Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot

[SilentWindODoom]

I think the problem with Epcot's theme is that it only works if it's actually relevant and it takes a lot to keep it relevant.

It's possible, but very expensive and takes a lot of effort to do so. Once you update the park once, it only stay relevant for a decade or so and then you need to update it again.

I think Disney is banking on the IP being timeless enough to keep Epcot relevant for awhile which it will. But after 15 years the problems will show more than they're showing now. If y'all think it's bad now....

The City of Tomorrow wasn't going to happen, so they built an ode to the World Fair. But I've never... known them to openly say this. They spoke with dramatic language about it being about the future. Which the back half of the part wasn't really involved in. Have they ever actually marketed the park as a World Fair? I don't remember actually hearing them address this, but perhaps I just missed it.

Without that knowledge, the park either felt like two very divergent themes (culture vs. science) or one theme of "education", which has been a drain on the park in popular consciousness. Meanwhile, marketing yourself as the future is a failing prospect. It's the Tomorrowland Problem. We all know it.

Ditching "Future" from the naming structure is smart, but they don't really need it in practice either. You can make the park evergreen by building attractions around the past and exhibits around the future. World of Motion and Spaceship Earth are largely historical attractions. The Living Seas was about nature and Living with the Land's early sections are about biodiversity and man's harnessing of it. Imagination is the spark that feeds all the rest of these things and is another evergreen idea.

Then you've got post-shows where you can put all the future stuff. Where it can be easily switched out without redoing the whole attraction. The greenhouses are actually in use employing the latest technology, so that effectively does the same thing. Energy was tricky, built with no exhibition space and on a topic where great strides and upheaval are currently happening. But it would be nice to address that with a concluding montage of different energy sources and built exhibits of some sort rather than Guardians. Or, you can even spend all of your energy covering the progress mankind has gone through to get to this point.

Yes, this means Horizons is sadly doomed either way. But it feels like it's possible for the front half of the park to work.

Of course, I'd love for original attractions like the Mansion and Pirates, but if the safety net of IP gets the company to move and address dead zones of the park, I don't mind. Of course, that's provided they can use the IP to teach the theme rather than just steamrolling over it. Nemo is a Fantasyland recap dark ride rather than teaching about fish. Frozen is... something, rather than using the IP to teach culture (which the Stave Church exhibits have done well). Ratatouille does involve the important cultural touchstone of food, although not as directly as could be possible. Nevertheless, it can be done well.

There were several versions but you get the idea:

View attachment 685317

This does look beautiful. Was this close to an actual possibility, or Blue Sky that hadn't been slashed yet? I'd never expected there to be development in the empty spaces, but this seems determined to actually use them.

Also, it kinda makes me giggle to see an actual splash pad given the derisive suggestion that this attraction is one.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Remember when doing difficult things was actually encouraged and admired? Someone apparently once said something like "We do these things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard". It was apparently a call to the determination of fellow citizens to strive for the best. Seems like you could swap in profitable and cheap for the the respective easy and hard choices in the quote at today's WDW.

 

[marni1971]

This does look beautiful. Was this close to an actual possibility,

It was one of the pitches. I know of 5, maybe 6 variations.

Here's another

 

[trainplane3]

It was one of the pitches. I know of 5, maybe 6 variations.

Here's another

View attachment 685616

They really picked the worst plan with the table building didn't they? All of these look substantially cheaper and better.

I don't even want to try to understand the company anymore.

 

[lazyboy97o]

They really picked the worst plan with the table building didn't they? All of these look substantially cheaper and better.

I don't even want to try to understand the company anymore.

They picked the one that would let Iger show off how he hired a starchitect.

 

[marni1971]

They really picked the worst plan with the table building didn't they? All of these look substantially cheaper and better.

I don't even want to try to understand the company anymore.

IMHO the worst without levelling the spine. Or building a hotel tower.

 

[HauntedPirate]

It was one of the pitches. I know of 5, maybe 6 variations.

Here's another

View attachment 685616

Are some of those... raised walkways? Specifically in the lower left quadrant of what you showed.

 

[WondersOfLife]

I think the problem with Epcot's theme is that it only works if it's actually relevant and it takes a lot to keep it relevant.

No it doesn't. You just need a creative team at least once every 10 years. Lol.

It's possible, but very expensive and takes a lot of effort to do so.

It's Disney. They are known for that. They should be able to handle it.

Once you update the park once, it only stay relevant for a decade or so and then you need to update it again.

Correct.

I think Disney is banking on the IP being timeless enough to keep Epcot relevant for awhile which it will.

Of course they are.

But after 15 years the problems will show more than they're showing now. If y'all think it's bad now....

