Journey Into Imagination With Figment To Be Replaced With An Inside Out Attraction?

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
To be fair, and to kind of cut this silly disagreement over taste at it’s knees, I feel personally that “Lady and the Tramp” has been a pretty dead property, and is far more problematic in it’s original form than either the Muppets or Figment (casual racism, re-enforcement of classic gender roles, lack of plot, fairly obscure characters), but they recently corrected many of it’s flaws in an admittedly uninspired remake and are selling tons of merch.

I see no reason why they wouldn’t give it a shot with a relatively blank slate character like Figment OR endlessly re-purposeable character like the Muppets.
Dude...have you ever seen The Muppet Show? Let's see: misogyny, fat-shaming, stereotyping, puppets blowing each other up, beating each other up, mean-spiritedness...I can see why Disney stopped releasing more seasons of that show. Although I wish they would. It'd open a lot of eyes about how PC the Muppets in those days REALLY were.

As for the original version of Lady and the Tramp...it's a masterpiece. The "problems" in it are only there for whiny weenies who want to see them. Thankfully, most people do not. And it's so hypocritical. If the Siamese cats are racist caricatures, why aren't Tony and Joe? Because they're Caucasian and so it's okay to stereotype Italians?
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Uh, yes I do. And you don't know what Disney's future plans for Dreamfinder might be, but you've already written him off. In favor of a dated faded unprofitable non-Disney IP. As for the "filthy little Muppet fans", there aren't enough of them to raise enough of a stink to scare me off, as the boxoffice returns and ratings of their idols' most recent attempts at revival amply prove. Yeesh, seriously, dude, aren't even just a little bit ashamed to keep defending those things? Cultivate some taste, willya?
No, I am not going to bend over from personal attacks and gaslighting from you. Complaining about Muppets for reasons that go beyond your sense of Disney puritanism for years and years to the point of gaining a reputation of being a contrarian tryhard is one thing, but attacking someone's fandom legitimacy for even suggesting the idea of a compromise between two things they like and going "UNGA BUNGA, YOU CAN ONLY PICK ONE TRIBE" in a hypothetical situation brought up by something that could very well be bus driver hearsay is over the line. Most of my Disney fandom is interweaved with my childhood interest in the Muppets and my first exposures to Epcot and WDW were seeing the Figment bank at a cousin's house and watching "Muppets at Walt Disney World" on Disney Channel's Triple Feature Friday. Getting to WDW the first time in 2000 and seeing the hot mess that was JIYI, seeing what had come before online, and the small factor of the Goelz recast basically crystallized Figment as my favorite Disney character. I was actively invested in Save Disney specifically because of what Eisner did to Figment, Dreamfinder and Epcot to the point of writing convoluted fanfic. Being a Henson junkie as a kid also lead me to Star Wars, kaiju eiga, and splintering onward into other sci-fi and fantasy worlds. Books on Henson's career lead me to take an interest in the history of other stuff I liked, getting me deeper into animation and park history. Henson, Disney and Nintendo all were a bedrock for my tastes and I think I cultivated it fine. Henson's little sparks found their way to a lot of creatives and if you're actively denying what Jim did and why people still care about these characters, even in spite of their stumblings, maybe you need to cultivate some taste.
There you go again, dissing an original Disney creation. It's really sad that you can't discern the difference between Figment and Eisner's unfortunate puppet acquisition. Here's a clue: Figment actually sells merchandise.
Sarcasm genius. Twisting your words, not mine, to make a point that you could say they are in the same boat. And Figment is only a big fish in a small, single park pond, while Muppets and every other non-park brand can find plenty of other licensees to sell product outside the parks.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
if you're actively denying what Jim did and why people still care about these characters, even in spite of their stumblings, maybe you need to cultivate some taste.
Look, at this point he is just 100% trolling. He has no clue. Just read his post where he says the muppet show was completely non PC because of fat shaming and stereotyping. Then goes on to say lady and the tramp is a masterpiece and the PC issues in that movie are for "weenies". It tells you everything you need to know about them. No logical, or sane person for that matter, has that kind of hate for an ip.
 

gustaftp

Well-Known Member
It was ditched at Disneyland where regulars were ready for something new. WDW has a different audience combined of mostly out-of-towners, and MuppetVision 3D has had a staying power there that HISTA and other 3D films have not had.

Muppets have had a variety of films spanning generations in various stages of popularity. The Muppets are timeless and appeal to Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z who have each had them as a part of the cultural lexicon with their own relevant films and TV series in each generation without trying to appeal on nostalgia alone.


You kinda contradicted yourself there, pardner. The puppets are timeless and appeal to Boomers, etc. etc. etc. except in California?

This is getting sad, dude.
I'm not contradicting myself. You are cherry-picking what I said to fit your obviously biased agenda.

