WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
If you think CoP, Space Mountain, and TTA are all solid, you haven't been over there in a while then. (This is only maintenance wise of course) They need desperate expensive help.
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Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining
- Thread starter Rteetz
- Start date
Horizons1
Well-Known Member
Who cares though? If they wanted this obese animatronic out on a river let them. Some people may not like it but that doesn’t mean they have to get it removed.
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
Went there in 2019. All fine. I think Disney fans exaggerate how much maintenance an attraction needs. Although it definitely could help improve things.
castlecake2.0
Well-Known Member
You can say the same for the removal of trader Sam, Disney decided they didn’t want to have it in their attraction anymore, “some people may not like it but it doesn’t mean they have to keep it”.
Disone
Well-Known Member
Is that a thing though? No one really thinks of Americans as a 600-pound man selling corn dogs. Maybe a 600-pound man eating corn dogs but definitely not selling them.
This reminds me of El Rio de Tempo at Epcot when they took out the Mexican market salesmen. They would follow your boat from screen to screen trying to pitch some goods at you. Of course your boat just kept going but they kept their sales pitch just in case they could change your mind. Apparently somewhere along the way someone decided that was offensive because yes it's a stereotype. I just don't know that it's a particularly offensive stereotype. To this day when I go to Mexico... Say Cozumel, and I walked the streets I'll inevitably get a sales pitch for something. I'm not offended by it. I kind of expect it to happen. I almost want it to happen. But always perplexed me that they remove that from the ride and for much of the same reason Trader Sam might be a stereotype I'm also perplexed as to why he was removed. I don't know that he was offensive.
I'm probably just not woke enough or my skin is too thick or a good mix of both.
GladToBeHear
Well-Known Member
This is because "racism" has been misconstrued into anything that has to do with race or culture. Which is not what racism is.Is that a thing though? No one really thinks of Americans as a 600-pound man selling corn dogs. Maybe a 600-pound man eating corn dogs but definitely not selling them.
This reminds me of El Rio de Tempo at Epcot when they took out the Mexican market salesmen. They would follow your boat from screen to screen trying to pitch some goods at you. Of course your boat just kept going but they kept their sales pitch just in case they could change your mind. Apparently somewhere along the way someone decided that was offensive because yes it's a stereotype. I just don't know that it's a particularly offensive stereotype. To this day when I go to Mexico... Say Cozumel, and I walked the streets I'll inevitably get a sales pitch for something. I'm not offended by it. I kind of expect it to happen. I almost want it to happen. But always perplexed me that they remove that from the ride and for much of the same reason Trader Sam might be a stereotype I'm also perplexed as to why he was removed. I don't know that he was offensive.
I'm probably just not woke enough or my skin is too thick or a good mix of both.
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
Interesting. “Trader Sam” may not even be “Trader Sam” after all.
He’s still Trader Sam though.
Parker in NYC
Well-Known Member
You had me, kind of, until this last line. Can we stop talking in hashtags and clichés and use our words instead?
castlecake2.0
Well-Known Member
I remember that scene as well, and it may not be offensive to you as an (I’m assuming) American, it may not be how Disney wants it guests from Mexico to see themselves presented. I worked for a cruise line, and like you said, you got these types of people at every port, but if you walked a couple of blocks past the port area you could see the “real” place and culture you were in. I also worked at Epcot, and I can tell you that my roommate from Mexico was very happy with the update; “of course we have people like that at home, but that doesn’t mean it has to be in our boat ride”.Is that a thing though? No one really thinks of Americans as a 600-pound man selling corn dogs. Maybe a 600-pound man eating corn dogs but definitely not selling them.
This reminds me of El Rio de Tempo at Epcot when they took out the Mexican market salesmen. They would follow your boat from screen to screen trying to pitch some goods at you. Of course your boat just kept going but they kept their sales pitch just in case they could change your mind. Apparently somewhere along the way someone decided that was offensive because yes it's a stereotype. I just don't know that it's a particularly offensive stereotype. To this day when I go to Mexico... Say Cozumel, and I walked the streets I'll inevitably get a sales pitch for something. I'm not offended by it. I kind of expect it to happen. I almost want it to happen. But always perplexed me that they remove that from the ride and for much of the same reason Trader Sam might be a stereotype I'm also perplexed as to why he was removed. I don't know that he was offensive.
