Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

[wdwgreek]

I'm looking forward to these updates, especially if the new show scenes feature nice AA's and are not static in nature. The Jungle Cruise does best in the scenes where the visual humor is clear, the most irksome parts of the current attraction is it's cringe depictions of "African natives" based on imperialist mid 20th century stereotypes.

 

[wdrive]

I'm looking forward to these updates, especially if the new show scenes feature nice AA's and are not static in nature. The Jungle Cruise does best in the scenes where the visual humor is clear, the most irksome parts of the current attraction is it's cringe depictions of "African natives" based on imperialist mid 20th century stereotypes.

I’m all for these updates, but African tribes peoples have/do exist. Do we pretend they don’t? Destroy any documentation that people were like that? I find that more racist.

 

[Ellen Ripley]

So lets make the head hunters look super realistic than...look problem solved. Heres a serious foreign man that wants to have our heads on a plate. Or is that not a savage lifestyle choice? Or would you rather a sing along?

I posted this in another JC thread, what if they inserted realistic colonizer animatronics? Would that help you understand that just because it happened, doesn't mean it needs to be in the Jungle Cruise?

How Belgium cut off hands and arms, and killed over 15 million in Africa | Texto em inglês com áudio

The Belgium king Leopold II turned a huge piece of Africa into his rural estate, enslaved its people, and left a legacy of misery that lasts until today. Texto em inglês com áudio da Gazeta do Povo.

www.gazetadopovo.com.br

 

[Brer Oswald]

I will try....

I think one overarching issue with the entire attraction would be that it is inherently about colonialism and because of its age it is overt about stereotypes that have long since been understood to be offensive. Beyond TS (which absolutely reinforces what I am about to say), the ride's main thrust is the idea that there is nothing but primitive things out in the jungles. There is no sophistication or advancement. Just animals and people who would misunderstand and attack "western explorers". It treats the people and cultures of the jungles as "oddities" vs just presenting a slapstick trip through the jungles with a delirious skipper. There is a balance there, and I think Disney is seeking to find a better one.

(I would love to see it become more satirical at the expense of the explorers. It seems like they are hinting that way. Heck, they are adding a sinking boat to a ride with a boat that recently sank!)

That’s a very good explanation. Thank you.

 

[zero creativity]

I posted this in another JC thread, what if they inserted realistic colonizer animatronics? Would that help you understand that just because it happened, doesn't mean it needs to be in the Jungle Cruise?

How Belgium cut off hands and arms, and killed over 15 million in Africa | Texto em inglês com áudio

The Belgium king Leopold II turned a huge piece of Africa into his rural estate, enslaved its people, and left a legacy of misery that lasts until today. Texto em inglês com áudio da Gazeta do Povo.

www.gazetadopovo.com.br

That reminds me, i have start planning my lessons on imperialism.

 

[_caleb]

But it's an adventure ride. No one wants to have a chat and a coffee with a fellow in the jungle, they want menace and adventure. And look at the ride overall, the white guys are depicted as ***** or dead. All the people are depicted as caricatures. It's not an educational ride or accurate depiction. It's a wacky jungle adventure. Nearly every pirate in Pirates of the Caribbean is white, even though Pirates were actually very inclusive of all races.... actually, it's racist to not have blacks and hispanics and Asians as pirates, they should get to be included in the fun!

I appreciate you actually engaging on this topic. Thanks. I agree it’s an adventure ride, but real history provides context that we can’t escape here.

Pirates is indeed done in a similar art style (the very talented Marc Davis designed Trader Sam, too), and they are caricatures- exaggerated features that really help show emotion. But that same approach to depicting indigenous people can really be a problem.

One key difference is how different people have historically been treated and then how they’ve been depicted by those who have benefitted from those negative depictions. Making fun of (or depicting as less than human) people who have been abused, exploited, and marginalized is mean, and Disney has expressed a commitment to be more inclusive and diverse, and more welcoming of all guests (who can afford to visit).

 

[_caleb]

So can i honestly ask...is there some advanced industrial city in the jungle circa 1900s ? Parts of the world are less developed thats a fact...its a fact today as it was during the romanticized time period the ride takes place in.

Not an industrial city, but certainly there were (and are!) good, intelligent, and socially-developed people living in the jungle from whom we can learn a lot if we would see them as people rather than somehow “less than us.”

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The “natives dancing” and throwing Spears is not a big loss. Hopefully they replace the spears with the attacking piranhas from California.. that’s a similar “beat” in the story and I think a more fun effect anyways.

But trader Sam should absolutely stay. Witch doctors and shrunken heads are real, there is nothing racist about them as far as I can figure.

 

[_caleb]

So lets make the head hunters look super realistic than...look problem solved. Heres a serious foreign man that wants to have our heads on a plate. Or is that not a savage lifestyle choice? Or would you rather a sing along?

Your mocking tone makes it difficult to engage with you. I’m not making fun of you. I’d apprecitate it if you didn’t make fun of my perspective.

It’s not just about the realism of the character, it’s also about the selective nature of the depiction. When the scenes highlight the extremes for the sake of amplifying the “foreignness” and “savagery” of the “natives,” it’s racist.

They could easily have included tribal people who are afraid of the tourists in the boats, or even a tour group of native people gathered to see the spectacle of Disney guests cruising down the river. There are ways to make things funny, interesting, or thrilling without resorting to racist tropes and stereotypes.

 

[JustInTime]

The “natives dancing” and throwing Spears is not a big loss. Hopefully they replace the spears with the attacking piranhas from California.. that’s a similar “beat” in the story and I think a more fun effect anyways.

