Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

[Kgp0793]

I'd invite you to visit the Disneyland sub-forum, where actual people of color who frequent the parks are discussing the changes. Spoiler alert: you're not on the same side.

Your posts are coming across as ridiculously childish.

much better discussion here

 

[BeautifulTomorrow]

Funny how Disney seems to have no problem allocating money during the pandemic towards re theming of existing and popular attractions but they have to slash things like the Epcot overhaul because of the financial presure Covid has put on the Parks. I want my Yeti fix dang it.

I definitely agree that it seems strange, but my thought is that they are trying to spread out the money to do as many projects as possible, even if it means some of the bigger ones get major alterations. Is it a good plan? We will see I guess!

 

[BeautifulTomorrow]

What is the "New Animated Skipper?" Are the boats getting a screen or is the queue getting a pre-ride movie?

I think the skipper will be on the totem pole? It looks like they're going to completely reskin the AAs.

 

[Horizons1]

I'd invite you to visit the Disneyland sub-forum, where actual people of color who frequent the parks are discussing the changes. Spoiler alert: you're not on the same side.

Your posts are coming across as ridiculously childish.

When you say people of color who does that include? Anyone that isn’t white, only black people, etc. Before I get attacked here I’m honestly asking who that phrase includes for better context of these arguments.

 

[Mickey2021]

When you say people of color who does that include? Anyone that isn’t white, only black people, etc. Before I get attacked here I’m honestly asking who that phrase includes for better context of these arguments.

I'm half black and I hate what they are doing to splash. I see it as a token change. Why can't we have both the original ride that is based on African folk tales and a new ride for Tiana? Apparently us "folk" can only have one ride representing our culture? How racist is that. I should start a new petition about this!

 

[doctornick]

Just for the sake of completeness, can we clarify what we actually know about the changes for the ride at this point? From the DPB post, it seems like we know two things are changing for sure...

1. The "Rhino and people on the pole" is having the characters change. The concern here seems to be that most of the people on the pole (in DL at least) are people of color. For MK, they were changed a while ago and are more diverse (though one still wears a Fez). The new scene will be similar but the party will be more diverse and have specific characteristics (with one being a "skipper"). Images below copied from Yesterland and DPB.

Disneyland

Magic Kingdom

New scene

2. The "natives" who "attack the boat" will be replaced by a sunken boat which has been taken over by chimpanzees. To further the story, the 5 chimps will bear characteristics of the 5 people on the pole with the rhino.

New scene

3. "Trader Sam" may or may not be removed with @WDW Pro seeming to imply that he'll be gone.

Is this a correct assessment of the plan?

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

When you say people of color who does that include? Anyone that isn’t white, only black people, etc. Before I get attacked here I’m honestly asking who that phrase includes for better context of these arguments.

I'm specifically referring to @raven24 and @Dr. Hans Reinhardt , who have offered several very thoughtful posts over there on how they view these scenes from their perspective. I don't want to assume their race, but I believe that they are both African American.

The rest of this post is not directed to you, @Horizons1, just general thoughts on the subject.

I guess my perspective as a white person is simply that I do not get to decide whether a depiction of another race is acceptable or inoffensive to the very group that it is representing. Seems pretty simple to me. The problems with the depictions of native people in JC is not exactly a new discussion; so I'm unsure why so many of you are trying to pretend as though it is.

As a gay man, I would find it pretty discomposing if a large group of straight people were trying to convince me that a stereotypical depiction of a member of my community shouldn't offend me simply on the predicate that it doesn't offend them.

 

[SirLink]

Just for the sake of completeness, can we clarify what we actually know about the changes for the ride at this point? From the DPB post, it seems like we know two things are changing for sure...

1. The "Rhino and people on the pole" is having the characters change. The concern here seems to be that most of the people on the pole (in DL at least) are people of color. For MK, they were changed a while ago and are more diverse (though one still wears a Fez). The new scene will be similar but the party will be more diverse and have specific characteristics (with one being a "skipper"). Images below copied from Yesterland and DPB.

View attachment 526798
Disneyland

View attachment 526799
Magic Kingdom

View attachment 526801
New scene

2. The "natives" who "attack the boat" will be replaced by a sunken boat which has been taken over by chimpanzees. To further the story, the 5 chimps will bear characteristics of the 5 people on the pole with the rhino.

