Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

[UNCgolf]

They could just change the name to Trader Stan and put this guy in the ride:

 

[MovieFan28]

This is different than Splash though. The proposal for Splash is a total redo - taking out a theme and atmosphere people love (that also fits into the land) and based on the budget projections that are rumored not replacing it with much substance (again rumored budget). The fear is real though because Splash has so many animatronics and is so beloved and people fear those things that make it so special will go away in favor of screens or whatever. It’s all unknown so it’s hard to debate that point really. (Although the in WDW the new theme won’t fit at all and THAT SHOULD matter but I digress.)

However, the point remains it’s a much more drastic and controversial decision than simply updating Jungle Cruise and adding some story. They aren’t fundamentally changing what the jungle Cruise is, what it’s appeal is, or shoehorning IP into ... so in reality they are finally doing what we all have begged them to do with these updates ... don’t muck with the formula, don’t fundamentally change the attraction, don’t take out random things for pointless reasons, and don’t shove random IP into it and for that I’m so grateful. I feel like with this redo they FINALLY get what we actually want. Hopefully, it’s a good sign.

Is the removing of the cannibals stupid because it’s offensive to the cannibal community? Of course. But all in all this is nothing like Splash and should be applauded because they aren’t messing with the formula.

that’s my two cents.

Then why use the same excuse for splash mountains redo with them saying it for diversity?

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

okay. How do AA's get properly included in products today, not limited to just the JC?

What race is "Betty Crocker"?

What products and how do we include whomever?

Betty Crocker is a fictional person, historically depicted as a white woman.

 

[LittleBuford]

I found a website that quotes from a 1971 newsletter called Walt Disney World News. Here's the passage about Trader Sam (or "Salesman Sam" as they name him):

And waiting around the final bend to welcome guests back to civilization is "Salesman Sam," the South American headhunter, dangling his copious supply of shrunken heads, attempting to entice guests to either become a purchaser or a "purchase."​

For what it's worth, I had always interpreted him to be a caricature of a South American "tribesman".

Here's the website:

omniluxe.net - omniluxe Resources and Information.

omniluxe.net is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, omniluxe.net has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

www.omniluxe.net

Regarding the figures climbing up the pole to escape the rhino, they were already changed some years ago at WDW. The old version:

The current version:

Were people similarly outraged by this update at the time it was made?

 

[Sue_Vongello]

Then why use the same excuse for splash mountains redo with them saying it for diversity?

I don’t get that it’s the main driving force behind the change based on the Disney Parks Blog post. But it very well could be the driving force for the change but either way - again they aren’t fundamentally changing the attraction. I have to stress the attraction is staying the same which is way more than can be said for Splash Mountain, so I have to be grateful for that. If we complain about everything we’ll never win.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

I found a website that quotes from a 1971 newsletter called Walt Disney World News. Here's the passage about Trader Sam (or "Salesman Sam" as they name him):

And waiting around the final bend to welcome guests back to civilization is "Salesman Sam," the South American headhunter, dangling his copious supply of shrunken heads, attempting to entice guests to either become a purchaser or a "purchase."​

For what it's worth, I had always interpreted him to be a caricature of a South American "tribesman".

Here's the website:

omniluxe.net - omniluxe Resources and Information.

omniluxe.net is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, omniluxe.net has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

www.omniluxe.net

Regarding the figures climbing up the pole to escape the rhino, they were already changed some years ago at WDW. The old version:

The current version:

Were people similarly outraged by this update at the time it was made?

Twitter wasn't around then so who knows?!

 

[KeithVH]

Ah, the search for betty Crocker . . .

 

[TalkingHead]

Betty Crocker is a fictional person, historically depicted as a white woman.

How do we know she's not passing as white? Somebody should ask her in order to verify.

 

[matt9112]

No one asked for my opinion, but I’m giving it anyway. Social issues aside, this attraction is stale and needs new energy put into it. I’m glad they’re doing this.

In reality....it will likely have less...if skippers roles are deminished and no new AAs etc...theres no real budget here....your not going to get a subjectively better product...your getting ketchup instead of mustard.

 

[Brer Panther]

This is different than Splash though. The proposal for Splash is a total redo - taking out a theme and atmosphere people love (that also fits into the land) and based on the budget projections that are rumored not replacing it with much substance (again rumored budget). The fear is real though because Splash has so many animatronics and is so beloved and people fear those things that make it so special will go away in favor of screens or whatever. It’s all unknown so it’s hard to debate that point really. (Although the in WDW the new theme won’t fit at all and THAT SHOULD matter but I digress.)

However, the point remains it’s a much more drastic and controversial decision than simply updating Jungle Cruise and adding some story. They aren’t fundamentally changing what the jungle Cruise is, what it’s appeal is, or shoehorning IP into ... so in reality they are finally doing what we all have begged them to do with these updates ... don’t muck with the formula, don’t fundamentally change the attraction, don’t take out random things for pointless reasons, and don’t shove random IP into it and for that I’m so grateful. I feel like with this redo they FINALLY get what we actually want. Hopefully, it’s a good sign.

Is the removing of the cannibals stupid because it’s offensive to the cannibal community? Of course. But all in all this is nothing like Splash and should be applauded because they aren’t messing with the formula.

What you said.

Then why use the same excuse for splash mountains redo with them saying it for diversity?

Because they're afraid to come out and admit that they bowed to Frederick Chambers and his fans out of fear of a Disney+ boycott.

