Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot

[MisterPenguin]

CM: “Yes, we do have that Marvel over there, but the rest of Marvel is at Universal.”

Well, technically, they wouldn't be calling it "Marvel" at all in EPCOT due to the licensing agreement. Just like Guardians Cosmic Rewind isn't being referred to as "Marvel."

The CM would have to avoid the M-word in relation to Marvel-based attractions and just say: "We have Guardians and Doctor Strange here, the other Marvel characters and rides are at Universal."

Now, all CMs should brace themselves for questions regarding the motorcycle coaster...

 

[MrPromey]

I know it's a separate discussion, but that ride is really one of the biggest misses in recent memory. They built a ride based on one of the most popular animated films of all time that can incorporate a massive aquarium with real sea life, and it's always a walk-on.

Epcot seems to be uniquely afflicted by an inability by WDI to design a good ride even when a good concept and healthy budget is available.

The problem here is, they didn't actually build a ride for one of the most popular animated films of all time.

Just like one of the other most popular animated films of all time represented in the same park, they took the cheap approach of reskinning an existing ride that, by itself, wasn't even considered a full attraction as originally conceived.*

I mean, reskinning can work. They did it with Nemo in DL and that was really well done (aside from capacity issues they chose not to address up front when they could have - again, being cheap, of course).

The closest we got to any of that was the one final scene at the very end of our Nemo.

Why, if they were going to go the cheap way they did, couldn't they have at least incorporated that effect into the full area that had windows to maximize the expensive and remarkable aspect of the original design which is all still there (being in/under the giant aquarium) rather than just covering up all those windows around both sides and the the top?

Frozen, likewise, is a compromise so it could be shoehorned into not only an inapropriate pavilion but a weird choice of ride system (a boat ride through a frozen land in a movie that mostly only had frozen-over water) which is why we have that awkward thing on the lift hill where you're going up and seeing what looks like the silhouette an elbow shape of pipe, right in the field of vision for that area at the top you're approaching - what the heck is that, anyway?

These are IPs that warranted major attractions somewhere and they were done the way JIYI was, more-or-less.

And now Frozen, we're stuck with, probably forever.

There might be hope for Nemo some day but with so much else that needs to be addressed, it'll probably stay as-is for the next 10-20 years, at least.

*At least with Frozen, they took the step of trying to eek out a little bit more ride space/time at the cost, somewhat ironically, of a previously more efficient load/unload setup on an attraction that had much lower capacity demands due to much lower guest demand, given the lack of built-in audience.

 

[MrPromey]

Relating to the new photos, is it just me or is this whole project looking to be small in scope?

And no, I don't just mean the two story Te Fiti that it appears will have a monorail slab as her scenic tropical skyline backdrop.

Seeing the plans for it and aerial shots of the location and how much they dug up, it made this thing seem like it was going to cover a lot of space and now with what has gone vertical and what appears to be the defining lines taking shape for where it will end and the center spine will start, it really doesn't seem like it's going to have all that much of a footprint to me.

Maybe seeing the Comunicore building go down to help make room and that entire area being a giant dirt pile so long made it seem to me this was going to be more substantial than it is, I guess?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Relating to the new photos, is it just me or is this whole project looking to be small in scope?

And no, I don't just mean the two story Te Fiti that it appears will have a monorail slab as her scenic tropical skyline backdrop.

Seeing the plans for it and aerial shots of the location and how much they dug up, it made this thing seem like it was going to cover a lot of space and now with what has gone vertical and what appears to be the defining lines taking shape for where it will end and the center spine will start, it really doesn't seem like it's going to have all that much of a footprint to me.

Maybe seeing the Comunicore building go down to help make room and that entire area being a giant dirt pile so long made it seem to me this was going to be more substantial than it is, I guess?

I have also been surprised by how small it looks. Maybe the experience on the ground will be different, but it does seem like a very minor attraction. I'm still kind of surprised they didn't use it as a walkway from the central spine to that side of the park, which seems like it would have made more sense than leaving a big area of vegetation facing the spine.