View attachment 526805

View attachment 526806

View attachment 526802
New scene

3. "Trader Sam" may or may not be removed with @WDW Pro seeming to imply that he'll be gone.

Is this a correct assessment of the plan?

When you put it like that it doesn't seem that bad, it'll be annoying for some users as they will have less representation. Trader Sam has to stay though he is the only iconic character. Removing him would be like removing the hitchhiking ghosts from Mansion.

 

[_caleb]

Everyone has bias and would love to know how I'm being dishonest by not being SJW lol.

Sorry, that was poorly worded on my part. When I wrote “It’s alright to be honest and fair even if nobody is offended by your dishonesty and bias.” I meant “It’s alright for a person to be honest and fair even if nobody is offended by that person’s dishonesty and bias.”

The dishonesty part comes in perpetuating stereotypes that continue to reinforce prejudice. I’m not sure what you mean by not being SJW, but I don’t think you do, either.

 

[_caleb]

Look. I get updating the attraction. But "more inclusive"? Hardly. It's a bunch of white skippers stuck up on that pole. But maybe in this SJW woke world, they're guilty of being white and deserve it.

This isn’t the threat to your existence you might think it is.

 

[BeautifulTomorrow]

Just for the sake of completeness, can we clarify what we actually know about the changes for the ride at this point? From the DPB post, it seems like we know two things are changing for sure...

1. The "Rhino and people on the pole" is having the characters change. The concern here seems to be that most of the people on the pole (in DL at least) are people of color. For MK, they were changed a while ago and are more diverse (though one still wears a Fez). The new scene will be similar but the party will be more diverse and have specific characteristics (with one being a "skipper"). Images below copied from Yesterland and DPB.

View attachment 526798
Disneyland

View attachment 526799
Magic Kingdom

View attachment 526801
New scene

2. The "natives" who "attack the boat" will be replaced by a sunken boat which has been taken over by chimpanzees. To further the story, the 5 chimps will bear characteristics of the 5 people on the pole with the rhino.

View attachment 526805

View attachment 526806

View attachment 526802
New scene

3. "Trader Sam" may or may not be removed with @WDW Pro seeming to imply that he'll be gone.

Is this a correct assessment of the plan?

Yeah, thanks! I think they are going to replace Trader Sam with a different scene, but avoided announcing that part so people didn't get too upset (see above upset people^) lol

 

[Magicart87]

Just for the sake of completeness, can we clarify what we actually know about the changes for the ride at this point? From the DPB post, it seems like we know two things are changing for sure...

1. The "Rhino and people on the pole" is having the characters change. The concern here seems to be that most of the people on the pole (in DL at least) are people of color. For MK, they were changed a while ago and are more diverse (though one still wears a Fez). The new scene will be similar but the party will be more diverse and have specific characteristics (with one being a "skipper"). Images below copied from Yesterland and DPB.

View attachment 526798
Disneyland

View attachment 526799
Magic Kingdom

View attachment 526801
New scene

2. The "natives" who "attack the boat" will be replaced by a sunken boat which has been taken over by chimpanzees. To further the story, the 5 chimps will bear characteristics of the 5 people on the pole with the rhino.

View attachment 526805

View attachment 526806

View attachment 526802
New scene

3. "Trader Sam" may or may not be removed with @WDW Pro seeming to imply that he'll be gone.

Is this a correct assessment of the plan?

That is how the parks blurb reads but I'm not entirely sure if It's accurate or that my understanding of it is correct unless the new linear backstory is being told in reverse. Is it? When comparing the images above, the previous natives scene took place on land whereas the new chimp scene takes place on the water. Are we certain it's the same location? Don't know. Can someone clarify? Wouldn't it make more sense to have the chimps scene BEFORE the new Pole/Rhino scene? And, I still think there's another scene that aren't disclosing just yet.

 

[SirLink]

Sorry, that was poorly worded on my part. When I wrote “It’s alright to be honest and fair even if nobody is offended by your dishonesty and bias.” I meant “It’s alright for a person to be honest and fair even if nobody is offended by that person’s dishonesty and bias.”

The dishonesty part comes in perpetuating stereotypes that continue to reinforce prejudice. I’m not sure what you mean by not being SJW, but I don’t think you do, either.

You came across as a social justice warrior, that is why I said it because typically they attack people for not sharing their same views.

