

mandstaft

Well-Known Member
I see what you are saying but I think both sides are guilty of this to am extent. Also Thank you. I appreciate your comment: The least I can do is listen with an open mind. I may not agree with everything you have said but I have compassion for you and others that feel the way you do. At the end of the day the headhunters don’t mean anything to me. Political correctness just happens to spawn all of these terrible changes. Less because what is lost in most cases and more because what these attractions or scenes are replaced with by the new imagineers/Disney that just don’t seem to get it. Case in point: the new auction scene on POTC. As a big fan of Disneyland, I cringe when I read these blog statements from Disney where they suddenly turn on a dime and condemn attractions that everyone was enjoying since day one. Especially when they are so hypocritical about it like Disney continuing to sell Song of the South stuffed animals. So I don’t care much for virtue signaling from Mega corporations but I do care about people. So when I hear a story like Ravens, that has the power to open peoples minds and change perceptions. To be clear, it doesn’t change my mind in the case of the headhunters being problematic in the context of the Jungle Cruise (and Jungle Cruise only) but it does open my mind to help me see where she and others are coming from. In the end, I agree with Raven, you can take or leave the headhunters. It won’t change the ride experience for me. I just hope the execution on these new scenes are good. I just don’t agree with how they come to the conclusion to remove things and the “show” they put on for everyone to read on the park blogs.

Also, since we are having a nice conversation: It would be nice if everyone could just listen to each other without labeling each other. This is in no way only directed at you but I feel that the word “toxic” gets thrown around a little too easily when most people here are just sharing their honest opinion. Some maybe less eloquently than others.
I love this post, mickEblu! I don't even mind getting political at times as long as we are kind to each other as we offer our points of discussion. As I told my kids while they were growing up, "There's no excuse for others to be mean, but how you respond is your responsibility. You must be better than they are."
 

GrandCanyonConcourse

Well-Known Member
Am I wrong? Her post went off on a tirade about racial inequality and started using the words black and white and then talked about white privilege and how we 'can't get it' because of our skin color.
No she was explaining how it can effect POC like her, instead of listening you took that as an attack on yourself for no reason. You seem to have a real issue with her.... curious.
 

aliceismad

Well-Known Member
Made me sad to read about your experience as a little girl 💔

I’m glad that you can use that experience to be a positive influence in young black women's lives.
I completely agree with this sentiment. Representation matters. Every little child deserves to have characters they relate to, and on the flip side, every child should be exposed to stories that do not mirror their own.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
I too appreciate all the meaningful posts.

What I think some need to reflect on is how they are emotionally perceiving these changes as some sort of personal indictment against them. It is not. There is no need to hunker down and defend yourself, the fact you feel the need to is more trying to suppress guilt that you are personally inflicting on yourself.

Being nostalgic for something, liking something and later finding out that there are problems with it is not a bad thing. You can compartmentalize the two. Something can be offensive and at the same time you do not automatically have to be at blame for having found enjoyment in it. You do not even have to stop liking it. Somehow people turn the problematic revelation into feelings of guilt or blind defence.

There are so many healthier ways of processing information into "untouchably perfect or offensive trash".

It is like a Pixie Duster... and really I think that IS actually a base representation of the problem. Finding out Disney is not perfect does not have to deflate your entire sense of self worth. Finding out that someone does not like an aspect of "Disney" does not mean they are the enemy.

The same thing with finding out the world is and was not perfect. Representation is definitely not perfect. In fact you can even gain a new, better and more refined appreciation in the end of what you do love... if you just listen.
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
What I've found is that many people across the internet don't listen. They lead every topic with some kind of bias, respond to comments in a knee jerk fashion, and then proceed to talk over one another. Mix in farfetched opinions and, in some cases, downright lies and misinformation and there you go. We're all guilty of doing some or all of this.

There have been a range of posts here in the past 24 hours from non-black fans clearly stating that they have received what @raven24 and I have said about racial representation at Disneyland. I'm offering gratitude to you for speaking up and respecting our viewpoint. I see you and I Thank you.
Well said
 
D

Deleted member 107043

Political correctness just happens to spawn all of these terrible changes.

As a big fan of Disneyland, I cringe when I read these blog statements from Disney where they suddenly turn on a dime and condemn attractions that everyone was enjoying since day one. Especially when they are so hypocritical about it like Disney continuing to sell Song of the South stuffed animals.

I had a reckoning with my relationship with Disneyland, and Disney Parks in general, a number of years ago when it was evident Disney had intentionally shifted the tone of the parks to a collection of IP brand experiences. Not gonna lie the changes were frustrating to me.

The outcome of my reassessment was that I no longer had a strong desire to visit as often and I'm now somewhat ambivalent about most of the changes they make. I see the parks, and Walt Disney, a bit more objectively, and I'm happy about that. For the most part coming here and chatting about them from time to time is enough to satisfy my interest.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
The main reason I like the Native Attack Sequence and it's probably my favorite bit on the ride is it reminds me of King Kong. I like the imagery of the skulls, the helmets and encampments. Classic 1930s jungle adventure romanticism. If it was ever offensive to you, sorry.

I loved it for that reason too. However, the brave white explorer encountering dangerous savages is a problematic viewpoint. Its like the Indians in Peter Pan. They don't have to be racist in their actions, but even their inclusion in the story is racist.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I loved it for that reason too. However, the brave white explorer encountering dangerous savages is a problematic viewpoint. Its like the Indians in Peter Pan. They don't have to be racist in their actions, but even their inclusion in the story is racist.

I know this keeps being said but where does it say the explorers are white? Aren’t we the people boarding the Jungle Cruise boats, the explorers? In which case we re all different races
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
I know this keeps being said but where does it say the explorers are white? Aren’t we the people boarding the Jungle Cruise boats, the explorers? In which case we re all different races

Its the tropes the ride plays off of. The colonists exploring the savage untamed lands. We even befriend one at the end, even though he's still dangerous, we are able to laugh at him, so its okay.
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
I loved it for that reason too. However, the brave white explorer encountering dangerous savages is a problematic viewpoint. Its like the Indians in Peter Pan. They don't have to be racist in their actions, but even their inclusion in the story is racist.

I've never viewed the African Natives in the attraction as savages, just like no one views the Native Americans along the Rivers of America as savages. African Natives are a culture that exists, and African Natives defending their territory is also a thing that exists.

I've always viewed the ride as, well, a jungle expedition- and in this case the tribe is defending their native land... which every civilization ever has done.

I can understand saying that the depiction isn't accurate and is therefore insensitive- whether that be the character design, costumes, the chanting- but to say having African Natives included at all is racist doesn't make sense to me.

Perhaps removing the 'attack' segment, and modifying the 'dancing' portion to be more accurate both in character design, set design, and costuming- and rewriting the script to not joke about that bit in particular could be a way to have traditional African culture represented in a way that's tasteful- like the Native Americans along the Rivers of America.

And the more I think about it the more I like my African restaurant replacing Tropical Hideaway idea- since I'm not a huge fan of Tiki culture and it'd be a beautiful extension of the Jungle Cruise, which is heavily inspired by Africa.
 

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