Frozen, likewise, is a compromise so it could be shoehorned into not only an inapropriate pavilion but a weird choice of ride system (a boat ride through a frozen land in a movie that mostly only had frozen-over water) which is why we have that awkward thing on the lift hill where you're going up and seeing what looks like the silhouette an elbow shape of pipe, right in the field of vision for that area at the top you're approaching - what the heck is that, anyway?

These are IPs that warranted major attractions somewhere and they were done the way JIYI was, more-or-less.

And now Frozen, we're stuck with, probably forever.

The extra layer of weirdness with the Frozen case is that they're now cloning the version retrofitted into Maelstrom as the Disney Frozen ride. I think I have a more positive opinion of that attraction than most people on here, but it does blow my mind a little that they are basing a whole land around that one ride that people will have to walk down a long promenade and around a big lake to get to at Walt Disney Studios Paris.

 

[UNCgolf]

The extra layer of weirdness with the Frozen case is that they're now cloning the version retrofitted into Maelstrom as the Disney Frozen ride. I think I have a more positive opinion of that attraction than most people on here, but it does blow my mind a little that they are basing a whole land around that one ride that people will have to walk down a long promenade and around a big lake to get to at Walt Disney Studios Paris.

I'm definitely not a fan of FEA, but that aside, it really is a baffling decision. It's a 4 minute long C ticket.

That doesn't make sense as the headlining attraction of a new land regardless of attraction quality. I think NRJ is an excellent C ticket, but adding Pandora somewhere else with NRJ as the headlining attraction would be laughably dumb.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Having seen it in person, the scale does seem off. The scale does feel small in person. Obviously, landscaping can help - but it's true.

That's even more true compared with the walk ways in World Nature which are staying. This feels very separated from the other two pavilions (speaking physically).

It really feels like it was designed in a vacuum without seeing how it feels on the ground. (Not saying that's actually true. Rather it just feels off.)

 

[flynnibus]

Relating to the new photos, is it just me or is this whole project looking to be small in scope?

I think all along this thing has been oversold as an attraction instead of just some minor element in the park.. like Storytime with Belle near the castle.... or pixel hollow in DL.

 

[IMDREW]

What are the chances of this actually open next summer?

 

[RobWDW1971]

I think all along this thing has been oversold as an attraction instead of just some minor element in the park.. like Storytime with Belle near the castle.... or pixel hollow in DL.

Agree - and if Pixie Hollow took years to build and caused half of Disneyland to be barricaded with construction walls during that time, it too would have received this response.

 

[CastAStone]

What are the chances of this actually open next summer?

They said late 2023 at D23. So I’m going to guess 10%. They did beat their promised timeline for SWGE by almost 3 months, but more typically things slip.

 

[MrPromey]

I have also been surprised by how small it looks. Maybe the experience on the ground will be different, but it does seem like a very minor attraction. I'm still kind of surprised they didn't use it as a walkway from the central spine to that side of the park, which seems like it would have made more sense than leaving a big area of vegetation facing the spine.

When they first announced it, that's what i thought it was going to be... or kind of an open area with different points of entry so it would act like a walkway in multiple directions for that side of the park with a side that faced the spine, offering multiple points of entry, there.

It didn't make sense to me when I thought that's what it was going to be but it made even less when I found out it wasn't.

The extra layer of weirdness with the Frozen case is that they're now cloning the version retrofitted into Maelstrom as the Disney Frozen ride. I think I have a more positive opinion of that attraction than most people on here, but it does blow my mind a little that they are basing a whole land around that one ride that people will have to walk down a long promenade and around a big lake to get to at Walt Disney Studios Paris.

As Disney fairytale dark rides go, it's not a slouch. I mean, compared to the classics like Peter Pan (especially the WDW one that never got the DL updated polish) and things like DL's Pinocchio or Alice in Wonderland... or our Pooh, it's definitely a step up and if something very similar had been purpose-built in the right location (minus a few of the retrofit quirks) it could have been a solid fantasyland addition - better than TLM panned out but they did what they did, instead.