 

[LittleBuford]

Twitter wasn't around then so who knows?!

This is precisely why it pays to remind ourselves that such changes are in no way new or unprecedented. So many of the rants in this thread (and other threads related to issues of diversity and representation) wilfully ignore the fact that societal attitudes are always shifting and that Disney has long been responsive to such shifts. Otherwise, the company would still be sending out letters like this:

 

[Animaniac93-98]

This is different than Splash though. The proposal for Splash is a total redo - taking out a theme and atmosphere people love (that also fits into the land) and based on the budget projections that are rumored not replacing it with much substance (again rumored budget). The fear is real though because Splash has so many animatronics and is so beloved and people fear those things that make it so special will go away in favor of screens or whatever. It’s all unknown so it’s hard to debate that point really. (Although the in WDW the new theme won’t fit at all and THAT SHOULD matter but I digress.)

However, the point remains it’s a much more drastic and controversial decision than simply updating Jungle Cruise and adding some story. They aren’t fundamentally changing what the jungle Cruise is, what it’s appeal is, or shoehorning IP into ... so in reality they are finally doing what we all have begged them to do with these updates ... don’t muck with the formula, don’t fundamentally change the attraction, don’t take out random things for pointless reasons, and don’t shove random IP into it and for that I’m so grateful. I feel like with this redo they FINALLY get what we actually want. Hopefully, it’s a good sign.

Is the removing of the cannibals stupid because it’s offensive to the cannibal community? Of course. But all in all this is nothing like Splash and should be applauded because they aren’t messing with the formula.

that’s my two cents.

That's how I feel too, and not just about Jungle Cruise. If they remove the Indians from Peter Pan's Flight, but keep the rest of it the same, that's not a drastic change. Neither would having 3 of the 4 families in CoP be people of colour for example. Both keep the spirit, tone and imagery of the ride mostly intact.

Adding Muppets to Hall of Presidents or making Splash Mountain "Frog Never After" is a much bigger change and I don't like that.

 

[wdrive]

Out of interest, and please correct me if I’m wrong, is having the voodoo based Dr Facilier in the new Splash Mountain any better than the tribes people in Jungle Cruise?

 

[asianway]

But here's the thing - at least in regards to Trader Sam which seems the most debated concern here: what "race" is Trader Sam? Who gets to decide an "acceptable" way to present him? For reference, here is what the Magic Kingdom version of Trader Sam looks like (note: the DL version of him is more problematic and I would advocate changing him to something more similar to the MK one):

View attachment 526860

This is a cartoonish caricature. It's silly with random props - a hat? an umbrella??? - and doesn't particularly evoke any particular race or culture. And the premise of the joke is that he's a salesman, not a hunter or "savage" or someone attacking you.

He’s got a machete and half a dozen severed heads

 

[Animaniac93-98]

He’s got a machete and half a dozen severed heads

Since 2016 in Tokyo he sells souvenirs instead, but they kept the figure. Do we think Disney could get away with that in Orlando?

 

[JoeCamel]

Since 2016 in Tokyo he sells souvenirs instead, but they kept the figure. Do we think Disney could get away with that in Orlando?

Nah, "animated skipper", has to be a Sam replacement. "Skipper Sam" has a nice ring to it don't you think?

 

[_caleb]

Since 2016 in Tokyo he sells souvenirs instead, but they kept the figure. Do we think Disney could get away with that in Orlando?

Possibly. It's similar to other changes that have been mentioned upthread- a depiction that didn't start out great being changed to be more sensitive often doesn't do quite enough to rid the product (or, in this case, attraction) of the association with the racially insensitive original.

 

[doctornick]

I found a website that quotes from a 1971 newsletter called Walt Disney World News. Here's the passage about Trader Sam (or "Salesman Sam" as they name him):

And waiting around the final bend to welcome guests back to civilization is "Salesman Sam," the South American headhunter, dangling his copious supply of shrunken heads, attempting to entice guests to either become a purchaser or a "purchase."​

I believe that was an older version of Trader Sam. IIRC he was changed from a figure that looked more like Trader Sam at DL into the more cartoony figure that is there today a number of years after MK opened.

Regarding the figures climbing up the pole to escape the rhino, they were already changed some years ago at WDW. The old version:

The current version:

Were people similarly outraged by this update at the time it was made?

I can't speak for anyone else, but at least on this thread there hasn't been much complaining about changing the Rhino figures now either (outside of generally complaints about any changes). In fact, most people here seem to agree that the proposed changes for Jungle Book are sensible unlike Splash Mountain which has generated much more, um, discussion. There's obviously a few dissenters, but that's to be expected. In fact, a lot of folks seem to agree that what we've seen of the proposed changes might even be improvingly the ride or at least neutral and that the ride itself isn't fundamentally changing which is appreciated.

The debate and differences in opinion here has focused mostly on Trader Sam specifically - which interestingly DPB did not mention at all - not the changes overall.

 

[SirLink]

Nah, "animated skipper", has to be a Sam replacement. "Skipper Sam" has a nice ring to it don't you think?

It'll be Skipper Frank.

 

[James J]

As a Brit we are built with self-deprecation humor in from day one, if someone I loved said they were hurt by a remark. I would know they aren't British for a start.

As a Brit myself, you seem to be getting self-deprecating jokes mixed up with mild racism. Wildly different types of remarks, and the latter may well hurt and offend family members.