 

[BeautifulTomorrow]

Its not a history lesson its a ride in a theme park. It

To be fair could keep name and just change him....less heads....more caucasian complexion for example. Or any number of things but still technically have a "trader sam"

I agree they could definitely do that but would that be better? I think keeping the figure just for the sake of his name is pointless, the whole joke of the scene is cannibalism/head shrinking. So replacing the entire scene just seems to make more sense than reworking the existing one for the sake of the name "Trader Sam".

 

[MovieFan28]

Yeah, don't attack people for their views like that Caleb.
Your be no better than Twitter.

 

[asianway]

I'm half black and I hate what they are doing to splash. I see it as a token change. Why can't we have both the original ride that is based on African folk tales and a new ride for Tiana? Apparently us "folk" can only have one ride representing our culture? How racist is that. I should start a new petition about this!

Would you agree there’s a huge difference between Splash & Trader Sam?

 

[rylouisbo]

I'm specifically referring to @raven24 and @Dr. Hans Reinhardt , who have offered several very thoughtful posts over there on how they view these scenes from their perspective. I don't want to assume their race, but I believe that they are both African American.

The rest of this post is not directed to you, @Horizons1, just general thoughts on the subject.

I guess my perspective as a white person is simply that I do not get to decide whether a depiction of another race is acceptable or inoffensive to the very group that it is representing. Seems pretty simple to me. The problems with the depictions of native people in JC is not exactly a new discussion; so I'm unsure why so many of you are trying to pretend as though it is.

As a gay man, I would find it pretty discomposing if a large group of straight people were trying to convince me that a stereotypical depiction of a member of my community shouldn't offend me simply on the predicate that it doesn't offend them.

But all you’re doing is saying I’m not a person of color so my opinion matter but here look at these people of color that agree with me.
As seen in this thread there are people of color who don’t agree with you but you choose to ignore their, by your standard, more important opinion.
Seems like you’re simply using people of color to defend your thoughts. They can speak for themselves.

to reiterate. I don’t think people actually care that they are updating the ride. It’s the senseless pandering that annoys people especially as they prove again and again to ignore much bigger offensive things.

 

[_caleb]

How is it not? Its not been a problem for the last 65 years where people laugh at the scene when people hear the skipper dialogue.

Did you know there were real headhunter tribes? the people who are going to the parks don't find its insensitive. Its the people who find offence at the slightest sign. The great Stephen Fry has a great quote on offence :

Your posts here remind me of Thanksgiving when I was a kid. I had a old uncle who often told off-color jokes and used mildly racist slurs for shock value. When we didn’t laugh, he accused us of not having a sense of humor and insisted we needed to lighten up.

Jokes that were funny 65 years ago played on the fact that few people traveled widely or had much interaction with people outside their own cultures. Now that we have seen the negative impact of those jokes told at the expense of others, we need to change.

If someone you loved told you that they were hurt by something you did, wouldn’t you want to stop doing that thing? Or maybe at least hear them out to make sure they knew that your intention wasn’t to hurt them?

 

[MovieFan28]

But all you’re doing is saying I’m not a person of color so my opinion matter but here look at these people of color that agree with me.
As seen in this thread there are people of color who don’t agree with you but you choose to ignore their, by your standard, more important opinion.
Seems like you’re simply using people of color to defend your thoughts. They can speak for themselves.

to reiterate. I don’t think people actually care that they are updating the ride. It’s the senseless pandering that annoys people especially as they prove again and again to ignore much bigger offensive things.

Agree, I'm not affected by splash mountain or jungle cruise as a white male.
I asked my friends who come from multiple different backgrounds, some who have had stories of actual racism in their families, and they don't find anything wrong with splash mountain or jungle cruise as they are right now. None of them like this stuff Disney is pulling. They see it as pandering junk and would rather them just refurbish the ride as is and work on new rides instead.
Disney doesn't understand this, and it will backfire completely.

 

[JohnD]

I'm half black and I hate what they are doing to splash. I see it as a token change. Why can't we have both the original ride that is based on African folk tales and a new ride for Tiana? Apparently us "folk" can only have one ride representing our culture? How racist is that. I should start a new petition about this!

I dunno. Apparently, it's racist to depict a successful African American woman on a bottle of maple syrup so the solution is to remove African American representation from society. Splash, OTOH, has no African American representation but it's based on a racist movie, so has to go. So replace it with Princess and the Frog. Does it become racist if Tiana is used as the logo just as Aunt Jemimah was on the syrup bottle?