 

[MrPromey]

One thing Disney always knocks out the park is artificial environments that are meant to look natural. They are king with this

Yes, if they ever decide to compete in the custom home koy pond market, they'll surely crush it.

 

[UNCgolf]

As Disney fairytale dark rides go, it's not a slouch. I mean, compared to the classics like Peter Pan (especially the WDW one that never got the DL updated polish) and things like DL's Pinocchio or Alice in Wonderland... or our Pooh, it's definitely a step up and if something very similar had been purpose-built in the right location (minus a few of the retrofit quirks) it could have been a solid fantasyland addition - better than TLM panned out but they did what they did, instead.

The AAs are an obvious step up, but really nothing else about the ride is any better than the old dark rides and it's actually worse in some areas (e.g. the barren surroundings in places where it kind of looks like they just opened the ride before finishing construction).

I think if they'd purpose-built a new, original attraction it would not resemble Frozen Ever After.

 

[MrPromey]

The AAs are an obvious step up, but really nothing else about the ride is any better than the old dark rides and it's actually worse in some areas (e.g. the barren surroundings in places where it kind of looks like they just opened the ride before finishing construction).

I think if they'd purpose-built a new, original attraction it would not resemble Frozen Ever After.

Oh, I’m sure it wouldn’t resemble it at all.

I just think the classic fairytale dark rides are a fairly low bar and I feel they did a better job with this retrofit than they did with The Little Mermaid which WAS purpose built, so, I don’t know.

For something meant to appeal to eight year old girls, I think it’s more than adequate but could have been better and should have been in a different spot.

For something meant to appeal to a twenty-something who feels one of these characters defines them as a person on the inside, probably not, though.

 

[UNCgolf]

For something meant to appeal to a twenty-something who feels one of these characters defines them as a person on the inside, probably not, though.

I'm not sure Disney can build a ride that would be good enough for people like that.

 

[CastAStone]

The extra layer of weirdness with the Frozen case is that they're now cloning the version retrofitted into Maelstrom as the Disney Frozen ride. I think I have a more positive opinion of that attraction than most people on here, but it does blow my mind a little that they are basing a whole land around that one ride

I would argue much of the reason the Frozen ride is good is because it’s a retrofit. You couldn’t convince me in a million years that 2010s WDI/TDO/Disney Parks and Resorts Worldwide would have approved a drop on a brand new book report dark ride. But they had little choice. And they absolutely pulled that scene off .

Winnie the Pooh and Frozen are (IMHO) the most fun book report rides because something happens. (Which is also why the Pooh ride is SO much better at WDW than DL)

 

[MisterPenguin]

They said late 2023 at D23. So I’m going to guess 10%. They did beat their promised timeline for SWGE by almost 3 months, but more typically things slip.

Hmmm... I wonder if they're talking calendar year (Oct/Nov/Dec) or fiscal year (July/Aug/Sep)...

 

[MrPromey]

Hmmm... I wonder if they're talking calendar year (Oct/Nov/Dec) or fiscal year (July/Aug/Sep)...

Also, don't forget Chinese new year is in late January so you have to consider that, too.

 

[UNCgolf]

I would argue much of the reason the Frozen ride is good is because it’s a retrofit. You couldn’t convince me in a million years that 2010s WDI/TDO/Disney Parks and Resorts Worldwide would have approved a drop on a brand new book report dark ride. But they had little choice. And they absolutely pulled that scene off .

Winnie the Pooh and Frozen are (IMHO) the most fun book report rides because something happens. (Which is also why the Pooh ride is SO much better at WDW than DL)

Off the top of my head it's one of the 5 worst attractions they've built this century at WDW (although I am probably forgetting some attractions that might be worse), so I disagree that the word "good" is an accurate description -- but regardless, the "drop" in FEA is probably the worst scene in the whole ride! I'm surprised you think they pulled it off.

Almost nothing about it works other than the fact the Elsa AA is good and people like the song Let It Go. It doesn't make sense in the context of the attraction's narrative (such that it is), and there's barely even a set there. It's just a balcony and then a bunch of projections of snowflakes.

 

[DCBaker]