But trader Sam should absolutely stay. Witch doctors and shrunken heads are real, there is nothing racist about them as far as I can figure.

I hope he stays too.

 

[_caleb]

Rather than listen I think we need to talk. When you replace one person’s opinion with another, no matter how well meaning you are saying that one person is right and another is wrong & also that some opinions have more value. Two way discussions help both sides understand the other which in turn helps us all to understand how we can change and grow.

Who said anything about “replacing one person’s opinion with another?” Weird.

“Listening to others“ doesn’t mean “have no opinion of your own,” it means allowing the opinions of others to inform the opinion you hold.

Everyone has an opinion, but an informed, thoughtful opinion absolutely has more value than an ignorant or prejudiced one.

I’m all for two-way conversations. That’s why I’m here.

 

[WillWrambles]

Can we talk about how ABSURD it was that they were all wearing masks in a video!?? Insane

They’re just setting a precedent.

Well, I guess that's that. Better ride HM as much as you can, folks-the hanging man in the stretching room will be next. Enjoy the classic attractions while you can, because in 10 years from now, WDW will be very different.

What does this have to do with anything? The Haunted Mansion does not include any ethnic stereotypes, as far as I know of anyway, and that is the main purpose of the jungle cruise refurb. Remove the ethnic stereotypes. Why the hell would they remove the hanging man? Because it’s scary? THE ENTIRE FIRST HALF IS MEANT TO BE SCARY. THAT’S THE POINT.

 

[_caleb]

Not sure the headhunters of the world are clamoring for for sensitivity. Again the DW TS is not black and seems to be a very neutral race.

Indications of the figure’s race include more than skin tone. Do you think anyone is going to look at that character and wonder if maybe he’s a European colonialist? Do you see the way he’s dressed?

I’m all for these updates, but African tribes peoples have/do exist. Do we pretend they don’t? Destroy any documentation that people were like that? I find that more racist.

No one is trying to destroy documentation that African tribes exist. That’s not the purpose of an AA in a theme park ride anyway.

While there were and are tribal people living in the jungles of the world, the vast majority are not violent savages or headhunters. Choosing these images to depict people who have historically not been treated fairly is, well, unfair.

 

[matt9112]

I posted this in another JC thread, what if they inserted realistic colonizer animatronics? Would that help you understand that just because it happened, doesn't mean it needs to be in the Jungle Cruise?

How Belgium cut off hands and arms, and killed over 15 million in Africa | Texto em inglês com áudio

The Belgium king Leopold II turned a huge piece of Africa into his rural estate, enslaved its people, and left a legacy of misery that lasts until today. Texto em inglês com áudio da Gazeta do Povo.

www.gazetadopovo.com.br

Thats not the story we are in....we (as the people on the boat) are not colonizing (in that context) we are venturing into the jungle like many famous explorers did. (The explorers themselves did not often colonize) what there goverments did after is another matter. Depicting a tribe that may have never seen any other humans ever as hostile is not a stretch....our boat loaded up with commisions and a charter from the East india trading company however is.

 

[wdwgreek]

I’m all for these updates, but African tribes peoples have/do exist. Do we pretend they don’t? Destroy any documentation that people were like that? I find that more racist.

African tribal people do exist, but fetishizing them and their culture as a butt of a joke is at it's base racist imperialist ideas. The joke in that section is based on how silly the primitive tribal people are dancing or dramatically look st the skulls those primitive cannibals killed the last crew. The implications is based on a derogatory depiction of the tribe people. Compare this to the native american village on the rivers of America. That tableau is a respectful and even reverent depiction of native american life. It doesn't mock their village. It is a great vignette that works and doesn't feel as dated or offensive.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

As for the scenes depicting the natives as angry and aggressive towards us, yeah, why wouldn’t they be? Pretty clear on the ride we’re breaking into their territory, we kind of deserved to get ambushed. I always saw it as the skippers were a nuisance to them, and that was part of the joke to the scene.

 

[SirLink]

cue the DISNEY'S RUINING MY CHILDHOOD JUNGLE CRUISE IS MY FAVORITE ATTRACTION THAT I JUST REMEMBERED EXISTED AND I AM SO ANGRY THAT DISNEY WOULD TOUCH THIS BELOVED CLASSIC THAT PEOPLE JUST NOW REMEMBERED EXISTED

(i'm a bit late on that but)

seriously people it's just adding a story and removing the more problematic scenes

There is nothing problematic. The only problematic thing is that is Disney has shown a lack of spine and giving into these spineless SJW crowd where anything that offends but be stopped.

 

[_caleb]

As for the scenes depicting the natives as angry and aggressive towards us, yeah, why wouldn’t they be? Pretty clear on the ride we’re breaking into their territory, we kind of deserved to get ambushed. I always saw it as the skippers were a nuisance to them, and that was part of the joke to the scene.

I agree that the “natives” would be angry and maybe even aggressive (though more probably scared) when a foreign group shows up, but what is the joke in that scenario?

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

"Mama don't whip little Buford. Mama don't pound on his head. Mama don't whip little Buford. I think you should shoot him instead."

What kind of message is that sending? That'll be picked up on soon. If it hasn't already.

 

[WillWrambles]

There is nothing problematic. The only problematic thing is that is Disney has shown a lack of spine and giving into these spineless SJW crowd where anything that offends but be stopped.

Nothing problematic about about portraying africans as savages? Are you actually kidding me? So far, this change has gotten nothing but cautious optimism from this board, even the folks who openly opposed changes to Splash are coming out in support of this. So tell me, sir, what does that say about you?