I'm probably just not woke enough or my skin is too thick or a good mix of both.
It could be argued that O’Canada was one of the first cultural sensitivity changes back in 2007. I’m sure no American was offended by the stereotypes presented in the film, but guests from Canada were not thrilled, enough so that the government eventually became involved for an update.
GladToBeHear
Well-Known Member
Sorry that other users on a public forum aren't saying what you want them to.
People who live in Mexico don't experience the U.S. tourist version of Mexico. Thus, it's not a very good presentation of Mexican culture.Is that a thing though? No one really thinks of Americans as a 600-pound man selling corn dogs. Maybe a 600-pound man eating corn dogs but definitely not selling them.
This reminds me of El Rio de Tempo at Epcot when they took out the Mexican market salesmen. They would follow your boat from screen to screen trying to pitch some goods at you. Of course your boat just kept going but they kept their sales pitch just in case they could change your mind. Apparently somewhere along the way someone decided that was offensive because yes it's a stereotype. I just don't know that it's a particularly offensive stereotype. To this day when I go to Mexico... Say Cozumel, and I walked the streets I'll inevitably get a sales pitch for something. I'm not offended by it. I kind of expect it to happen. I almost want it to happen. But always perplexed me that they remove that from the ride and for much of the same reason Trader Sam might be a stereotype I'm also perplexed as to why he was removed. I don't know that he was offensive.
I'm probably just not woke enough or my skin is too thick or a good mix of both.
Remember, EPCOT's supposed to educate, not reinforce the American-abroad tourist trap experience.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Can you expand on this? I don't remember details of it to know what might have been offensive
Parker in NYC
Well-Known Member
I'll rephrase. Wouldn't it be lovely if people stopped using hashtags and clichés while discussing topics like these? There, does that work for you?
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
Sharon&Susan
Well-Known Member
Chief Namee was a name made up by WDW CMs for the Trader fellow because in the script that they initially gave to the Skippers he was called Chief (Name). Eventually it was done away in the 90's when they unified the scripts of both US Parks JC.
Guess they brought it back for Skipper's Canteen because the two Traders look nothing alike making no sense from a world building perspective.
castlecake2.0
Well-Known Member
Long story short, the movie featured a lot of outdated scenes with non Canadian narrators trying to imitate Canadian accents. While offensive may not be the right word, Canadians didn’t find the film to be the most accurate anymore as it was really pushing the Bob and Doug Mackenzie stereotypes. It eventually made its way into the newspapers and eventually the Canadian Tourism Commission joined in and gave funding to Disney to help update the movie. If you Google “Toronto Star Epcot Canada” the article should come up.
^^^ please see above
Parker in NYC
Well-Known Member
I wonder when Germany's going to update the oom-pah-pah experience. Surely there's room for the Berlin Street Art Museum. I kid, I kid. I just had to throw it in.
WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
lol nooooo my dude... I rode it last August and the background music was totally lost on an entire scene and it had apparently been that way for quite a while without being fixed! Literally singing "great big beautiful tomorrow" to no music.
On top of that, AA stiffness, platform creaks, unbalanced audio in other locations... It's bad.
(Has the audio issue been fixed yet?)
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
With that, I think I’ll take back the “ambiguous ethnicity” assessment. Seems to be a indigenous caricature. But that’s where things get a little tricky. Is it bad that he is a caricature. We aren’t dealing with the Peter Pan chief, with the bright red skin, the inaccurate song, the big nose. This is more or less just cartoonified human.
Again, I think the issue more or less lies with the shrunken heads and his “profession” than the appearance of the AA itself. I think a costume alteration, a proper name change, and a change of wares would do the most good, but that’s just me.
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
I think it was the imagery of the humorous 'native' that was the issue with Florida's Sam. I always assumed he was supposed to be South American from the hat & from having seen shrunken heads in Ecuador where I know this was practiced, though I don't know if it was also practiced historically elsewhere.
As for Trader Sam's, I don't think we need to take a "cut off your nose to spite your face" attitude and demand they change everything if they're going to change anything. Surely we can be happy if they take a reasoned and selective approach to updating attractions whether we agree with each decision rather than demanding they take a blowtorch to anything that can be read as problematic?