Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

[Brer Panther]

Sooooooooo, uh, have the Jungle Cruise skippers been making jokes about the blank space where Trader Sam/Chief Namee once stood?

The irony in that there once WAS a Brer Rabbit pub.

What was it called? Do you mean Disneyland's Brer Bar?

 

[LittleBuford]

I was joking. Seen Princess Bride?

Oh, I know you were joking, but I wanted to make clear that my question was sincere. (And of course I've seen The Princess Bride!)

I don’t care that deeply about Sam. As long as the new jokes are as funny as the old, I’m game. Trader Sam wasn’t the original character in MK, anyway.

Agreed!

 

[Giss Neric]

Racism doesn’t have to be “hating” other races, and i think that’s where most people get caught up.

Under the guise of fun and games, things can still be racist. Trader Sam and the “exotic/dangerous” themes of the Jungle Cruise are ultimately caricatured versions of native people.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Chief Namee was a name made up by WDW CMs for the Trader fellow because in the script that they initially gave to the Skippers he was called Chief (Name). Eventually it was done away in the 90's when they unified the scripts of both US Parks JC.

Guess they brought it back for Skipper's Canteen because the two Traders look nothing alike making no sense from a world building perspective.

He was called Trader Sam when I worked WDW's Jungle Cruise in 1976/1977 (And, yes, I can still do my darn spiel from memory)

 

[JustInTime]

It would be so nice if these people who complained actually followed through on their threats to never come back to the parks again.

“There are worst things in the world than focusing on removing an animatronic”

Honey, it probably took two workers, a drill and a dolly.

That’s what people don’t get. Nobody is complaining. What’s happening is a team of people is evaluating attractions with the perspective of 2021 eyes and seeing where Disney can do better or improve. They are looking for things that may not seem totally tone deaf but will seem outrageous that even happened in 10 or 20 years. Like so many other things that have come and gone over time.

We will not agree with most of the changes but so is life. I totally disagree with Sam’s removal. Will I feel differently in 10 years? Maybe.

 

[WillWrambles]

What was it called? Do you mean Disneyland's Brer Bar?

I in fact do mean the Brer Bar!

 

[Skipper Dan]

Racism doesn’t have to be “hating” other races, and i think that’s where most people get caught up.

Under the guise of fun and games, things can still be racist. Trader Sam and the “exotic/dangerous” themes of the Jungle Cruise are ultimately caricatured versions of native people.

... and I feel the Country Bear Jamboree makes fun of my family’s history of country music, the Oprys I grew up singin’ in, and depicts southerners such as myself as lacking intelligence and having bad teeth.
But I still laugh at the jokes.
There’s an old quote that says, “what we see depends mainly on what we look for”.
You can choose to see Sam as a “racist caricature”, or rather a man who found a top hat and decided to cleverly capitalize on the invading colonists.

Your choice.

Ironically, those the character could rightfully — yet, albeit unlikely to — offend, are still out in what little wilds that are left, and prefer to be there.

 

[GladToBeHear]

Serious question: Is anyone’s enjoyment of the Jungle Cruise really contingent on the presence of this one character? People are acting as if the heart and soul of the ride have been ripped out.

It's not the removal of this one character. It's the slippery slope.

 

[GladToBeHear]

Racism doesn’t have to be “hating” other races, and i think that’s where most people get caught up.

Under the guise of fun and games, things can still be racist. Trader Sam and the “exotic/dangerous” themes of the Jungle Cruise are ultimately caricatured versions of native people.

This is where context could go a long way.

 

[LittleBuford]

It's not the removal of this one character. It's the slippery slope.

This is always the argument against such changes. It strikes me as unduly alarmist, especially when we know that much of the ride is being left unchanged.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

It's not the removal of this one character. It's the slippery slope.

Ever hear of the "Slippery Slope Fallacy"?

There's no need to condemn this for concern of what it *might* lead to. Either condemn the action on its own terms or don't bother condemning it.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

The quote is, “no current plans”. But that’s PR speak for they don’t feel like dealing with the public outcry yet. Means nothing.

They can’t remove a character for being a head hunter and not remove the head hunter effects and drink from Trader Sams.

As I said in the people mover thread about it changing to rocket rods...no one ever talks about making changes they just do it.

 

[Brer Oswald]

This is always the argument against such changes. It strikes me as unduly alarmist, especially when we know that much of the ride is being left unchanged.