Mmmmm.

 

[trainplane3]

IMHO the worst without levelling the spine. Or building a hotel tower.

I forgot all about the stupid hotel idea.

They picked the one that would let Iger show off how he hired a starchitect.

If you can't dream it, then hire someone else to do it.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Epcot a big mess full of fluff rides. It needs a big overhaul. They need to stick to science and technology and create rides such as Baymax San Fransokyo Institute of Technology campus building ride, Wreck it Ralph ride or land, Tron Land, Mars and Beyond Rover ride, Wall-e Axiom ride, Planes ride, Inside Out land, Zootopia Land, not Moana doesn't fit and go there.

......none of that sounds any better than the "overhaul" we have already gotten.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

The actual Nemo attraction doesn't even attempt to be educational, though. It's just attached to the aquarium (and it's terrible, but that's a separate discussion).

It would have been pretty easy to make it educational, too, considering it sits in a tunnel with windows looking into the aquarium with actual sea life. Instead they just covered those windows up.

I know it's a separate discussion, but that ride is really one of the biggest misses in recent memory. They built a ride based on one of the most popular animated films of all time that can incorporate a massive aquarium with real sea life, and it's always a walk-on.

Epcot seems to be uniquely afflicted by an inability by WDI to design a good ride even when a good concept and healthy budget is available.

 

[marni1971]

I forgot all about the stupid hotel idea.

The one out front was bad. This one was possibly even worse.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

The one out front was bad. This one was possibly even worse.

I am curious how they would have managed getting guests in and out while the park was closed. It doesn't seem like the idea was to place the hotel conveniently near an edge of the park.

 

[_caleb]

I am curious how they would have managed getting guests in and out while the park was closed. It doesn't seem like the idea was to place the hotel conveniently near an edge of the park.

Obviously they'd lock guests in and physically prevent them from leaving the building, like many here insist they must do with the Starcruiser.

 

[SilentWindODoom]

It was one of the pitches. I know of 5, maybe 6 variations.

Here's another

View attachment 685616

It being that early makes me feel the sickening feeling that as good as either were, the slashing would come. But I don't know how similar this project pre-COVID was to the original plan.

We're getting small bits and I would not want to overstep, but was a space to replace WoL a part of these proposals? I did see a "theatre" in the old Innoventions space, but I thought that was for a new entertainment option. Just curious if the desire for event space that was more central could have been a part of picking which proposal rather than just "fancy building we can get awards for"/"paid viewing platform for Harmonius".

I know it's a separate discussion, but that ride is really one of the biggest misses in recent memory. They built a ride based on one of the most popular animated films of all time that can incorporate a massive aquarium with real sea life, and it's always a walk-on.

Epcot seems to be uniquely afflicted by an inability by WDI to design a good ride even when a good concept and healthy budget is available.

I wonder if the new pathway leading to the pavilion as part of this project rather than it being at the dead end it is at now will affect crowd movement at all.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I wonder if the new pathway leading to the pavilion as part of this project rather than it being at the dead end it is at now will affect crowd movement at all.

I have my doubts. There has been a far more direct path right to Seas for 3 years now without that impact. But, we'll have to see.

 

[Vinnie Mac]

While I agree with this, isn't that kind of what they are doing? Using Moana to teach the water cycle, Nemo to teach about the ocean, etc. Is that not IP mixed with edutainment? I would say the only real outliers would be Guardians and Frozen. Even so, Guardians has some light edutainment in the queue. Frozen is the only one I really can't defend because at least the other World Showcase attractions are directly related to their respective countries. I think it's less a matter of the IP and more about the execution.

Disney absolutely can blend edutainment with IP. They just blatantly choose not to. Nemo and Journey of Water are good examples like you brought up and I wish they would follow this path more

 

[marni1971]

I am curious how they would have managed getting guests in and out while the park was closed. It doesn't seem like the idea was to place the hotel conveniently near an edge of the park.

Bridge over FW west. Entrance backstage between Land and Seas.

 

[marni1971]

We're getting small bits and I would not want to overstep, but was a space to replace WoL a part of these proposals?

Yes. it Would have been removed and replaced with more Marvel.

 

[mightynine]

Yes. it Would have been removed and replaced with more Marvel.

Boy, I would’ve felt for those EPCOT cast members.

CM: “Yes, we do have that Marvel over there, but the rest of Marvel is at Universal.”

Guest: “But my kid wants the other Marvel! You are ruining our vacation!” *stomps off*

Other Guest: “Man, what got them in a huff? Anyway, sorry to bother you, but could you tell me how to get to Harry Potter’s castle? I couldn’t find it in the other parks and it’s our last day!”