WDW has a different audience than DL. DL is mostly locals and APs who go to the park frequently. The same movie (regardless of what it is) could get stale being on repeat if you go to the same place often enough.

WDW is mostly vacationers who don't get to watch Muppet Vision frequently. It is more difficult to get tired of something you don't see often (or only once) and doesn't obviously date itself like Captain EO or HISTA.

What's sad, dude, is your level of dishonesty.
 
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FigmentFan82

Well-Known Member
At this point, and I usually do a good job of keeping up with Imagination related rumors and gossip, the firmest things we've heard with regards to the future of the pavilion is that there's multiple proposals, start on the project would be at the earliest 2023, and that there are some "imaginative" ideas being tossed around (with that last one clearly having winks attached, for whatever it's worth)

As for straight speculation and wishful thinking, my current favorite armchair is Figment & Dreamfinder meets Mystic Manor basic structure/tech.
 

Disneyson

Well-Known Member
Dude...have you ever seen The Muppet Show? Let's see: misogyny, fat-shaming, stereotyping, puppets blowing each other up, beating each other up, mean-spiritedness...I can see why Disney stopped releasing more seasons of that show. Although I wish they would. It'd open a lot of eyes about how PC the Muppets in those days REALLY were.

As for the original version of Lady and the Tramp...it's a masterpiece. The "problems" in it are only there for whiny weenies who want to see them. Thankfully, most people do not. And it's so hypocritical. If the Siamese cats are racist caricatures, why aren't Tony and Joe? Because they're Caucasian and so it's okay to stereotype Italians?
You’re absolutely right. I didn’t say that the Siamese Cats nor Tony & Joe were the problem. I was saying how Disney re-purposed them and “edited” the story.

The point I was making was that Disney has been largely ignoring the history of their IP and re-making then in order to capitalize on the merchandise opportunities. The point is, history doesn’t matter. If they think Kermit or Figment is profitable as an idea or a cute icon, they will re-edit their story and re-boot them.

I’m not talking about their history, and neither am I talking about taste (whether you think something is a classic or not). It’s about money, and what looks good on a bag, and what people will buy. Just look at Dumbo. HUGE resurgence in China, but more because of the Merch than the movie. But a movie is an excuse to push it and get more dollars out of it.
 

General Mayhem

Well-Known Member
Gurl this argument has such a ridiculous and tumultuous energy that I'm now seeing people complain about it on other websites.
 
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brb1006

Well-Known Member
You mean you obsessively tracked down some of my old posts somewhere. You really need to get a life, furry. And Micechat is a bore.

Seriously, the way you guys react to someone who doesn't worship at the foam rubber and felt puppet shrine is pitiful. My main beef with the puppets is that their purchase started this whole cycle of Disney buying played-out non-Disney franchises and sticking the damn things in the parks. Think I'm wrong to resent that? Guardians of the Galaxy in Epcot, anyone? Get a grip.
I didn't track down your old posts, I just decided to check out a random Micechat thread for historical context for older attractions and comparing then and now.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
So to bring the topic back to Journey Into Imagination. Has anyone checked out the "Figment" Marvel Comics (especially the two Graphic Novels that combined all the stories) that came out years ago besides me? This thread sure would be great to talk about the comics.








Anyone?


It's the only thing Dreamfinder and Figment related in a very long time.
 
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Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I've got an idea what to do with the Grand Arts Theater after the puppets are evicted from it: replace them with a mash-up 3D movie of Star vs. The Forces of Evil, Amphibia, and the Owl House. Three great NEW shows that are Disney-created, original, and pretty entertaining, PLUS kids like them. Win-win!
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Look, at this point he is just 100% trolling. He has no clue. Just read his post where he says the muppet show was completely non PC because of fat shaming and stereotyping. Then goes on to say lady and the tramp is a masterpiece and the PC issues in that movie are for "weenies". It tells you everything you need to know about them. No logical, or sane person for that matter, has that kind of hate for an ip.
Lady and the Tramp is a masterpiece. The fuss over the Siamese cats is idiotic. The muppet show, by contrast, is anything but a masterpiece. It was a fad, and it was extremely mean-spirited and violent. Perhaps you can tell us why Disney hasn't released the rest of the seasons. Let's hear your "logic".
 

TheVisionarySoul

Well-Known Member
What the heck is wrong with you people? Muppets still make money, Figment still makes money. I posted a darn potential storyline that I know was a real thing for a while in WDI and this is how you decide to take it? By some kinda macho fight between Muppets and Figment and somehow Dreamfinder? Geez. You guys need to get a life, that’s not what this is about.

Let’s look at some actual facts:

Figment only exists in Epcot. Very rarely do you see his merch outside the park, and even then it doesn’t do that well. Figment does not sell as well as you might expect, simply because very few people outside of the fan community know who he is or even care to know.