There are instances where the slippery slope does apply. Just because many examples are ridiculous, I don’t think it’s right to write them all off. But that’s just me.

 

[LittleBuford]

There are instances where the slippery slope does apply. Just because many examples are ridiculous, I don’t think it’s right to write them all off. But that’s just me.

But slippery slopes reveal themselves as such only in restrospect. To automatically assume that we’re at the beginning of a slippery slope—even when the available evidence suggests the opposite—is, I think, alarmist and not conducive to discussion.

 

[castlecake2.0]

People keep saying “oh it doesn’t bother me”, I’m not offended”, “I can laugh at these stereotypes” etc are missing the point. Disney doesn’t care what you may or may not think is acceptable. Disney is making these decisions based on what they themselves think is acceptable. If they feel better by not stereotyping a head hunting native, then it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks, that’s their decision.

 

[Brer Oswald]

People keep saying “oh it doesn’t bother me”, I’m not offended”, “I can laugh at these stereotypes” etc are missing the point. Disney doesn’t care what you may or may not think is acceptable. Disney is making these decisions based on what they themselves think is acceptable. If they feel better by not stereotyping a head hunting native, then it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks, that’s their decision.

It’s what they think the audience thinks is acceptable.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Serious question: Is anyone’s enjoyment of the Jungle Cruise really contingent on the presence of this one character? People are acting as if the heart and soul of the ride have been ripped out.

I’m with you on this...

The reaction is surprising... we’ve all known this was coming. And I mean, Sam was always a throw away character.

 

[FigmentsFangirl]

The haters can hate me if they want, but I never really was much amused by Trader Sam to be honest, as a kid I was actually kinda terrifed of the idea of shrunken heads {still am truth be told} As an adult I've come to see the genius behind the characters, the workmanship of the model makers to make a model. but lets be real here, its been stated before, Disney is doing this because they feel it should changfe and be more "in the times"

I never recalled Jungle Cruise or even Juingle Cruise as having a story to it like the other rides {pirates, Haunted Mansion, Peter Pan, even the dumbo or space mountain have stories behind them to help sell the ride as a fun experience}

Walt himself was always looking at a ride, riding it and thinking "What is wrong with it and how can we do better ?" So in this update to Jungle Cruise, Disney is trying to do as its namesake creator was doing and making it better. Even if it makes people, die hard fans of the ride for example, upset, Disney doesnt care, they see something not working, they wanna fix it and make it work right. somehow they want to add a story to Jungle Cruise, I say let them, I want to see it with a good story, and I'm a sucker for a good story {its how I got sucked into Skyrim, but that's another story entirely!}

So me, like I said, the haters can rant at me all they like, I for one am excited for these changes.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

The haters can hate me if they want, but I never really was much amused by Trader Sam to be honest, as a kid I was actually kinda terrifed of the idea of shrunken heads {still am truth be told} As an adult I've come to see the genius behind the characters, the workmanship of the model makers to make a model. but lets be real here, its been stated before, Disney is doing this because they feel it should changfe and be more "in the times"

I never recalled Jungle Cruise or even Juingle Cruise as having a story to it like the other rides {pirates, Haunted Mansion, Peter Pan, even the dumbo or space mountain have stories behind them to help sell the ride as a fun experience}

Walt himself was always looking at a ride, riding it and thinking "What is wrong with it and how can we do better ?" So in this update to Jungle Cruise, Disney is trying to do as its namesake creator was doing and making it better. Even if it makes people, die hard fans of the ride for example, upset, Disney doesnt care, they see something not working, they wanna fix it and make it work right. somehow they want to add a story to Jungle Cruise, I say let them, I want to see it with a good story, and I'm a sucker for a good story {its how I got sucked into Skyrim, but that's another story entirely!}

So me, like I said, the haters can rant at me all they like, I for one am excited for these changes.

Haunted Mansion has the same basic story as the Jungle Cruise- Tour X and hope to survive the dangers ahead while the guide cracks jokes.

I guess you could argue that HM gives more hints at a backstory (which doesn't really exist in a firm cemented form), but you're naturally going to get more out of an old haunted house filled with spirits rather than a ride that its core is about looking at animals.

I also don't get how Space Mountain or (especially) Dumbo have any more story than the Jungle Cruise.

 

[Disone]

You had me, kind of, until this last line. Can we stop talking in hashtags and clichés and use our words instead?

That was kind of my point in that last comment.