Dreamfinder is even lesser known. He is basically a dead character, and he’s not coming back. You can enjoy references to the old days and Ron Schneider can write another book about him (although honestly he did so many other fun things in his career besides Dreamfinder, I’m not sure why he would write about the dragon again), but that’s not going to bring him back. Even Tony Baxter has admitted the ride never performed up to expectations. You’re glorifying a ride and character that doesn’t appear to have much relevance anymore, and everyone, including its creators, know it. So give up on him already.

Finally, the Muppets. I don’t have a clue if the project concept I shared is even alive anymore. For all I know that concept might be dead. But what I do know is that there is a huge push to make a successful Muppets show again for Disney+. That’s more than I can say about Figment and Dreamfinder, who’s comic book isn’t even selling well. And that’s just a comic book. No one in the company seems to be willing to invest in Figment and Dreamfinder. But the Muppets, they have a worldwide following, thanks to Jim Henson, and actually a surprisingly well-received amount of Pizza-Hut commercials years back. If you’re going to put one against the other, the Muppets will ALWAYS come out above Dreamfinder and Figment in terms of Worldwide awareness and popularity. Anyone who argues otherwise is a complete fool and is out-of-touch with any demographic. And the fact that Disney+ is about to do a show about the Muppets proves that.

But that’s not why we are here, we’re here to discuss the future of the Imagination pavilion. Which is in limbo. Which has multiple concepts for replacements. Which no one seems to be talking about which one has been settled upon. So for the sake of Pete, please stop bickering about some insane Muppets vs Dreamfinder & Figment war. Your own opinions are irrelevant. The facts are apparent, and I’ve described what has been happening. Now just wait and see what happens until we have more news about this project.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
What the heck is wrong with you people? Muppets still make money, Figment still makes money. I posted a darn potential storyline that I know was a real thing for a while in WDI and this is how you decide to take it? By some kinda macho fight between Muppets and Figment and somehow Dreamfinder? Geez. You guys need to get a life, that’s not what this is about.

Let’s look at some actual facts:

Figment only exists in Epcot. Very rarely do you see his merch outside the park, and even then it doesn’t do that well. Figment does not sell as well as you might expect, simply because very few people outside of the fan community know who he is or even care to know.

Dreamfinder is even lesser known. He is basically a dead character, and he’s not coming back. You can enjoy references to the old days and Ron Schneider can write another book about him (although honestly he did so many other fun things in his career besides Dreamfinder, I’m not sure why he would write about the dragon again), but that’s not going to bring him back. Even Tony Baxter has admitted the ride never performed up to expectations. You’re glorifying a ride and character that doesn’t appear to have much relevance anymore, and everyone, including its creators, know it. So give up on him already.

Finally, the Muppets. I don’t have a clue if the project concept I shared is even alive anymore. For all I know that concept might be dead. But what I do know is that there is a huge push to make a successful Muppets show again for Disney+. That’s more than I can say about Figment and Dreamfinder, who’s comic book isn’t even selling well. And that’s just a comic book. No one in the company seems to be willing to invest in Figment and Dreamfinder. But the Muppets, they have a worldwide following, thanks to Jim Henson, and actually a surprisingly well-received amount of Pizza-Hut commercials years back. If you’re going to put one against the other, the Muppets will ALWAYS come out above Dreamfinder and Figment in terms of Worldwide awareness and popularity. Anyone who argues otherwise is a complete fool and is out-of-touch with any demographic. And the fact that Disney+ is about to do a show about the Muppets proves that.

But that’s not why we are here, we’re here to discuss the future of the Imagination pavilion. Which is in limbo. Which has multiple concepts for replacements. Which no one seem to be talking about which one has been settled upon. So for the sake of Pete, please stop bickering about some insane Muppets vs Dreamfinder & Figment war. Your own opinions are irrelevant. The facts are apparent, and I’ve described what has been happening. Now just wait and see what happens until we have more news about this project.

The Muppets do not make money for Disney. The last movie and the TV show LOST money. And if you want to compare them to Figment - Figment sells a hell of a lot more merchandise in WDW than the Muppets do, duh. And that's despite the fact that his attraction has been degraded to the point that it sucks.

Dreamfinder and Figment are a special part of WDW, and were originals created just for that park. That's one of the things that make them memorable, and worthy of resurrection. Plus they're Disney creations, and damn good ones, and that alone gives them a cred that the puppets will never have. As for the new Disney+ puppet show - come on, it's unscripted filler at best, barely a show, probably only exists because Disney+ needs as much programming as it can get to fill up its schedule. Nothing remotely impressive about that. If the puppets are so darn popular worldwide, how come the only Disney park they appear in is in WDW, and not in WDW Paris, or Shanghai, or Japan? They got kicked OUT of Disneyland (and nobody cared), remember?
 
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